Gauntlet: Kain VS. Warcraft

Originally posted by Lich King
About the order of the encountered, Burning Thought, I placed Medivh after Archimonde because from my perspective, Medivh would most likely defeat Archimonde. Not for that reason alone, but Medivh is a better foe against Kain than Archimonde for all reasons out there except endurance. Medivh manipulates mist, he sense people where they are and where they move before they even do so. He does not even have to be turned towards Kain to know what he's doing, how he's moving or what spell he will be casting.

Let us not forget that Medivh was able to reflect Khadgar's instant blast while fighting Garona without even looking at Khadgar. Not Archimonde nor even Lich King has shown this level of perception.

In fact, the only reason I have Medivh before Lich King in this fight is because I think Kain Vs. Lich King would be the most epic encounter of these. He will probably have more trouble with Archimonde or Medivh than Lich King, but the LK Vs. Kain encounter would be one to go into history.

Don't jump the gun so quickly. Medivh can regulate and control magic as well.

I dont think hes as hard a foe as Archimonde ot be beaten by Kain, I mean Kain could likely physically defeat Medivh and is very quick when using teleportation, Mediv will see nothing but his own death if he can see attacks before they happen because as far as ime aware, the dude couldnt really do much if Kain appeared and slashed him within less than seconds.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Hehe, do you think he got so enormous by lifting weights? 😛

LK, I thought he said regulate infinite amounts of magic? Or is it a hyperbole?

Anyway, I still think Archimonde is the most powerful entity on this list.

EDIT: That video of Kain snapping necks made me lol.

No i meant Kain could infnitly increase his own magic because he is the regulator, he could make his magic level whicever he wants because he is the regulator and so he is the one rules out whos magic is what level as regulation means.

Its similiar to regulation against other beings, if you regulate someting you govern and control it thus unless the being itself is a regulator who can govern and rule the magic of other beings like perhaps Malygos is (ime only guessing, since although Malygis is the aspect of magic, he is regulated ime sure by Norgannon, the Titan of magic who is above him) wheras Kain IS the prime regulator.

Originally posted by Lich King
Most powerful is a matter of relativity.

Now, what magic is not "infinite"? In Warcraft, all magic wielders carry infinite magic and Medivh regulates, manipulates and controls magic without breaking the slightest amount of sweat. I would not know if the infinite amount of magic part is hyperbole or not, but it will make no difference in his fight against Medivh. Medivh is the better spellcaster of the two, and on contruare to Kain can tell every move his foe makes before he does it.

No i mean regulating others, does he regulate how other beings can use magic? can he rule out who he wants to use magic or how another being uses magic across a planetary scale like the balance guardians do in LOK?

I mean all magic users can control and regulate magic itself, but what ime saying is that Kain can regulate others and rule over their powers over magic, so theres nothing really stopping him from making all beings magical in this gauntlet inept at using the magic, or simply making them magically powerless. I mean Kain is literally a governer of magic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont think hes as hard a foe as Archimonde ot be beaten by Kain, I mean Kain could likely physically defeat Medivh and is very quick when using teleportation, Mediv will see nothing but his own death if he can see attacks before they happen because as far as ime aware, the dude couldnt really do much if Kain appeared and slashed him within less than seconds.

Medivh blocked an instant blast before it happened. He would dodge Kain's teleport attack with the same swiftness he had when he fought Khadgar, Garona and Lothar. He starts moving before Kain even knows he is moving.
Getting up close is as futile by Kain as trying to fight him from a distance. Last person to have come up close to Medivh in hostile manner recieved a simple touch, aged 40 years, was drain of all his bodyfluid, was cut of his magic and came to the brink of death, in torment beyond comprehension.

Only with cunning would Kain be able to defeat Medivh, and even that unlikely. Not melee nor spells will save him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No i mean regulating others, does he regulate how other beings can use magic? can he rule out who he wants to use magic or how another being uses magic across a planetary scale like the balance guardians do in LOK?

I mean all magic users can control and regulate magic itself, but what ime saying is that Kain can regulate others and rule over their powers over magic, so theres nothing really stopping him from making all beings magical in this gauntlet inept at using the magic, or simply making them magically powerless.

