So this statement by Mr Miracle in Final Crisis #5 does not explain why time and space broke down, the cosmic war between the New Gods, was not, in fact, the reason why time and space broke down, it must have just been Darkseid's own power... Mr Miracle is, in fact... a complete liar:
And this order by Cain to the Spectre, talking about unmaking
creation and rebuilding the world in Darkseid's name... and then Spectre talking about that which was unmade, to be re-formed and all the damage and the flames subsiding and blue skies forming... I guess then he must only be talking about free will... yea... not really:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, it doesn't say that Darkseid's power is pulling the Multiverse into the singularity. It's stated multiple times that his falling through the Multiverse is pulling it through to the singularity. And the thing that broke time and space was the war of the New Gods before Final Crisis #1.
The point you made is completely irrelevant. Straw-man. I rebutted your statement that Darkseid's own words are meaningful evidence since Morrison himself stated Darkseid was utterly wrong. Don't try to recast my argument into something it's not.
Uh no. I am the one giving page references, scans and quotes from the actual comics and actual interviews. You have been doing nothing but making sweeping generalizations, referring to vague interviews/handbooks, etc. Turn the magnifying glass on yourself.
Oh yes. I'm sure both of them talking about this being their "last day," and him responding "I think so," as everything fades away and Nix Uotan waking up with this flabbergasted look of surprise on the last page is Nix knowing exactly what was going to happen. Them talking abotu Superman's wish for all of them, for a happy ending has nothing to do with what's actualyl occurring on-panel.
Of course the Anti-Life Equation broadcast will have the affect of enslaving them all. That is a natural consequence of the Anti-Life Equation that we all know about. But if the only thing that happened and unhappened was people's minds being taken over, how do you possibly explain away these words in Final Crisis: Revelations #4: "Unmake creation." "Rebuild the world in Darkseid's name." "The spell of the ending." And then how do you explain when Spectre restores everything around the world in Final Crisis: Revelation #5 and refers to it as: "Let that which was unmade be re-formed!" Nice try.Still ignoring Mr. Miracle's words. And Batman's words. Still ignoring the narrative description of the Miracle Machine. Now you can ignore Cain's and Spectre's own words also. Keep it up.
🤣
Your point is IRRELEVANT. Darkseid's fall was the end result of that war and was said by the guardians and several other characters as the reason for the doomsday singularity, WHICH WAS BREAKING DOWN SPACE/TIME.
Second, you ever think about how maybe it's because it's The Spectre saying the ALE or that maybe it was because Cain ordered him to literally unmake creation?
Let me also ask this question... "You guys consider the Anti-Life Equation as only being capable of taking away free will... correct?"
If you say yes... then, "You must consider the Life Equation as only capable of restoring free will... correct?"
Then... if the Miracle Machine calculates the Life Equation in order to do what it does, as described on-panel here:
And yet... Wonder Woman actually frees EVERY person from the thrall of the Anti-Life Equation with her Lasso of Truth before the Miracle Machine is activated:
... what exactly is the point of the Miracle Machine's calculating the Life Equation... if the effects of the Anti-Life Equation, (which is your opinion is ONLY the enslavement of free will), were already reversed by Wonderwoman? Let me guve you a hint, the Life Equation calculated by the Miracle Machine does more than just free human will. And if it does more than free human will, than the Anti-Life Equation does more than subdue free will, as stated by Cain, Spectre, and pretty much all stories involving the ALE before Final Crisis.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So this statement by Mr Miracle in Final Crisis #5 does not explain why time and space broke down, the cosmic war between the New Gods, was not, in fact, the reason why time and space broke down, it must have just been Darkseid's own power... Mr Miracle is, in fact... a complete liar:And this order by Cain to the Spectre, talking about unmaking
creation and rebuilding the world in Darkseid's name... and then Spectre talking about that which was unmade, to be re-formed and all the damage and the flames subsiding and blue skies forming... I guess then he must only be talking about free will... yea... not really:
Dude just give it up.
You stand alone in your campaign of New God hate.
