Spider-man and The Jedi Order

Originally posted by dadudemon
Glad you ask that.

Remember Grievous's cough in RoTS? Do you want to know where he got it from?

He got it from... *drum roll please.....*'

Mace Windu. Mace Windu used force crush on Grievous as he was making an escape.

Despite people wanting to cling to the Movies as being the only cannon, sometimes you really do have to include some "EU" stuff as cannon. However, in this VS. forum, only the movies can be used. I just thought that your point was rather good and wanted to point out that it WAS done.

Also, force crush is a hard power to use. Not very many can do it. Mace was that awesome.

Also, Mace beat down the emperor. Despite some star wars and non star wars fans yelling, "HE DIDN"T USE SHATTERPOINT! That is only EU bullshit!", we have clear evidence of shatterpoint being used. Turning the force lightening against Sidious IS using the shatterpoint technique. Remember when he force it back on Sidious and burned his face? Yeah, that was shatterpoint. ZOMG! GL included EU shit into his movie! EGADS!

Now, it was explained that Mace didn't sense Anakin's intentions because he was too focused on the emperor. His almost arrogant ignorance was his downfall. Some claim that Sidious had foreseen his defeat at that hands of Mace and also foresaw Anakin's presence in that situation and anticipated for it, accordingly. That seems very logical and fits very well with what George Lucas has called the most powerful Sith to ever be.

As for Spiderman. He has loads upon loads of durability far and above any of the "crude matter" Jedi and Sith.

Also, someone brought up the force choke that Luke used in RoTJ. That is part of Luke preparing the way for a balance between light and dark which was very well expanded on in the EU post OT timeline. I find it rather cool, to make these realizations. Force choke would never be acceptable to use by a Republic Jedi.

And someone mentioned something about the Rancor scene and why didn't Luke force choke the Rancor and be done with it.

I think the answer is quite obvious. 4+ minute scene with the absurdly scary Rancor, or a 15 second scene with a force choke? Hmm.....What would the audience like to see? Hmm....hmmm.....

And, yes, someone mentioned earlier that Luke wasn't a full Jedi Knight. That's true. I remember hearing GL talk in one of the interviews on the Saber Duels in TPM. He said that the duels were made much more intense and just plain awesome because, before, we had a lumbering Cyborg who was aging and a young untrained Jedi Novice dueling. It's his creation and that makes sense. Also, he did it for the money.

Now, why didn't the armor break on the Goblin in Spiderman? Just stupidty. I mean, come on, how realistic can you expect it to be. It's a super hero film based on a comic book. Does the force exist? Nope. Would spiderman punch a hole through Doc Ocs head? Yup. Is Spiderman much more flexible and acrobatic in the comics? Yup.

What was the armour Goblin was wearing made of...?

I know Clone Wars reeeally well, but as it was EU, we simplky cannot accept it.

Why didnt Mace use his CW depicted Machine gun fists that he defeated a clone army with against anything in the movies...?
(Another drum roll please)......... Because the cartoon was bollocks.

And the new CW series has an alternate take on that, as in the original series, Grevious was upright and had no cough/ a different voice until Mace did that. But now in this CW set before those events, they have revised that. Ergo: It doesnt happen in this.

And where was all that blue slug tattooing put on Anakin in CW, on Anakin in ROTS...?
Oh that was cartoon EU rubbish too.

So this is all EU irrelevancy.
Even the shatter point stuff.

And btw, the lightning didnt burn his face, it just dropped his Palpatine mask appearance is all.
(Unless you believe that lightning DOES that to teeth of course.
And unless you believe that Luke looked like Palpatine at the end of ROTJ.. )

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The reason Luke force choked the Gamorreans is because it was the quickest way to get past them, also it enabled him to avoid a violent confrontation with them. Force choke is a Sith trait, he wasnt doing it to kill, he was doing it to AVOID killing them.

As far as the Rancor goes, Luke knew he had to kill it, and opted not to use Sith powers to kill. Or maybe he just freaked, after all, he wasnt even a fully trained Jedi knight. If it had been Dooku or Sidious, they'd have just used force lightning til it was a crispy critter.

Yes. Crispy: Not how Palps looks.

So he uses one sith power then next minute decides not to use a sith power in the next scene becuase ....its a sith power...?

Why then, did he not then simply just choke it a bit then, like the gammorreans to give it the message...?

Because the theory that he could do it is rubbish.
Besides, we have to just go with what was on screen, dont we.

As Vader would say: "I want that canon.. Not excuses..."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK boys and girls, check it out...