Just like Kain, Medivh gets to decide who can and who can not use magic in his presence. He is the supreme force of Azeroth and could singlehandedly with ease have ended War of the Ancients, had he been there, in a very short amount of time. If what you are saying is true, and Kain can regulate magic infinitely, then it would be two unstoppable forces clashing with eachother. For the sake of debate, I would suggest we exclude magic regulation from both sides, or this will get us nowhere.

Originally posted by Lich King
Medivh blocked an instant blast before it happened. He would dodge Kain's teleport attack with the same swiftness he had when he fought Khadgar, Garona and Lothar. He starts moving before Kain even knows he is moving.
Getting up close is as futile by Kain as trying to fight him from a distance. Last person to have come up close to Medivh in hostile manner recieved a simple touch, aged 40 years, was drain of all his bodyfluid, was cut of his magic and came to the brink of death, in torment beyond comprehension.

Only with cunning would Kain be able to defeat Medivh, and even that unlikely. Not melee nor spells will save him.

Just like Kain, Medivh gets to decide who can and who can not use magic in his presence. He is the supreme force of Azeroth and could singlehandedly with ease have ended War of the Ancients, had he been there, in a very short amount of time. If what you are saying is true, and Kain can regulate magic infinitely, then it would be two unstoppable forces clashing with eachother. For the sake of debate, I would suggest we exclude magic regulation from both sides, or this will get us nowhere.

But Kain could simply hold Mediv solid with telekinetic power, and remove him of his staff, is the staff not also a important artifact for a guardian of Trisfal? And I think Kains shield powered by his own infnite magic would save him from Medivs attacks, allowing Kain to attack with impunity.

Can you show me some evidence for this please? I mean as powerful as Mediv is, ive never heard that he can regulate other beings magic just by being in their presence, I mean I cant imagine him simply appearing before Archimonde nad Malygos and suddenly they are powerless. Kain is supreme magic over a planetary area, so technically Kain is more powerful in the regulation department.

Well, I can't really imagine Kain stepping in and shutting down Archimonde's powers either. I can't see Medivh doing that to him either.

Another curious thing I noticed is that Kain doesn't use any of this regulation thing when fighting that guy with immolation. Kain hid behind statues instead.

Kain only gains the power at the end of Defiance when Raziel cures Kains inner corruption and restores Kains soul so he couldnt have, Blood omen 2 kain was also the weakest kind of Kain.

furthermore, I dont think Magnus (the guy doing immolation) was using magic, he was using some sort of mind power.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But Kain could simply hold Mediv solid with telekinetic power, and remove him of his staff, is the staff not also a important artifact for a guardian of Trisfal? And I think Kains shield powered by his own infnite magic would save him from Medivs attacks, allowing Kain to attack with impunity.

Can you show me some evidence for this please? I mean as powerful as Mediv is, ive never heard that he can regulate other beings magic just by being in their presence, I mean I cant imagine him simply appearing before Archimonde nad Malygos and suddenly they are powerless. Kain is supreme magic over a planetary area, so technically Kain is more powerful in the regulation department.

Medivh's staff has no effect on his powers at all. He is as powerful with, as without it. And a telekinetic grab goes both ways, you know. With Medivh being a quicker thinker than Kain, I would dare claim it would rather go the other way and Medivh traps Kain with a telekinetic grab.

How do you determine his spell more powerful? Medivh's spell may not reach planetary level, but that does not mean it is not as strong. Why can you not see Medivh prevent Malygos and Archimonde's magic, while you so strongly believe Kain can? Merely because they are lesser Gods and Medivh is a human with magic? If so, you are forgetting that Malfurion defeated Archimonde and they are in way different leagues. I am not certain how magic works in LoK, but the "One Above All" rule does not apply in Warcraft. Medivh must not be above his target in pure power to cancel him out. It is not how magic in Warcraft works.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain only gains the power at the end of Defiance when Raziel cures Kains inner corruption and restores Kains soul so he couldnt have, Blood omen 2 kain was also the weakest kind of Kain.

furthermore, I dont think Magnus (the guy doing immolation) was using magic, he was using some sort of mind power.