I've already proven that DS started collapsing the multiverse BEFORE CAIN EVEN MET THE SPECTRE IN REVELATIONS as proven by the panel in which SUPERGIRL IS AT THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE, WHILE THE MULTIVERSE STARTED FALLING 2-3 ISSUES EARLIER.
Or did you miss that?
As for Mister Miracle again the war at heaven only brought the FALL OF DARKSEID. After his fall he came to earth as BOSS DARKSIDE and guess what, NOTHING HAPPENED.
Now according to you at that point the multiverse should start collapsing since the war was over.
BUT THIS HAPPENED ONLY WHEN DARKSEID WAS REBORN IN HIS TRUE FORM WEEKS OR MONTHS AFTER HIS FALL.
Mister Miracle doesn't know what happened exactly because he is NOT A NEW GOD. He is a mortal who only grasps what his mind can comprehend through the Mother Box AS STATED ON PANEL with the MANY DEATHS OF ORION that ARE ACTUALLY ONE. It's just what mortal mind can understand.
And on panel feats (Superman being faster than Wonder Woman) >>> character claims (Wonder Woman stating she is faster than Superman)
Originally posted by comicfan11Straw-man again. I NEVER said the collapse of the Multiverse started with Spectre speaking the Anti-Life Equation. AS YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MR MIRACLE STATED WHY THE MULTIVERSE IS COLLAPSING:
Dude just give it up.
You stand alone in your campaign of New God hate.I've already proven that DS started collapsing the multiverse BEFORE CAIN EVEN MET THE SPECTRE IN REVELATIONS as proven by the panel in which SUPERGIRL IS AT THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE, WHILE THE MULTIVERSE STARTED FALLING 2-3 ISSUES EARLIER.
Or did you miss that?As for Mister Miracle again the war at heaven only brought the FALL OF DARKSEID. After his fall he came to earth as BOSS DARKSIDE and guess what, NOTHING HAPPENED.
Now according to you at that point the multiverse should start collapsing since the war was over.
BUT THIS HAPPENED ONLY WHEN DARKSEID WAS REBORN IN HIS TRUE FORM WEEKS OR MONTHS AFTER HIS FALL.Mister Miracle doesn't know what happened exactly because he is NOT A NEW GOD. He is a mortal who only grasps what his mind can comprehend through the Mother Box AS STATED ON PANEL with the MANY DEATHS OF ORION that ARE ACTUALLY ONE. It's just what mortal mind can understand.
And on panel feats (Superman being faster than Wonder Woman) >>> character claims (Wonder Woman stating she is faster than Superman)
And now... Mr Miracle is not a New God. Wow. Just. Wow. You heard it hear first folks... Mr Miracle is NOT a New God and he can't POSSIBLY know what happened about the cosmic war of the New Gods. And I'm hating on the New Gods?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So this statement by Mr Miracle in Final Crisis #5 does not explain why time and space broke down, the cosmic war between the New Gods, was not, in fact, the reason why time and space broke down, it must have just been Darkseid's own power... Mr Miracle is, in fact... a complete liar:
First of all you're a missing a few things. Miracle said Darkseid is dragging the universe with him in those same scans.
Here it describes that DS is radiating the singularity. Also the ALE only enslaves souls it doesn't rewrite or crumple space and time. One, he's created a personal singularity (FC 6). The Guardians state that he is crumpling all space and time from his position on Earth. (FC 5)
Here the GL's falling towards the singularity and they describe it as "a hell where everything is Darkseid". (FC5)
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And this order by Cain to the Spectre, talking about unmaking
creation and rebuilding the world in Darkseid's name... and then Spectre talking about that which was unmade, to be re-formed and all the damage and the flames subsiding and blue skies forming... I guess then he must only be talking about free will... yea... not really:
Cain was using the Spectre and his power to spread the ALE, he was a conduit for the equation which would enslave all mankind thereby turning all humans into Darkseid's body, that is how he would unmake creation by taking away god's gift to mankind, I suggest rereading Revelations from issue 1.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Straw-man again. I NEVER said the collapse of the Multiverse started with Spectre speaking the Anti-Life Equation. AS YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MR MIRACLE STATED WHY THE MULTIVERSE IS COLLAPSING:And now... Mr Miracle is not a New God. Wow. Just. Wow. You heard it hear first folks... Mr Miracle is NOT a New God and he can't POSSIBLY know what happened about the cosmic war of the New Gods. And I'm hating on the New Gods?
