Spider-man and The Jedi Order

Originally posted by Scythe
Doesn't matter, when someone attacks you, you equal yourself to their level.

Placidity: "I know you're stupid, but I'd assume you understand what the above means, you've just got too much ego to admitt you've been made to look like the smartass who failed."

RJ: "You are a b*tchboy"

Two rule breakers, not just one. Just because you are attacked, defending oneself doesn't grant immunity to say or do whatever you want.

Star Wars fan boys need to stop assuming that the Jedi force powers can trump or even more "pwn" Spidey. Also STFU with the EU already.

The scene that 'Tard provided is CLEARLY proof of how fast Spider-Man was in the movies. Obi-wan (who was pretty bad-ass by Jedi standards) had trouble with Jango in H2H, and Jango has some pretty average reflexes. Not only that... there is no proof that force powers can't be counteracted by physical strength(which spidey has tons of).

It's not fanboyism, dude. It's looking at it realistically. Force powers are far too much for spidey too handle.

And we can only go with what we see in the movies. Never, not once, does someone repel the force with brute strength.

Well we have not seen anybody with Spidey-League strength in SW movies now have we?

It's clear that physics (such as weight) do effect force powers ; otherwise Master Yoda would'nt have to concentrate so hard to move Luke's X-wing or to deflect that huge piece of metal Dooku made fall on top of him.

At least you didn't try to deny that Spidey is WAY out of Jango's League in reflexes and power.

Originally posted by Blinky
Star Wars fan boys need to stop assuming that the Jedi force powers can trump or even more "pwn" Spidey.

They could. 😐

Originally posted by Blinky
Also STFU with the EU already.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Blinky
The scene that 'Tard provided is CLEARLY proof of how fast Spider-Man was in the movies.

See most original post to Robtard about that. 😐

Originally posted by Blinky
Obi-wan (who was pretty bad-ass by Jedi standards) had trouble with Jango in H2H, and Jango has some pretty average reflexes. Not only that... there is no proof that force powers can't be counteracted by physical strength(which spidey has tons of).

I would say that there is logical evidence that a strong person could resist the force. We would have to go the the EU for that. (Marka Ragnos was strong.) Since even Yoda strained over that pillar thrown at him from Dooku in Ep II, I would assume that a spiderman, clinging for dear life to something very sturdy, would pose a BIG difficulty to the average force user. I am quite sure it would take much more force to tear him away from his gripped place than it would for Yoda to to catch that pillar. A regular Jedi Knight could probably not budge him. I would say a talented Jedi Knight might have some success...but with great difficulty.

Originally posted by Blinky
Well we have not seen anybody with Spidey-League strength in SW movies now have we?

Ask yourself this. Spidey is flying through the air towards lets say, Jean Grey. Does she have what it takes to stop him in mid flight?

It's clear that physics (such as weight) do effect force powers ; otherwise Master Yoda would'nt have to concentrate so hard to move Luke's X-wing or to deflect that huge piece of metal Dooku made fall on top of him.

At least you didn't try to deny that Spidey is WAY out of Jango's League in reflexes and power.

And yes, please, lets keep the EU shit out of this.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I havent posted in that thread in a while, but I have become convinced that Spidey wins that matchup prolly 8/10.

Didn't you say in the Batman/Jango thread that 'Obi was lucky to make it out alive' as a reference/point to just how super-badass Jango is supposed to be?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nope.

Ask yourself this. Spidey is flying through the air towards lets say, Jean Grey. Does she have what it takes to stop him in mid flight?.

Jean Grey is planet busting material firstly, so don't compare her with people who have trouble lifting x-wings. Force power in the movies are way weaker, sorry dude.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Physical strength of an individual and the size of an inanimate object are two entirely different things.

If by size you mean weight, then you are only half right. Yoda had trouble moving that pillar because of Physical properties such as force or weight, that was my point. Force powers don't seem to be beyond Physical limitations in the movies.

Originally posted by Robtard
Didn't you say in the Batman/Jango thread that 'Obi was lucky to make it out alive' as a reference/point to just how super-badass Jango is supposed to be?

Originally posted by Blinky
Jean Grey is planet busting material firstly, so don't compare her with people who have trouble lifting x-wings. Force power in the movies are way weaker, sorry dude.

If by size you mean weight, then you are only half right. Yoda had trouble moving that pillar because of Physical properties such as force or weight, that was my point. Force powers don't seem to be beyond Physical limitations in the movies.

Spider man is like 160. Sure, he is strong as hell. but nowhere, at no time in the SW movies, do we see someone resisting the force with their physical strength.

In the SW movies, the force has the same effect on all living beings, regardless of size and or strength. Example:

Yoda force pushing Sidious.

Luke force choking the Gamorrean guards in Jabba's palace.

Both were done as easy as breathing, even though the Gamorreans were far stronger physically than Sidious was.

Your logic is baffling. The point: weight affecting the use of the Force is proof that the Force has limits and not 'just the Force can counter the Force', (repeat) otherwise a heavy object would be moved no different than a light one was. Agreed?

So it stands to reason that Spider-man, who can stop a mother****ing out-of-control speeding train could resist a Force-hold. In regards to being lifted, his strength could counter it if he had something to hold onto, or he could simply rely on his 'sticking/gripping' powers.

As Bardock mentioned, the fat pig-men have nothing on Spider-man, 500 of them couldn't stop that train. Comparing them to Spider-man is nonsense.