Pyrokinesis?

Originally posted by Lich King
Medivh's staff has no effect on his powers at all. He is as powerful with, as without it. And a telekinetic grab goes both ways, you know. With Medivh being a quicker thinker than Kain, I would dare claim it would rather go the other way and Medivh traps Kain with a telekinetic grab.

How do you determine his spell more powerful? Medivh's spell may not reach planetary level, but that does not mean it is not as strong. Why can you not see Medivh prevent Malygos and Archimonde's magic, while you so strongly believe Kain can? Merely because they are lesser Gods and Medivh is a human with magic? If so, you are forgetting that Malfurion defeated Archimonde and they are in way different leagues. I am not certain how magic works in LoK, but the "One Above All" rule does not apply in Warcraft. Medivh must not be above his target in pure power to cancel him out. It is not how magic in Warcraft works.

being a quicker thinker doesnt mean he can do it quicker, it would still take an action, also funny, ive not seen or heard of Mediv able to do TK as well, although its another thing Kains shield protects against, physical.

But where does it say Mediv cancels all magic out? or that Mediv can manipulate/control other beings magical power? ive never heard it before.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Pyrokinesis?

perhaps yes, a mind attack that explodes people with fire, it was certainly not magic, Magnus is a mentally deranged vampire who has never used magic even when he was sane and has never studied it, I think he says something about his mind during his attacks but yes his mind is the source which interestingly could be a useful ability against Mediv, its not magical in nature so it is not easily removed or stopped and its not a projectile or blast so it cannot be dodjed.

Also ime wondering to myself, LichKing when you say Mediv has precognition of some kind, that doesnt mean Medivh knows and understands what to do in each situation. For example if he precogs Kain raising his hands, Kain could be doing TK or immolate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
being a quicker thinker doesnt mean he can do it quicker, it would still take an action, also funny, ive not seen or heard of Mediv able to do TK as well, although its another thing Kains shield protects against, physical.

But where does it say Mediv cancels all magic out? or that Mediv can manipulate/control other beings magical power? ive never heard it before.

perhaps yes, a mind attack that explodes people with fire, it was certainly not magic, Magnus is a mentally deranged vampire who has never used magic even when he was sane and has never studied it, I think he says something about his mind during his attacks but yes his mind is the source which interestingly could be a useful ability against Mediv, its not magical in nature so it is not easily removed or stopped and its not a projectile or blast so it cannot be dodjed.

Also ime wondering to myself, LichKing when you say Mediv has precognition of some kind, that doesnt mean Medivh knows and understands what to do in each situation. For example if he precogs Kain raising his hands, Kain could be doing TK or immolate.

Medivh is quick as in: While fighting Garona, he not only has the time to while attacking Garona, reacted, turned around and deflect Khadgar's instant blast but also countered Khadgar with his own. Narrator stated that Khadgar knew his only chance was with an instant blast since Medivh was focusing attention on Garona, or it would take too long, and yet Medivh was quick enough to deflect the blast after it was shot. He was basically turning the moment Khadgar blasted and still had time to block the attack. Medivh is quick. Very quick. In fact, he comes out quicker than any move I have ever seen Kain do.

TK is a very basic ability in Warcraft. Medivh has used it at very many occasions. Not that he would have had to, in order for us to know he could do it. Minor mages can use TK in Warcraft. Khadgar at utmost rookie-level could wield the power of TK.

It says in Last Guardian, pretty much in exact words that if Medivh does not want you to be able to use spells, you will not be able to use spells. He put these words to actions occasionally as well, but the one that left greatest impact was probably his use of it on Khadgar during the encounter in the end of the book. He simple removed Khadgar's right to use magic and then went on his merry way and defeated Lothar and Garona.

