http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t2wFPfT4zQ&feature=channel_page
Near the end of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t2wFPfT4zQ&feature=channel_page
Near the end of the video.
Originally posted by Utrigita
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svH5xe_t0-wIt was then specified later that he did it with raising his hand but in this clip it looks like when he is summoning infernals however the effect produced is different. 7:04
specified later? when later?
Originally posted by Burning thought
yes but the abilities ime using have factual values, mist form is mist, and its shown to be able to do things, your using gameplay mechanics...Kains spirit death for example is obvious for what it does and Kain tells us himself what it does...your assuming things from the gameplay mechanics themselves.Ive not said that at all and ive not contradicted myself, I think your just assuming constantly that the pillars are the supreme source of every magic in Nosgoth, this has been proven false because even without a Balance guardian, said magic still excists, the only beings who benefit from the pillars is the guardians themselves.
[b]Balance guardians passive connection with pillars required for Guardians full power, their not required for magic in the entire Nosgoth
Can you outline the actual contradiction?
Because the Balance guardian is dead, its a passive connection, a balance Guardian has never shown to be able to say "fck you guardians, ime turning off the pillar powers!" And as it says quite clearly the Balancee guardian regulates all the magic in Nosgoth, it doesnt say they have to regulate connections between pillars...the connection has little to do really with magic power overall, its simply a connecton all guardians have unless the balance guardian dies, its not regulated by balance guardian.
your still confused, I think your adding things from your own mind when you judge my posts, the pillars are not the hub of all magic and if they were thats still zero meaning to the connection to the pillars, not every being in Nosgoth has a link to the pillars...only the guardians, which is lost when Balance guardian is dead, their connection lost doesnt mean they have no magic....as ive said before Balance guardians regulate all the magic so Archimonde is no exception in a neutral world battle.
Its simply saying their magic influenced it, not them by themselves...its the same thing, controlling regulation through magic, it wouldnt say regulation woudl it or that regulation was the Guardains role.
Its not a simple fansite, its an information site, it gives deep information on the games and often has sources for its information for example:
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/lok/guardians.php
which is about the guardians says at the top
A wikia is never a case for fact, when info is taken into account, Wikia often comes last, simply because it can be edited by anyone, and its shown a lack of professoinalism in the fact its simply copied the Dark chronicles info when you click on the guardians...
If guardians could only use magic from the pillars they wouldnt be able to use magic when Ariel died and Kain battled them all....its obvious the pillars are simply their main power plant, ofc without it, theyve shown they can still use magic regardless.
wtf, thats like saying a man with a gun who shoots wolves at his farm could under no circumstances use that gun if a person attacked him, putting him in a combat situation so he cannot use his guns!, ofc its nonsense, your just trying to save the Warcraft characters magic from Kains regulation.
Thats not an assumption, its logic....factual logic, as I said above, its riduclous to think Kain could not use it in combat, its purpose would be exactley the same, regulating magic....
and in what manner? theres only one manner...regulation, simple....Archimonde forming a bubble out of TK is a completly diffrent ability alltogether.
false, he returns there when he is badly wounded....so no it wouldnt be a win, not even a defeat really, no more than using a healing spell of a paladin would be a defeat for the paladin...
I never said it want usable, i meant we shouldnt use it because not only has it never been used outside of gameplay mechanics but more importantly, all it is, is gameplay mechanics, it has no real fact about the spell to gauge its real power level. [/B]
Let me get this straight you say mist is mist yet you say that it will be uninfluence by a Storm produced by Malfurion?
No I’m not BT, what I have said again and again is that I find it strange is that you claim that the Balance Guardian control all the Magic of Nosgoth, but that only the connection between the Guardians the Pillars was severed apon the dead of the Guardian, logic would dictate that if the Balance Guardians dead severed the connection between the Pillars and the Guardians then the Connection between the Guardians and the land itself should have equally been severed because the Balance Guardian is capable, according to you, to regulate it all so how only the Pillars shutdown is a mystery unless of cause that is the only magic that the Guardian of Balance regulates the one from the Pillars and too the other Guardians. You should have noticed that I said that if the Guardians having no longer access to their individual Pillar could still draw power then I couldn’t see any reason why Archimonde couldn’t.
I think it’s pretty clearly done in the last post why do it again?
It's a shame that their isn't any incident where the Balance Guardian have done that, and you know why there isn't BT? Because they cannot. Again BT that doesn’t make any sense, How can you claim that the Balance Guardian control all magic in Nosgoth (allows to whom it goes etc) but incapable of shutting down the connection between the Pillars and the Guardians when it’s that connection that gives the Guardian a vast majority of the power they command I thought that, that particular connection was what the Balance Guardian controlled?