Name calling again... 😆
You are original.
And now let's hear it.
YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW WHO MISTER MIRACLE IS. 😆
THIS IS NOT THE NEW GOD MISTER MIRACLE SCOTT FREE 😆
THIS IS THE MORTAL MISTER MIRACLE SHILO NORMAN WHO WAS ONCE HIS APPRENTICE 😆
I think it's pretty clear THAT YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER OF THE NEW GODS AND MAYBE DC IN GENERAL.
I think it's safe to say CASE CLOSED.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And now... Mr Miracle is not a New God. Wow. Just. Wow. You heard it hear first folks... Mr Miracle is NOT a New God and he can't POSSIBLY know what happened about the cosmic war of the New Gods. And I'm hating on the New Gods?
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
They're right. Mr. Miracle currently is NOT a new god. Scott Free DIED. This is Shilo Norman. He has god sight and perception of the 4th world, but he is not a NEW GOD per say.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestlet me ask you something. No sarcasm intended, and you can flame all you damn want. How did Wonderwoman prevent people from hurting each other with her Lasso of Truth? What did bindng Darkseid do? "Did it, or did it not, cancel out the subjugation of will of the ALE or not?"
That second panel says nothing about the lasso freeing the people. All it says was that Darkseid was bound and that no one was hurt. Obviously, since the lasso is holding him back and binding his physical body.More of your bullshit refuted. 🙄
ANSWER YES OR NO.
Also, to everybody else arguing with me, "WHEN DID DARKSEID LEARN THE FULL ALE IN?" At the end of Seven Soldiers, right? Which is pretty much the lead-up to the war of the New Gods and Final Crisis, right? Answer me this question, "Darkseid's gaining of the ALE has NOTHING to do with the cosmic war of the New Gods?"
ANSWER YES OR NO.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Name calling again... 😆
You are original.And now let's hear it.
YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW WHO MISTER MIRACLE IS. 😆THIS IS NOT THE NEW GOD MISTER MIRACLE SCOTT FREE 😆
THIS IS THE MORTAL MISTER MIRACLE SHILO NORMAN WHO WAS ONCE HIS APPRENTICE 😆
I think it's pretty clear THAT YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER OF THE NEW GODS AND MAYBE DC IN GENERAL.
I think it's safe to say CASE CLOSED.
Though it's off topic, take a look at his post on the "supes vs ss"pure brawl thread just incase u guys think his ignorance only spans the new gods and DS.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
They're right. Mr. Miracle currently is NOT a new god. Scott Free DIED. This is Shilo Norman. He has god sight and perception of the 4th world, but he is not a NEW GOD per say.
That's correct.
The only thing he has is the last Motherbox that allows him to see New Gods in human forms and make him immune to the ALE.
Shilo Norman was never a New God.
In fact you could hardly call him a superhero.
Originally posted by comicfan11You're kidding me, right? You think that the new incarnation of Mr Miracle the New God, simply by being manifested as the identity of Shilo Norman, makes him not a New God, and therefore he can't know anything about the cosmic war of the New Gods?
Name calling again... 😆
You are original.And now let's hear it.
YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW WHO MISTER MIRACLE IS. 😆THIS IS NOT THE NEW GOD MISTER MIRACLE SCOTT FREE 😆
THIS IS THE MORTAL MISTER MIRACLE SHILO NORMAN WHO WAS ONCE HIS APPRENTICE 😆
I think it's pretty clear THAT YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER OF THE NEW GODS AND MAYBE DC IN GENERAL.
I think it's safe to say CASE CLOSED.
And Darkseid manifested as what? Boss Darkside and then Dan Turpin? And then Granny Goodness and the rest of them, manifesting in new forms? They aren't actually New Gods anymore?
Answer this question, what broke down time and space, regardless of whether you think Mr Miracle is knowledgeable or not, "What broke down time and space?"
ANSWER IN A SINGLE SENTENCE.