As for Medivh's ability to forsee an attack, it has never been stated, but all evidence point at that he would know what ability to come next: 1. He can sense the future, 2. He can read minds, 3. He will probably know more about Kain's pattern of fighting than Kain himself does the moment the fight starts.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But its impossible AND illogical to use mechanics put in place for players and balance to use in a real situation where such would not be present, but as i said to Artificial, ime not against him using it, ime simply saying its impossible to gauge its real power from "it does 500 damage" to Kain.

its obvious all the time that Kains mist form has some great power over his control otherwise while exploring all these cold windy landscapes he has done in the LOk games and used mist, or otherwise obviously windy battlements like he does at the beginning of Defiance, he would have been blown over the castle walls and lost to the winds many a time, but this does not happen, this also shows Kains mist form in Blood omen 2:

YouTube video

he can stay this form indefinatley and furthermore the mist form he takes is not blown away either or deformed, its obvious he has control over the form without a doubt. But ime sure a Hurricane would throw around many a solid object as well 😉 so mist form has nothing to with a hurricane.

hm ime not sure about that, since its like weather, you wouldnt say Finger of death if fired in a thunder storm would strike a rain drop and turn the rain drop inside out would you?

You asked about it and I elaborated on it no more and no less, I then added that in a RPG conflict the Finger of Death delivered from Archimonde given his level of power would be near impossible to defend against.

But have a Strong Force of Wind EVER been directed towards Kain? Not to my knowlegde, Kain has never been caught in the middle of a Hurrican while in his mist form has he? No so how you can compare the winds in the mountains to the force of a Hurrican seems strange to me. Also somethings that I remember from BO2 is that Kain needs to be in a mist to attain the form and that if he moves infront of a enemy the mist form will vanish.

I'm fully aware of that I'm just speculating if Kain will be capable of holding his form together caught in a Hurrican a Hurrican that delivers roughly 40 m/s. Just like you from my point of view are Speculating that Kain can shut down Archimondes and Medivh etc's magical energy.

No I wouldn't but if Kain is as good as keeping his form together, as you claim then a Magical Attack focused on it would produce a effect.

Originally posted by Lich King
Medivh is quick as in: While fighting Garona, he not only has the time to while attacking Garona, reacted, turned around and deflect Khadgar's instant blast but also countered Khadgar with his own. Narrator stated that Khadgar knew his only chance was with an instant blast since Medivh was focusing attention on Garona, or it would take too long, and yet Medivh was quick enough to deflect the blast after it was shot. He was basically turning the moment Khadgar blasted and still had time to block the attack. Medivh is quick. Very quick. In fact, he comes out quicker than any move I have ever seen Kain do.

TK is a very basic ability in Warcraft. Medivh has used it at very many occasions. Not that he would have had to, in order for us to know he could do it. Minor mages can use TK in Warcraft. Khadgar at utmost rookie-level could wield the power of TK.

It says in Last Guardian, pretty much in exact words that if Medivh does not want you to be able to use spells, you will not be able to use spells. He put these words to actions occasionally as well, but the one that left greatest impact was probably his use of it on Khadgar during the encounter in the end of the book. He simple removed Khadgar's right to use magic and then went on his merry way and defeated Lothar and Garona.

As for Medivh's ability to forsee an attack, it has never been stated, but all evidence point at that he would know what ability to come next: 1. He can sense the future, 2. He can read minds, 3. He will probably know more about Kain's pattern of fighting than Kain himself does the moment the fight starts.

Do you mind giving me the exact quote and page of where you read this please? perhaps just the paragraph or two that the sentence of Mediv battle is.

Yes but not every form of TK is useful, some TK simply moves small objects like rocks and pebbles, some TK can hold a person but not move their weapons or objects, Kain has shown to be able to remove objects nad hold a person and even chain their armsin the air with TK so casting a spell with any real direction would be near impossilble.

But this could be hyperbole, the sentence you just gave me is certainly hyperbole and if his very presence stops magic, then Khadgor nor any of those spellcasters your saying he battled would be able to use magic would they, so its obviously flawed...

Also Kain has shown resistance to mind powers in his weakest form, including mind control itself....ime not sure current Kain would likely be so easily predicted.

Originally posted by Utrigita
You asked about it and I elaborated on it no more and no less, I then added that in a RPG conflict the Finger of Death delivered from Archimonde given his level of power would be near impossible to defend against.

