Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No RH, Nai has not been over this. The Quey'tek technique won't stop an instakill.
My initials are 'RN'.
Also, it may not stop an instakill but it will avert an instakill. Dooku can't have his connection to the force destroyed (or consumed or annihilated or whatever) if it can't be found. That's what the Quey'tek technique will do.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI said i think the two of them can probably pull it off. TOGETHER!
Dooku is powerful enough to take on and defeat two powerful [b]Dark Lords of the Sith simultaneously? Am I missing something? 🙄
If Dooku was that damn good than Sidious would'nt have to look for a more powerful apprentice. Dooku would be sufficient to carry Sidious' agenda.No. Sidious wanted an apprentice potentially more powerful than he was, and Dooku was not. That does not mean Traya is more poweful than Dooku, unless you are saying she is Sidious's equal?
Dooku was good and all but he wasn't a "Force Titan" like Darth Sidious, as some people here are trying to portray him to be. I am willing to bet that even George Lucas will agree with me on this.
Who portrayed him to be "like" Sidious? Traya is also on a way lower level than Sidious.
And how Dooku will be able to block Traya's Force Sever attack? Being "powerful" is not enough. Please do mention a defensive technique, which Dooku can use to block the Force Sever attack (if he really knows one such).Well as Faunus said, that is dubious. We never see Traya use the drain on an individual as powerful as Dooku. I don't think Dooku would give her a chance. He can use TK or lightning just as fast as she can use her drain.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
My initials are 'RN'.Also, it may not stop an instakill but it will avert an instakill. Dooku can't have his connection to the force destroyed (or consumed or annihilated or whatever) if it can't be found. [b]That's
what the Quey'tek technique will do. [/B]
The only way this arguement works, is if you are saying Dooku walks into this battle pretending not to be force sensitive. Quey'tek is usually used when a force user does not want their presence known. As long as she knows Dooku is a force sensitive, she can most likely use the drain on him.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The only way this arguement works, is if you are saying Dooku walks into this battle pretending not to be force sensitive. Quey'tek is usually used when a force user does not want their presence known. As long as she knows Dooku is a force sensitive, she can most likely use the drain on him.
exactly
And has it been proven that kreia can simply wave her hand and kill any jedi or sith, especially those on the levels of dooku?
That technique is seriously overrated, it drops 3 nobodies in the force who happen to be masters and then some people assume it can cause force users like dooku to drop easily as well.
Originally posted by DorianYates
And has it been proven that kreia can simply wave her hand and kill any jedi or sith, especially those on the levels of dooku?
That technique is seriously overrated, it drops 3 nobodies in the force who happen to be masters and then some people assume it can cause force users like dooku to drop easily as well.
Hilarious logic. These were 3 masters of the high council. The fact that you'd call them nobodies because they died from a force drain is laughable. I'll use your logic. Dooku pwned nobodies like Ventress and force neophytes like Skywalker and Obiwan, so people automatically assume he could do it to someone of Traya's abilities. Or rather, Traya AND Dooku.
You have absolutely no argument.
DS, these arguments are surprisingly weak. Some of them are simply not so.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This is irrelevant. First, you'd have to prove there's a defense for this technique.
While we cannot simply assume that there was a form of protection invented, it seems very likely (as the advent of any form of protection may have rendered the technique worthless anyway).
That's one way to look at it.
My view is that an attack must have a target. Any assault on a Force connection must first find that Force connection. I wonder... is there a technique that hides one's connection to the Force?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Secondly, you'd have to prove DOOKU had a defense for this technique. Finally, if this is the route you're going to go, then I'd like for you to prove any of Dooku's techniques would work on someone as powerful as Traya.
As far as Dooku's attacks landing on his opponents, we have to look at the types of attacks Dooku uses. The most common ones are direct assaults using some force (non-mystical, although powered by the Force) of nature. Lightning, TK manipulation and Force Choke (which is essentially TK, I guess) are all corporeal attacks that operate on physical matter. The target's personal power level doesn't seem to have any effect on the outcome unless the target is actively defending. Kreia and Malak haven't been shown to be able to catch/handle Force lightning, or even mount a simple Force-based defense. At all. For the purposes of Force fights they are absolutely defenseless except for their lightsaber(s) (to catch lightning).