I never said they where I said that the Balance Guardian was the hub just like yourself if you recall. You see that is the entire poblem, how can the Guardians not draw magic from the Pillars with the Balance Guardian dead they need the Central Hub, but they doesn’t need any help to draw magic from Nosgoth itself, and that doesn’t make any sense when it’s put into context with what you are claiming, that the Guardian of Balance Regulate all magic, then the connection should have been severed when the Guardian died just like the magical Connection to the pillars did.
No BT Influecing and Controlling isn’t the same. I can have influence at my work, but that is hardly the same as saying I have control over my work I can influence it but I cannot control it, just like the Balance Guardian can Influence it not control it.
Sorry but at the front page it says Fansite.
DARK CHRONICLE is a Legacy of Kain fan site
That could just as easily have been taken and apparently is from another source all together and how did they come by it they could easily have taken it from the handbook that follows with the games (I doesn’t have it) but isn’t that the idea with them to expand the knowlegde?
I have never said otherwise, what I have been saying is that if the Guardians lost their connection to the pillars apon the death of Ariel and that cut of their connection to the pillars, then it makes no sense that they can continue to draw magic from the land of Nosgoth.
Really bad example if not to say directly meaningless, the Character that shoots the wolfs have shown that he have a gun and understand how to use it and in a dire situation will use it, the question would then be if he was WILLING to shot another person, there comes the psycology into the picture hence CIS. No I’m not because from my point of view Kain cannot use what he doesn’t have, Kain has not shown that he can control other mages that isn’t connected to the pillars access to magic.
If CIS is active then he wouldn’t because he never has used it against a opponent theirfore the example with the wolfs and the man wasn’t exactly sparkling.
No it isn’t, what Art is doing is taking a ability already in existance and that Archimonde have showed great control over, I mean he could rip the scales from a Dragon pulling the Scales outwards then it should be fairly easy to do the opposite, the difference is that Archimonde have shown that he can use his telekinetic in a battle situation Kain nore any other Balance Guardian have ever utilized the ability against a Opponent.
Badly wounded as in so defeated that he cannot keep himself up any longer in short a win, ore perhaps you see it as a setback when you loses against the Sarafan warriors I see it as it is a lose.
As said before not in lore but in RPG it have been used but really how much of what Kain does have been used outside gameplay? Not a lot.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Let me get this straight you say mist is mist yet you say that it will be uninfluence by a Storm produced by Malfurion?No I’m not BT, what I have said again and again is that I find it strange is that you claim that the Balance Guardian control all the Magic of Nosgoth, but that only the connection between the Guardians the Pillars was severed apon the dead of the Guardian, logic would dictate that if the Balance Guardians dead severed the connection between the Pillars and the Guardians then the Connection between the Guardians and the land itself should have equally been severed because the Balance Guardian is capable, according to you, to regulate it all so how only the Pillars shutdown is a mystery unless of cause that is the only magic that the Guardian of Balance regulates the one from the Pillars and too the other Guardians. You should have noticed that I said that if the Guardians having no longer access to their individual Pillar could still draw power then I couldn’t see any reason why Archimonde couldn’t.
I think it’s pretty clearly done in the last post why do it again?
It's a shame that their isn't any incident where the Balance Guardian have done that, and you know why there isn't BT? Because they cannot. Again BT that doesn’t make any sense, How can you claim that the Balance Guardian control all magic in Nosgoth (allows to whom it goes etc) but incapable of shutting down the connection between the Pillars and the Guardians when it’s that connection that gives the Guardian a vast majority of the power they command I thought that, that particular connection was what the Balance Guardian controlled?
I never said they where I said that the Balance Guardian was the hub just like yourself if you recall. You see that is the entire poblem, how can the Guardians not draw magic from the Pillars with the Balance Guardian dead they need the Central Hub, but they doesn’t need any help to draw magic from Nosgoth itself, and that doesn’t make any sense when it’s put into context with what you are claiming, that the Guardian of Balance Regulate all magic, then the connection should have been severed when the Guardian died just like the magical Connection to the pillars did.
No BT Influecing and Controlling isn’t the same. I can have influence at my work, but that is hardly the same as saying I have control over my work I can influence it but I cannot control it, just like the Balance Guardian can Influence it not control it.
Sorry but at the front page it says Fansite.
That could just as easily have been taken and apparently is from another source all together and how did they come by it they could easily have taken it from the handbook that follows with the games (I doesn’t have it) but isn’t that the idea with them to expand the knowlegde?
I have never said otherwise, what I have been saying is that if the Guardians lost their connection to the pillars apon the death of Ariel and that cut of their connection to the pillars, then it makes no sense that they can continue to draw magic from the land of Nosgoth.
Really bad example if not to say directly meaningless, the Character that shoots the wolfs have shown that he have a gun and understand how to use it and in a dire situation will use it, the question would then be if he was WILLING to shot another person, there comes the psycology into the picture hence CIS. No I’m not because from my point of view Kain cannot use what he doesn’t have, Kain has not shown that he can control other mages that isn’t connected to the pillars access to magic.