But have a Strong Force of Wind EVER been directed towards Kain? Not to my knowlegde, Kain has never been caught in the middle of a Hurrican while in his mist form has he? No so how you can compare the winds in the mountains to the force of a Hurrican seems strange to me. Also somethings that I remember from BO2 is that Kain needs to be in a mist to attain the form and that if he moves infront of a enemy the mist form will vanish.

I'm fully aware of that I'm just speculating if Kain will be capable of holding his form together caught in a Hurrican a Hurrican that delivers roughly 40 m/s. Just like you from my point of view are Speculating that Kain can shut down Archimondes and Medivh etc's magical energy.

No I wouldn't but if Kain is as good as keeping his form together, as you claim then a Magical Attack focused on it would produce a effect.

A hurricance would knock Kain off his feet and sweep him up as well as a lot of characters in fiction whether he was in mist form or not so its not really reelvent, and wheres most of these characters going to get a hurricane from anyway...

The mist form vanishes only when the enemy strikes you, but enemies can see the mist and attack kain if he stands in front of them.

Ime not speculating, its a fact he could, theres few resistance in any universe that has enough evidence to suggest you can stop Kain from simply turning off your magic like you would a tap, hes just a governer of magic.

He keeps his form as mist together so its not blown about by a slight breeze fairly solid, that doesnt meant a blast would do anything but disturb the mist, not that this is really a releven enough part of the debate, whether or not Kains mist is going to be blown about by Tornados and hurricanes every time he tries to take the form or directly hit by the red bolt, the fact o the matter is, its an extremely quick move that may be useful in defence but in light of Kains magic nullification Archimonde doing spells will certainly be unlikely.

Originally posted by Burning thought
A hurricance would knock Kain off his feet and sweep him up as well as a lot of characters in fiction whether he was in mist form or not so its not really reelvent, and wheres most of these characters going to get a hurricane from anyway...

The mist form vanishes only when the enemy strikes you, but enemies can see the mist and attack kain if he stands in front of them.

Ime not speculating, its a fact he could, theres few resistance in any universe that has enough evidence to suggest you can stop Kain from simply turning off your magic like you would a tap, hes just a governer of magic.

He keeps his form as mist together so its not blown about by a slight breeze fairly solid, that doesnt meant a blast would do anything but disturb the mist, not that this is really a releven enough part of the debate, whether or not Kains mist is going to be blown about by Tornados and hurricanes every time he tries to take the form or directly hit by the red bolt, the fact o the matter is, its an extremely quick move that may be useful in defence but in light of Kains magic nullification Archimonde doing spells will certainly be unlikely.

Summon them? Cenarius can summon one effortless, so can regular druids in World of Warcraft.

So the mist form that you claims would protect Kain from a magical impact vanishes when it got hit by a sword?

Really? Then you wouldn't mind giving me a example of him cutting of the magical power to a mage in LoK, lets not include the Guardians because we already know that he can control theirs, what I would like is proof that he can take any random sorcerer ore mage and cut off his power, You see I see a entirely different situation between a Guardian and Archimonde, A Guardian draws his power directly from the Balance Guardian and the Balance Guardian draws his powers directly from Nosgoth's pillars, that is the magic that Kain is in control of, Archimonde on the other hand draws his magical energy from the Twisted Nether ore from Himself (not quite sure but I'm sure that he doesn't draw it from Nosgoth) theirfore I cannot see how you can claim that the Kain can Control the magic of Archimonde when it's two entirely different sources and two entirely different manifistation of the magic.

I was more seeing it as quick way to reach a BFR ore a Knockout. The Shield? Ore the thing I have asked you to prove?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Summon them? Cenarius can summon one effortless, so can regular druids in World of Warcraft.

So the mist form that you claims would protect Kain from a magical impact vanishes when it got hit by a sword?

Really? Then you wouldn't mind giving me a example of him cutting of the magical power to a mage in LoK, lets not include the Guardians because we already know that he can control theirs, what I would like is proof that he can take any random sorcerer ore mage and cut off his power.

I was more seeing it as quick way to reach a BFR ore a Knockout. The Shield? Ore the thing I have asked you to prove?

What do you mean? in gameplay the druids can summon a small whirlwind that can lift one unit, when do they do it in canon? in book or cinematic form?