Originally posted by Darth SexyHilarious logic. These were 3 masters of the high council. The fact that you'd call them nobodies because they died from a force drain is laughable.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'll use your logic. Dooku pwned nobodies like Ventress and force neophytes like Skywalker and Obiwan, so people automatically assume he could do it to someone of Traya's abilities. Or rather, Traya AND Dooku.
Anyway, this is a faulty analogy: The people you mentioned weren't nobodies. To jump from 3 unknown (and unaccomplished) masters to a top-tier combatant like Dooku is entirely different from jumping from [edit] some of [/edit] the PT era's finest to an unsuccessful Sith Lord and a runner up.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You have absolutely no argument.
You say that a lot, to a lot of different people. Repetition won't make it true, nor will it make the mirror any kinder.
(That was a rubber/glue burn. For the record, I am rubber and you are glue, so whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.)
((Childish insults don't get you anywhere or make your argument any stronger. I hope you've understood this.))
(((I am rubber, though[/i]...)))
EDIT: My bad, I accidentally quoted you as Forum Ninja a troll.
[..] or even mount a simple Force-based defense. At all. For the purposes of Force fights they are absolutely defenseless except for their lightsaber(s) (to catch lightning).Why are we assuming that two of the most prominent Force-users of the era are incapable of doing something that younglings are taught before even touching a lightsaber (countering telekinesis)?
Whether they can actually dissipate Dooku's telekinetic attacks is another story, but the two are almost certainly capable of at least mounting a defense.
Originally posted by Publius II
Why are we assuming that two of the most prominent Force-users of the era are incapable of doing something that younglings are taught before even touching a lightsaber (countering telekinesis)?Whether they can actually dissipate Dooku's telekinetic attacks is another story, but the two are almost certainly capable of at least mounting a defense.
Because it makes them look bad...
In all seriousness, the Force bubble defense/TK coping mechanisms aren't ever shown in the VERY early parts of the Saga. Is there any evidence that the technique exists yet?
Originally posted by Red NemesisNope. But to state otherwise is to assume that they all waded into battle completely incapable of defending themselves against a telekinetic attack, telepathic suggestion, or any variant of lightning or drain.
Because it makes them look bad...In all seriousness, the Force bubble defense/TK coping mechanisms aren't ever shown in the VERY early parts of the Saga. Is there any evidence that the technique exists yet?
And keep in mind that Traya specifically notes that the technique employed by Nihilus (and herself?) is one against which "there is no defense." This implies that it is at least unusual for there to be no defense to a given technique, and considering how basic telekinesis is, that's far too much of a stretch.
Nope. But to state otherwise is to assume that they all waded into battle completely incapable of defending themselves against a telekinetic attack, telepathic suggestion, or any variant of lightning or drain.
And keep in mind that Traya specifically notes that the technique employed by Nihilus (and herself?) is one against which "there is no defense." This implies that it is at least unusual for there to be no defense to a given technique, and considering how basic telekinesis is, that's far too much of a stretch.
...
I'm saying stupid things now, what with all the conjecture n' stuff. Still, the likelyhood of Kreia/Malak's defenses to be superior (in nature, ignoring the amount of power used to fuel them) to Dooku's is exceedingly unlikely.
Originally posted by Red NemesisOkay.
Mental attacks (Force Suggestion) would be defended against simply by will. But you're right- it would be ridiculous. I will have to reconsider.True dat. Is it possible that instinctive resistance accounts for their defenses?
...
I'm saying stupid things now, what with all the conjecture n' stuff. Still, the likelyhood of Kreia/Malak's defenses to be superior (in nature, ignoring the amount of power used to fuel them) to Dooku's is exceedingly unlikely.
And you misspelled "likelihood."
Seeing how RN already made a rebuta;, i am only going to address a minor part of your post.
Originally posted by Darth SexyI don't have to considering your the one thats claiming it(the "ub3r" drain) will drop anybody down.
This is irrelevant. First, you'd have to prove there's a defense for this technique. Secondly, you'd have to prove DOOKU had a defense for this technique. Finally, if this is the route you're going to go, then I'd like for you to prove any of Dooku's techniques would work on someone as powerful as Traya.