Spidey is clinging to a metal beam or the wall, and the Jedi/Sith cannot budge him.

Well....

All the Jedi/Sith has to do is use force choke or lightning, OR force hold Spidey to the wall or the beam, so that Spidey cannot spring away, then close in for the saber kill.

When do we see anyone simutaneously "Hold and Kill with sabre or lightning" in the movies...?

Or even using two force abilities at the same time...?
At no time whatsoever...?

Oh.
😉

Odd that you accused Pro-spideys of over-speculation earlier.
Very odd.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes. Crispy: Not how Palps looks.

So he uses one sith power then next minute decides not to use a sith power in the next scene becuase ....its a sith power...?

Why then, did he not then simply just choke it a bit then, like the gammorreans to give it the message...?

Because the theory that he could do it is rubbish.
Besides, we have to just go with what was on screen, dont we.

As Vader would say: "I want that canon.. Not excuses..."

And the theory of Luke using a Sith power to avoid a violent confrontation is about as Jedi as it gets.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
When do we see anyone simutaneously "Hold and Kill with sabre or lightning" in the movies...?

Or even using two force abilities at the same time...?
At no time whatsoever...?

Oh.
😉

Odd that you accused Pro-spideys of over-speculation earlier.
Very odd.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I said a Jedi could use force hold and close in for the saber kill. Or use force lightning instead of force hold.

Originally posted by Bardock42
When did a Jedi portray any type of Force Hold again?

Jedi/Sith, Dooku, episode 3. Force hold is a very basic force attack.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

And where was all that blue slug tattooing put on Anakin in CW, on Anakin in ROTS...?
Oh that was cartoon EU rubbish too.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Jedi/Sith, Dooku, episode 3. Force hold is a very basic force attack.

Not my question. I asked, when did a Jedi do so?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right back atcha. No one can break a force hold/choke in the movies, so Spider man, even thought he has mad strength. cannot break a force hold/choke. CANON, as you say 😄

And the theory of Luke using a Sith power to avoid a violent confrontation is about as Jedi as it gets.

Show me where it is statsed in the SW movies that Spidermen cannot escape Force holds and you'll have proved your canon point.

Then the Jedi wouldnt do those nasty, nasty things to Spidey then, since you cite morals.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
What was the armour Goblin was wearing made of...?

Durable shit, obviously. 😄

Since we know it was made of plastic, leather, and cloth (in the real world) it should have been shattered. ALso, Spiderman's clothes would probably have taken more damage in the real world, too. I liked the damage and burn marks and singes that they put on his outfit in 1.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I know Clone Wars reeeally well, but as it was EU, we simplky cannot accept it.

Indeed. I agree with you whole heartedly as the rules in this vs. forum are specific.

However, some EU material is tied so closely to some of the PT material in themovies that it can't be denied.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Why didnt Mace use his CW depicted Machine gun fists that he defeated a clone army with against anything in the movies...?
(Another drum roll please)......... Because the cartoon was bollocks.

He lost his light saber and had to use Vaapad via hand to hand. 😐

He never lost his saber in RoTS. (Excluding the few seconds of his death.)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And the new CW series has an alternate take on that, as in the original series, Grevious was upright and had no cough/ a different voice until Mace did that. But now in this CW set before those events, they have revised that. Ergo: It doesnt happen in this.

I seriously can't make heads or tails of what your saying. I think you're making a point to counter mine, but it seems you are saying I'm right. You do know the CW (cartoon, not CG) ended right where RoTS picks up, don't you? You do know that Grevious received his damage towards the end of CW(cartoon), don't you? You do know the time line in the CG animated series, don't you?

Maybe I'm missing it. You could be saying I'm right. So I apologize if I have idiotically gone on the defensive. (Wouldn't be the first time.)

Edit. When do the events occur, relative to the 2003 animated series, of the new CG series? And when did Mace use force crush on Grevious? If you find the answer to that question, then you will agree with me.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And where was all that blue slug tattooing put on Anakin in CW, on Anakin in ROTS...?
Oh that was cartoon EU rubbish too.

It's gone towards the end. It wasn't really a tattoo. It was more like that stuff people do in india. Maybe even paint.

Do you honestly think they would have made such a massive error like that? I mean, seriously? All the long hours spent on that and working with GL to sneak in little tidbits for the fans, and you think that would make such a massive blunder like that?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So this is all EU irrelevancy.
Even the shatter point stuff.