No, Kain in BO 2 simply lost mist form if he was discovered, mist form in Blood omen 2 was simply stealth, obviously this is not the case anymore, since Kains evolution hes gained the ability to become mist not only out of a misty area but also while beings can see/detect him.

The same quote that gives Kain the ability to regulate says its for the whole of Nosgoth, theres no reason why you would doubt it, its just an ability, although hes never done it has he because he only has it at the end of Defiance which happens to be the last game in the series 🙄

The shieldi s similiary useful to magic and ive already proven it, go back a few pages.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What do you mean? in gameplay the druids can summon a small whirlwind that can lift one unit, when do they do it in canon? in book or cinematic form?

No, Kain in BO 2 simply lost mist form if he was discovered, mist form in Blood omen 2 was simply stealth, obviously this is not the case anymore, since Kains evolution hes gained the ability to become mist not only out of a misty area but also while beings can see/detect him.

The same quote that gives Kain the ability to regulate says its for the whole of Nosgoth, theres no reason why you would doubt it, its just an ability, although hes never done it has he because he only has it at the end of Defiance which happens to be the last game in the series 🙄

The shieldi s similiary useful to magic and ive already proven it, go back a few pages.

Malfurion summons a storm that tears the top of a pillar in the first book in the trilogy war of the Ancient.

A ability he doesn't displayed quite well in Defiance of Kain, the only places that he to my knowlegde could use mist form there was when he had to go through bars, if he could escape and be immune to damage in his mist form, why didn't he use it against Moebius during their first confrontation?

The Whole of Nosgoth wasn't last time I checked the Whole fantasy universe. Then surely you have some other example where another Balance Guardian uses that ability to surpress another mage that isn't connected to the pillars? I'm not sure however the thing that Vorador threw at the first Balance Guardian in BO was that a Magical Ability ore a Item that he used...

And as previously mentioned Finger of death bypasses Spell Immunity and Mana Shields so your point would be?

Has Kain ever faced a sorcerer of Archimonde's power?

To my knowlegde? No.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Malfurion summons a storm that tears the top of a pillar in the first book in the trilogy war of the Ancient.

A ability he doesn't displayed quite well in Defiance of Kain, the only places that he to my knowlegde could use mist form there was when he had to go through bars, if he could escape and be immune to damage in his mist form, why didn't he use it against Moebius during their first confrontation?

The Whole of Nosgoth wasn't last time I checked the Whole fantasy universe. Then surely you have some other example where another Balance Guardian uses that ability to surpress another mage that isn't connected to the pillars?

And as previously mentioned Finger of death bypasses Spell Immunity and Mana Shields so your point would be?

Malfurion is hardly a "common" druid tho is he....

Because the staff of Moebius weakened him, the power of the staff is unkown, we simply know it puts constraint on vampires to the degree that their helpless...and he uses mist form whenever you hold down "Auto lock" and dodge....its the only way to dodge, is to turn into mist instantly and he jolts to the side.

Thats like saying Archimonde could not use any of his powers because hes never done it outside of warcraft if your doing what ithink you are and playing on the fact it simply says nosgoth, its not like its going to say anything else since thats the realm Kain is from....no because I dont need to do I? why would I need to find it when the evidence already states what they can do......there is no feat of it happening from what I remember.

It wont bypass much since the shield reflects magic, so Archimonde will then be under the brunt of its power....although ime not sure why Kain has anything to fear, 500 damage doesnt seem like much of a problem to kain... 😛

Finger of Death

Strikes an enemy with the finger of death, inflicting 20000 shadow damage upon them, their children, and their children's children.

This is the official description of the spell from WoW. No kidding.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Malfurion is hardly a "common" druid tho is he....

Because the staff of Moebius weakened him, the power of the staff is unkown, we simply know it puts constraint on vampires to the degree that their helpless...and he uses mist form whenever you hold down "Auto lock" and dodge....its the only way to dodge, is to turn into mist instantly and he jolts to the side.

Thats like saying Archimonde could not use any of his powers because hes never done it outside of warcraft if your doing what ithink you are and playing on the fact it simply says nosgoth, its not like its going to say anything else since thats the realm Kain is from....no because I dont need to do I? why would I need to find it when the evidence already states what they can do......