Originally posted by Robtard
Your logic is baffling. The point: weight affecting the use of the Force is proof that the Force has limits and not 'just the Force can counter the Force', (repeat) otherwise a heavy object would be moved no different than a light one was. Agreed?

So it stands to reason that Spider-man, who can stop a mother****ing out-of-control speeding train could resist a Force-hold. In regards to being lifted, his strength could counter it if he had something to hold onto, or he could simply rely on his 'sticking/gripping' powers.

Here's the bottom line....At any point in the SW movies do we see someone resisting the force with their physical strength? No.

Are the Gamorreans as easily affected by it as a guy say, our size? Yes.

Are the Gamorreans alot stronger than the average man? Yes.

The force had the same effect on the Gamorreans as it did an average man, and it was wielded just as easily against them. Why? If they are so much stronger, why did Luke force choke them with a simple hand gesture? Why didnt they use their physical strength to at least make it harder for him?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here's the bottom line....At any point in the SW movies do we see someone resisting the force with their physical strength? No.

Are the Gamorreans as easily affected by it as a guy say, our size? Yes.

Are the Gamorreans alot stronger than the average man? Yes.

The force had the same effect on the Gamorreans as it did an average man, and it was wielded just as easily against them. Why? If they are so much stronger, why did Luke force choke them with a simple hand gesture? Why didnt they use their physical strength to at least make it harder for him?

We do see that weight does affect the Force, so something other than the Force can affect it.

Again, it's a silly comparision. The pig-men are what logically, 2 to 10 times stronger than a human, Spider-man is strong enough to stop a 140+ ton train (plus the weight of the passengers, which had a few fatties to boot) which not only had the inertia of moving at 70-80mph, it was also being pushed by the 2,000+ horsepower in it engines.

Might as well claim you can lift a pickup truck because you can lift a Tonka.

Originally posted by Robtard
We do see that weight does affect the Force, so something other than the Force can affect it.

Again, it's a silly comparision. The pig-men are what logically, 2 to 10 times stronger than a human, Spider-man is strong enough to stop a 142 ton train (plus the weight of the passengers, which had a few fatties to boot) which not only had the inertia of moving at 70-80mph, it was also being pushed by it's 2,000+ horsepower in it engines.

Might as well claim you can lift a pickup truck becauae you can lift a Tonka.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Weight doesnt "affect" the force, as you are implying.

Can you not see the conflict in logic in your statements..?

Different degrees of effort are required for heavier objects, obviously.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Weight doesnt "affect" the force, as you are implying. Different degrees of effort are required for heavier objects, obviously. A trained force user, Jedi or Sith, can lift pretty much anything they want.

I am talking about the effort involved, it was just as easy for Luke as it was for Yoda, even more so.

Dude, don't be a dumb-ass. Your "different degrees of effort" means weight affects the Force, if not, any and all objects (including a planet) would/could be moved with the same amount of effort.

And the effort it takes to use the Force is subject to other forces besides the Force itself, as shown repeatedly.

edit: I see Sadako pointed out your conflicting statements while I was responding.

Absolutely.

If anything could be lifted, then why wouldn't Anakin use that to stop the massive crash landing in ROTS...?

He could by your logic, RJ, lift the thing into a nice, non-tower destroying, NON life losing/endangering descent...?

But he couldnt.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Can you not see the conflict in logic in your statements..?

I said weight doesn't "affect" the force as he was implying. unless I misunderstood him, he was saying that some things cannot be lifted via the force. I pointed out that a larger object obviously requires more effort.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Absolutely.

If anything could be lifted, then why wouldn't Anakin use that to stop the massive crash landing in ROTS...?

He could by your logic, RJ, lift the thing into a nice, non-tower destroying, NON life losing/endangering descent...?

But he couldnt.

I see what you are saying, "Why didn't he just use the force to slowly lower it to the ground?" The ship was MASSIVE. Comparing elevating that ship and force holding/choking spidey is like comparing apples and oranges.

If spidey is so strong, why didnt he just kill Gobby with one punch?

All those extended drag fins and drive flaps etc were working.
If he had used the force to control it regardless of nice, it wouldnt have been hurtling in like that.

If it was as immune to weight size relevancy, he coulda done it easy.
(More logic conflict for you: Its "size matters not" according to your chosen interpretation of Yoda's words in your statements earlier in the thread.(

Why didnt he just destroy Goblin with one shot...?
I think you forget: because of the Goblin serum. 🙂

Countering question:
If the force usage was as limitless as your depict, why didnt the Jedi extend a hand and crush Grevious...?
Or bring a mothership down on him or something..? 😛

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
All those extended drag fins and drive flaps etc were working.
If he had used the force to control it regardless of nice, it wouldnt have been hurtling in like that.

If it was as immune to weight size relevancy, he coulda done it easy.
(More logic conflict for you: Its "size matters not" according to your chosen interpretation of Yoda's words in your statements earlier in the thread.(

Why didnt he just destroy Goblin with one shot...?
I think you forget: because of the Goblin serum. 🙂

Countering question:
If the force usage was as limitless as your depict, why didnt the Jedi extend a hand and crush Grevious...?
Or bring a mothership down on him or something..? 😛

Anakin was a 20 year old knight, he had the raw power, but apparently he hadn't quite harnessed it yet. Look at Obi Wan, his power grows in leaps and bounds from episode 1 to 3.

I am talking about Gobby's armor, why didn't it buckle when spidey kicked/punched it?