If anyone that needs to do the proving, it is certainly you DS, im not trying to be hostile or anything, just want to make that clear.
Originally posted by Darth SexyVery hilarious actually considering that those 3 masters had nothing to substantiate their power, ohhhhhhhh they were jedi masters, which means absolute jack.
Hilarious logic. These were 3 masters of the high council. The fact that you'd call them nobodies because they died from a force drain is laughable. I'll use your logic. Dooku pwned nobodies like Ventress and force neophytes like Skywalker and Obiwan, so people automatically assume he could do it to someone of Traya's abilities. Or rather, Traya AND Dooku.You have absolutely no argument.
Going by your logic i guess ventress is a ub3r l33t dark jedi seeing she has killed at least what? A large numbwer of jedi masters(going by what RN and publius II said if i didn't read it wrong).
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
DS, these arguments are surprisingly weak. Some of them are simply not so.
Well, to do that one would first need to define the attack. For the majority of the thread I think that the attack being discussed is one with no defense ("There are techniques in the Force against which there are no defense..."😉 at the time of KotOR2. For the purposes of the thread it has been defined as an attack on the Force connection of an individual. By rapidly closing (severing?) the target's connection to the Force, severe mental (this was a psychologically based attack) strain or trauma can be caused.
While we cannot simply assume that there was a form of protection invented, it seems very likely (as the advent of any form of protection may have rendered the technique worthless anyway).That's one way to look at it.
My view is that an attack must have a target. Any assault on a Force connection must first find that Force connection. I wonder... is there a technique that hides one's connection to the Force?
[/b]
The answer was 'Quey'tek' and Dooku is definitely familiar with it. So, Dooku does have a defense for it.
As far as Dooku's attacks landing on his opponents, we have to look at the types of attacks Dooku uses. The most common ones are direct assaults using some force (non-mystical, although powered by the Force) of nature. Lightning, TK manipulation and Force Choke (which is essentially TK, I guess) are all corporeal attacks that operate on physical matter. The target's personal power level doesn't seem to have any effect on the outcome unless the target is actively defending. Kreia and Malak haven't been shown to be able to catch/handle Force lightning, or even mount a simple Force-based defense. At all. For the purposes of Force fights they are absolutely defenseless except for their lightsaber(s) (to catch lightning).[/quoet]
Uh, you're arguing Dooku has the ability to block lightning because he reflected Yoda's reflection? That's hardly the same thing as reflecting a direct lightning blast. Furthermore, Traya and Malak have shown sufficient knowledge of the force choke, and Malak has shown sufficient knowledge of force lightning. While there is no direct evidence showing Traya's use of force lightning, everybody around her uses it including her apprentices, so it's sufficient to logically deduce that she can. So what is Dooku going to do exactly?[quote]They are nobodies because they haven't done anything. Nothing suggests that they were on Dooku's level (who was "one of the greatest Jedi in 25000 years" blah blah blah... this is a direct comparrison: Dooku is one of the greatest in an order to which they belonged. Therefore, he is one of the greatest in their order. Has anything called Kavar one of the greatest anything?) or that they were even particularly powerful.
[/b]
Anyway, this is a faulty analogy: The people you mentioned weren't nobodies. To jump from 3 unknown (and unaccomplished) masters to a top-tier combatant like Dooku is entirely different from jumping from [edit] some of [/edit] the PT era's finest to an unsuccessful Sith Lord and a runner up.
I'm still waiting on a valid argument as to how Dooku would defeat Traya and Malak. Let me guess. Because he's (insert quotes here)?
Originally posted by DorianYates
Seeing how RN already made a rebuta;, i am only going to address a minor part of your post.
I don't have to considering your the one thats claiming it(the "ub3r" drain) will drop anybody down.
If anyone that needs to do the proving, it is certainly you DS, im not trying to be hostile or anything, just want to make that clear.
Very hilarious actually considering that those 3 masters had nothing to substantiate their power, ohhhhhhhh they were jedi masters, which means absolute jack.
Going by your logic i guess ventress is a ub3r l33t dark jedi seeing she has killed at least what? A large numbwer of jedi masters(going by what RN and publius II said if i didn't read it wrong).