It wont bypass much since the shield reflects magic, so Archimonde will then be under the brunt of its power....although ime not sure why Kain has anything to fear, 500 damage doesnt seem like much of a problem to kain... 😛

No he isn't but that wasn't what you where asking, you asked for a lore oriented situation where a Hurrican had been summoned and I presened you with one.

Until the heart was ripped out of him. Then it no longer had any effect. LoL never tried to dogde I just hammered away until all around me was dead.

No their is a great difference in the two situations, First we ofcause must assume that both Characters have equal access to their powers hence we place them in a neutral universe, that means that Archimonde draw his power from the Warcraft universe illustration of Magic while Kain draws his powers from the LoK illustration of Magic, the two types of Magic are in nature as well as the illustration given by the owning companies entirely different, One of the illustration can level a planet the other cannot and so on, now to assume that Kain should, when the Battle begin, immidiately and per reflex gain control over a entirely different form of magic from another Universe just isn't making any sense, just as the idea of Medivh shutting down Kains magic to me makes no sense, that would be like asking Galactus to shut down the Power that the Elders of the Universe wields which is entirely different from the Power that he controls, so I doesn't at all see how you can make the justification that Kain can shut down Archimonde. And it stats NOSGOTH magic, not Warcraft Magic, would you say that the both types of magic are exactly the same?

Sorry what in the Words "Bypass Spell Immunity" slipped? And from all we know Kain could die temporarily by being hit by the Sarafan warriors so yes he has something to fear because a swordsmen in Warcraft only does around 13-17 damage. 😛

Originally posted by Utrigita
No he isn't but that wasn't what you where asking, you asked for a lore oriented situation where a Hurrican had been summoned and I presened you with one.

Until the heart was ripped out of him. Then it no longer had any effect. LoL never tried to dogde I just hammered away until all around me was dead.

No their is a great difference in the two situations, First we ofcause must assume that both Characters have equal access to their powers hence we place them in a neutral universe, that means that Archimonde draw his power from the Warcraft universe illustration of Magic while Kain draws his powers from the LoK illustration of Magic, the two types of Magic are in nature as well as the illustration given by the owning companies entirely different, One of the illustration can level a planet the other cannot and so on, now to assume that Kain should, when the Battle begin, immidiately and per reflex gain control over a entirely different form of magic from another Universe just isn't making any sense, just as the idea of Medivh shutting down Kains magic to me makes no sense, that would be like asking Galactus to shut down the Power that the Elders of the Universe wields which is entirely different from the Power that he controls, so I doesn't at all see how you can make the justification that Kain can shut down Archimonde. And it stats NOSGOTH magic, not Warcraft Magic, would you say that the both types of magic are exactly the same?

Sorry what in the Words "Bypass Spell Immunity" slipped? And from all we know Kain could die temporarily by being hit by the Sarafan warriors so yes he has something to fear because a swordsmen in Warcraft only does around 13-17 damage. 😛

I meant to back up that any druid could do something like a hurricane but thats besides the point, most of these opponetns are not druids anyway

Indeed, lol how can you get through the game without tapping it accidently?

Their just magic, in a neutral universe both magics would be similiar or the same, its just "magic", a force of power, there may be diffrent kinds of magic but its without debate that magic in both worlds is similiar, how it works is irrelvent or how there may be diffrent schools of magic is also, the fact its magic means that by the Nosgoth definition, a Balance guardian can regulate "magic", saying "well its in Nosgoth so it would be diffrent" is obviously a fallacy since any power could be diffrent in any universe which is why both characters fight in a neutral universe have access to their powers as if it was from their universe, the fact Kain can negate magic still comes with him since its an ability that works agaisnt magic in his universe.

spell refelction is diffrent from immunity, the spell is not trying to be absorbed or stopped, simply reflected like a mirror, the immunity happens only if the refelection doesnt work id imagine. lol....a swordsmen..

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Finger of Death

Strikes an enemy with the finger of death, inflicting 20000 shadow damage upon them, their children, and their children's children.

This is the official description of the spell from WoW. No kidding.

😆 "sigh"