No, none of it is. You didn't refute anything. You didn't even attempt to refute the shatterpoint point. The only thing I've seen from you is making incorrect claims.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And btw, the lightning didnt burn his face, it just dropped his Palpatine mask appearance is all.

Sorry if that comes out offensive...you've made too many travesties made against the Star Wars story.

Quote one credible source for that. I can quote many sources that disagree with you.

Do you want to start with the third biggest source?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_III:_Revenge_of_the_Sith#Sidious_Revealed

Why is this the third biggest source? Because its fan edited. Don't you think that it would have been changed by some rabid fan out there who knew the "right" circumstances? Obviously. However, he didn't have a Palpatine mask. That is NOWHERE in all of the EU, movie, or GL commentary.

The second best source would be the book. Best would be the movie (screenplay, movie itself, GL commentary, etc. I group that all into "the movie"😉

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
(Unless you believe that lightning DOES that to teeth of course.
And unless you believe that Luke looked like Palpatine at the end of ROTJ.. )

You can come up with anything logical that you want. You're still wrong. 😐 I often wondered why GL decided to go that route. I think that there's an explanation of why Mace's reflection caused the burning and why Luke didn't get burned. I am quite sure Ushgarak would know.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
When do we see anyone simutaneously "Hold and Kill with sabre or lightning" in the movies...?

Or even using two force abilities at the same time...?
At no time whatsoever...?

Oh.
😉

Odd that you accused Pro-spideys of over-speculation earlier.
Very odd.

When Palps killed Mace, he used the force to use both force lightening and the force pull/pull thing to throw him out the window. However, Palps is quite awesome.

We get to see that Force lightening can be just simple lightening, or it can have a kinetic impact on the target.

I reckon youre right on the first call.

Okay so anyone other than Palps...?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Durable shit, obviously. 😄

Since we know it was made of plastic, leather, and cloth (in the real world) it should have been shattered. ALso, Spiderman's clothes would probably have taken more damage in the real world, too. I liked the damage and burn marks and singes that they put on his outfit in 1.

Indeed. I agree with you whole heartedly as the rules in this vs. forum are specific.

However, some EU material is tied so closely to some of the PT material in themovies that it can't be denied.

He lost his light saber and had to use Vaapad via hand to hand. 😐

He never lost his saber in RoTS. (Excluding the few seconds of his death.)

I seriously can't make heads or tails of what your saying. I think you're making a point to counter mine, but it seems you are saying I'm right. You do know the CW (cartoon, not CG) ended right where RoTS picks up, don't you? You do know that Grevious received his damage towards the end of CW(cartoon), don't you? You do know the time line in the CG animated series, don't you?

Maybe I'm missing it. You could be saying I'm right. So I apologize if I have idiotically gone on the defensive. (Wouldn't be the first time.)

It's gone towards the end. It wasn't really a tattoo. It was more like that stuff people do in india. Maybe even paint.

Do you honestly think they would have made such a massive error like that? I mean, seriously? All the long hours spent on that and working with GL to sneak in little tidbits for the fans, and you think that would make such a massive blunder like that?

No, none of it is. You didn't refute anything. You didn't even attempt to refute the shatterpoint point. The only thing I've seen from you is making incorrect claims.

Sorry if that comes out offensive...you've made too many travesties made against the Star Wars story.

Quote one credible source for that. I can quote many sources that disagree with you.

Do you want to start with the third biggest source?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_III:_Revenge_of_the_Sith#Sidious_Revealed

Why is this the third biggest source? Because its fan edited. Don't you think that it would have been changed by some rabid fan out there who knew the "right" circumstances? Obviously. However, he didn't have a Palpatine mask. That is NOWHERE in all of the EU, movie, or GL commentary.

The second best source would be the book. Best would be the movie (screenplay, movie itself, GL commentary, etc. I group that all into "the movie"😉

You can come up with anything logical that you want. You're still wrong. 😐 I often wondered why GL decided to go that route. I think that there's an explanation of why Mace's reflection caused the burning and why Luke didn't get burned. I am quite sure Ushgarak would know.

Sorry you're not qualified to make that "Im wrong" assertion.
Especially as an abandoner of logic.
Particularly in this thread where everything must be non-EU.

So no logic in the world counts in arguments...? Then debate with someone else, as I refuse to go full retard, man.

Vaaapad. More EU rubbish, I suggest good sir, that it is you who are not only travestising SW but [i]this thread also with all these thoroughly EU non-points. [/i].

Yes. The point is that Clone Wars is EU. It matters not that it featured a rather cool battle of coruscant. But, since the current CW series is a different take on events, we'll see how the more recent/revised/official version takes that angle....