If CIS is active then he wouldn’t because he never has used it against a opponent theirfore the example with the wolfs and the man wasn’t exactly sparkling.
No it isn’t, what Art is doing is taking a ability already in existance and that Archimonde have showed great control over, I mean he could rip the scales from a Dragon pulling the Scales outwards then it should be fairly easy to do the opposite, the difference is that Archimonde have shown that he can use his telekinetic in a battle situation Kain nore any other Balance Guardian have ever utilized the ability against a Opponent.
Badly wounded as in so defeated that he cannot keep himself up any longer in short a win, ore perhaps you see it as a setback when you loses against the Sarafan warriors I see it as it is a lose.
As said before not in lore but in RPG it have been used but really how much of what Kain does have been used outside gameplay? Not a lot.
no, i mean it wont do Malfurion any good, the mist is still Kain and will reform just like it does when he seeps through cracks, crevises and bars only likely behind Malfurion, ready to slice him in half, not that Malfurion will get the chance to cast anything worthwhile, Kain would likely slice him in half the first instant the batle starts, Kain is not going to w8 for Malfurion to cast a spell.
You dont seem to understand control, and requirement do you? they require the Balance guardian for their connection with the pillars, they dont require their magic to be regulated for it to excist. Your not making any sense at all, no logic dictates that just because the Balance guardian is the passive connection between the pillars and the guardians, theres nothing that states it connects them to the world and every other being to the world as well.... Like we said in our old examples, Kain closes cookie jars, he doesnt have his own...
Well Kain nor any balance guardian is even trying to regulate them so I dont see any reason why tehy cannot draw power from Nosgoth itself since they are magic users...Archimonde on the other hand wouldnt have the choice since Kain would be regulating.
Because its not clear, you simply quoted my whole statement, if you bolded the contradiction itself then it would be easier to pick apart...so far it just you seem to be confused with the wording, everything ive said is no contradiction at all..
No they cannot turn off the pillars connection, its a passive, so no, theres no reason why a passive connection that is not regulated by them would be breakable by them. No, as my quote says the world of Nosgoth is under regultion magic, so although the magical capabilities of the Guardians power may be under scrutiny and judgement by the Balance guardian as the quote says quite clearly (since afterall the Guardians are also part of Nosgoth) the connection itself between them and their pillars.
ofc its the same, certainly from diffrent points of view, if I influence the cat to move through physical force, I could indeed be kicking it up the ass, if I influenced a reaction in a checmical by adding another, ime the one responsible for the checmicals change,...Kain is influencing regulation with his magic meaning he governs it. The fact the quote at the beginning states the role of the Balance guardian is one of regulation is hardly less of a clue either...
so what if it does? when did I disagree?
Why? you need to make the connection that the pillars are obviously not the only source of magic, perhaps they are indeed the strongest, and they are the physical represetations of the concepts, but that doesnt mean just because the Guardians cannot touch that power they cannot use the worlds magic instead anyway. Ill say it again, Balance guardians are not the source of magic, and they do not GIVE or Provide actual magic itself...they regulate.
Its a fine example if you understand the meaning insttead of trying to go deep into picking it apart, the man has a gun, he can shoot wolves, do I need to change the character of the man for you to understand? okie now hes a cold blooded killer who laughs as their heads go flying into the air.....the fact of the matter is, he has the gun, he can fire it, he can kill, just because another guy is aiming a gun at him, the man does not atuomatically lose weapon and ammunition. The same is with the Balance guardians, their magic would not for any logical reason disapear, they wouldnt be regulators if they could not control a beings magic in the first place, thats the point of the governing of magic isnt it, it would be like having policemen to keep the law, only dress them up as clowns with squeeky rubber truncheons.
THats not a reason for CIS, your not talking about CIS, infact ime not sure what your trying to say but its not CIS, Kain never actually using an ability in combat does not mean anything about how he would approach a situation, its not within his character to hold back power against a hated foe.
so? whats to do with showing it in a battle sitation....your saying if Archimonde used the Tk instead to blow apart mountains before having used it to defeat an opponent, he simply wouldnt be able to? what nonsense...thats like saying the latest in nuclear weapons are incapable of being used in real combat because all theyve had is test, so we will just have to send out more "little boy" bombs if we go into a nuclear war and keep our new nukes in shelters.....I think once again, its just your poor way of saying "damn, Kain could shatter the Warcraft characters hopes by taking away their powers!"
well you can see it what you like, but a character is not actually defeated until killed or incapaciated. having to fall back a while to recover from a wound is not defeat...
Ime talking about gameplay mechanics, a spell used in gameplay is fine, but since finger of death is 100% gameplay mechanics its worthless in a debate.