But since the movie shows no crush damage to Grevious' chest cage unlike how it was depicted in the CARTOON.....

Will the Ewoks/droids shows be used next as an argument against what we see on screen in the SW movies...? 🙄

I just watched the end of Chapter 25 again. Anakin still has the blue marking across his scar on his face. I have no idea why Genndy would have it there. However, it is not there when Episode III starts. Collaboration was undertaken with GL to make it a transitional piece to Episode III.

But until the start of the theatrical ROTS, its all EU.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Sorry you're not qualified to make that "Im wrong" assertion.

I need no qualifications to show that you're wrong. No one needs any qualifications to show that you were wrong.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Especially as an abandoner of logic.

Just because there is a an error in the plot concerning force lightening, doesn't mean you can make up your own stuff about the story. You are wrong. There's no arguing that.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Particularly in this thread where everything must be non-EU.

I am not the one making stuff up.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So no logic in the world counts in arguments...?

You can call that portion of the story illogical and I agree. However, it is what it is and you were wrong.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Then debate with someone else, as I refuse to go full retard, man.

You don't have to give up just because you were wrong. I agree that it is illogical. But that's how it is.

Also, leave the insults out, please. There's no reason to get that serious with this. Besides, RJ and Robtard just got done getting in trouble. There's no reason that you and I can't keep civil.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Vaaapad. More EU rubbish, I suggest good sir, that it is you who are not only travestising SW but [i]this thread also with all these thoroughly EU non-points. [/i].

It is what it is. Grevious has his cough from force crush in episode 25 of Star Wars clone wars. It was a collaboration between GL and Tartakovsky. It happened. It was intentional. It was a direct tie-in to the movie done on purpose.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes. The point is that Clone Wars is EU.

With specific cannon tie-ins made under collaboration.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
It matters not that it featured a rather cool battle of coruscant. But, since the current CW series is a different take on events, we'll see how the more recent/revised/official version takes that angle....

But since the movie shows no crush damage to Grevious' chest cage unlike how it was depicted in the CARTOON.....

Since my question to you earlier is going unnoticed to you, I'll answer it for you. There was a time skip in the Cartoon of Clone Wars. All the events of Clone Wars take place before chapters 24 and 25. (And maybe 23...I'll have to go back and watch it again.) Grevious didn't get the smack down until 25. Therefore, you are 100% wrong. 😐

Also, why the hell wouldn't Grevious get his cyborg suit repaired by a repair droid? Anakin certainly had time to get a new arm made and attached before his slug paintings wore off.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Will the Ewoks/droids shows be used next as an argument against what we see on screen in the SW movies...? 🙄

Against? I see what you did there.

Well, my friend, it is you using your own made up plot that is arguing against the Star Wars story line. 😐 So, it would be you who should be assigned "against".

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But until the start of the theatrical ROTS, its all EU.

My point is NOT to show that the EU SHOULD be used, it is to show how closely together they were tied in for Episode III. You wanted to know where force crush was used, so I indicated where it was used on Grevious and Grevious shows signs of that damage in Episode III. Since episode III is cannon, and GL and Tartakovsky made a collaborative effort to INCLUDE that in Chapter 25 and continue it in Episode III, what happened to Grevious would have to be semi-cannon, at the least. That was my only point. I do NOT want to continue to talk about something that was an aside that was only intended as an FYI.

Edit-
Now, for the sake of the debate, Force Crush is cannon. I said it is, and that is final. Imp can make a ruling on that if he'd like. However, only one person can use it and that is Mace. Since Mace would make hamburger meat of Spiderman anyway, there's no need to give him one of his signature powers. If others would like to use force crush as an example, I would say that it fails to be an example of any power except for Mace's.

Double edit- I hope you know that I wasn't serous about it being cannon. 😐 However, one cannot be without the other. If Imp wants to allow Mace his force crush, that's fine, but I still think it doesn't belong in here.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Show me where it is statsed in the SW movies that Spidermen cannot escape Force holds and you'll have proved your canon point.

Then the Jedi wouldnt do those nasty, nasty things to Spidey then, since you cite morals.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Show me where it is statsed in the SW movies that Spidermen cannot escape Force holds and you'll have proved your canon point.

Then the Jedi wouldnt do those nasty, nasty things to Spidey then, since you cite morals.

The moral code must be stated by the thread starter in the opening post while conditions are being set. Since it was not stated, well, you get the picture.

Also, how is a force hold nasty?