Originally posted by OneDumbG0um there r stories produced by the singular co.s that don't always add up. The storu is canon. Period. No amount of hate or disessection will change that. The adventure cleary happened in the current verses. That is obvious as they had to figure out a way to bring the dead guys back thru time flucations. U can post blobs of text till tomorrow and the story will still be canon. Approved by both dc and marvel.
facepalmYou're completely incorrect. You need to reread JLA/Avengers again. The combination reality of Eternity and Kismet doesn't happen until after the artifacts have been gathered and Grandmaster uses them to merge the two realities. The Avengers and JLA go running around in each other's universes and their own universes to recover the scattered artifacts before the merged reality.
And I'd appreciate it if you don't mischaracterize me as screaming. As if screaming would take away the truth of my statements. I'm not screaming. I'm exasperrated at having to explain such obvious and indisputable facts to people who are resistant to the rules simply because it serves their own opinions. You're saying it's canon because it makes sense to you (but not to others) and even though the adventure clearly happens in alternate universe(s) and there's some vague reference in a handbook? Batman/Punisher makes perfect sense to me except it happens in an alternate universe. I wouldn't use a vague reference in one company's handbook to support it's canonicity.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestfacepalm
Gotham IS New York, or at least a older name for it.
The idea of Gotham may be New York, yes, but neither on Earth-0 or the 616 Marvel Universe is that true. The Statue of Liberty is not in Gotham as far as I recall. Either way, in Batman/Punisher they are two separate and distinct locations in that alternate universe. Batman pretty much tells him to get out of Gotham and go back to New York and Punisher acquiesces.
Originally posted by fangirl101facepalm
um there r stories produced by the singular co.s that don't always add up. The storu is canon. Period. No amount of hate or disessection will change that. The adventure cleary happened in the current verses. That is obvious as they had to figure out a way to bring the dead guys back thru time flucations. U can post blobs of text till tomorrow and the story will still be canon. Approved by both dc and marvel.
The story occurs in very similar but absolutely alternate universes. Who cares if they were almost similar? Batman in the Punisher/Batman story was just coming back from having his back broken by Bane. Just because it references canon events doesn't make the god damn story canon! So no, bringing back dead guys (which they'd also have to do in an extremely similar analogue alternate universe) does NOT make it obviously canon. Jebus.
Whether or not it is a crossover is irrelevant. Whether or not there are feats that scream PIS is irrelevant. The adventure clearly happens in alternate universes. Get over it. Stop overgeneralizing on ambiguities and handbooks and ignoring the simple truth: IT'S NOT CANON.
Originally posted by Avlon
Yea, it's not like Supes hasn't beaten him in h2h.Get over it, it's happened.
And you still haven't answered my question. Can Nefaria beat DS in a fight?
Badabing and I have discussed this at length, and have decided to make an addition to the rules:
No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).
This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.
This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.
I'm sure there are plenty of other sources you can use to make on topic arguments, guys.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0And it's still canon lulz. The Krona Egg which the cosmic egg rights are owned by marvel are enough that both companies recognize this. Sorry you feel the way you do. But your feelings dont' dictate what is reality.
facepalmThe story occurs in very similar but absolutely alternate universes. Who cares if they were almost similar? Batman in the Punisher/Batman story was just coming back from having his back broken by Bane. Just because it references canon events doesn't make the god damn story canon! So no, bringing back dead guys (which they'd also have to do in an extremely similar analogue alternate universe) does NOT make it obviously canon. Jebus.
Whether or not it is a crossover is irrelevant. Whether or not there are feats that scream PIS is irrelevant. The adventure clearly happens in alternate universes. Get over it. Stop overgeneralizing on ambiguities and handbooks and ignoring the simple truth: IT'S NOT CANON.
Originally posted by RaoulWell I guess we can just screw Trinity since the Krona Egg comes from the JLA Avengers story which happens to be part of it's continuity. No more Trinity Discussions either since you have effectively barred using Part of it's continuity for disccussion. Thanks for the heads up. Thought policing is where the forum is headed? Pretty soon the forum will ban people who don't agree with the majority. 🙁
Badabing and I have discussed this at length, and have decided to make an addition to the rules:I'm sure there are plenty of other sources you can use to make on topic arguments, guys.
Originally posted by fangirl101*waits anxiously for your ban* droolio
Well I guess we can just screw Trinity since the Krona Egg comes from the JLA Avengers story which happens to be part of it's continuity. No more Trinity Discussions either since you have effectively barred using Part of it's continuity for disccussion. Thanks for the heads up. Thought policing is where the forum is headed? Pretty soon the forum will ban people who don't agree with the majority. 🙁
Originally posted by fangirl101
Well I guess we can just screw Trinity since the Krona Egg comes from the JLA Avengers story which happens to be part of it's continuity. No more Trinity Discussions either since you have effectively barred using Part of it's continuity for disccussion. Thanks for the heads up. Thought policing is where the forum is headed? Pretty soon the forum will ban people who don't agree with the majority. 🙁
That's not what it is at all. Crossovers in general are looked on pretty unfavourably, and in most cases, its warranted. This is a Count Nefaria Vs Superman fight. I'm sure there are other comics people can use to make their arguments.
We're talking about one more crossover to complete the bunch, thats all. We're not banning arcs are storylines exclusive to either company, of which there are plenty.
remember when people wanted wolverine origins banned? it didn't happen, and it won't happen. crossovers are the exception, not the rule.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestThat's cool, Gotham is NOT New York though.
" The Statue of Liberty is not in Gotham as far as I recall"Lady Gotham was referenced in the animated cartoon a few times, not sure about the comics.
Do you read Nightwing? Dick went back to Gotham from New York in the last Nightwing comic.
Originally posted by RaoulWhen you ban The JLA Cross over which is canon per the companies themselves, then you ban feats for characters on both sides that are valid to the characters. I like the Superman Thor Fight. I like the Wondy scene with Quasar. I like the Monica Rambeau GL thing. Those are all things that are agreeable to use in debates and make sense.
That's not what it is at all. Crossovers in general are looked on pretty unfavourably, and in most cases, its warranted. This is a Count Nefaria Vs Superman fight. I'm sure there are other comics people can use to make their arguments.We're talking about one more crossover to complete the bunch, thats all. We're not banning arcs are storylines exclusive to either company, of which there are plenty.
remember when people wanted wolverine origins banned? it didn't happen, and it won't happen. crossovers are the exception, not the rule.
^ Batman catching Punisher's left hook makes sense. But that wasn't actually New Earth Batman or 616 Punisher though. Just drop it. However the Mods decided the way they decided is irrelevant. It's the rules now and IMHO as you know, technically speaking, it's always been the rules.
Originally posted by Raoul👆
That's not what it is at all. Crossovers in general are looked on pretty unfavourably, and in most cases, its warranted. This is a Count Nefaria Vs Superman fight. I'm sure there are other comics people can use to make their arguments.We're talking about one more crossover to complete the bunch, thats all. We're not banning arcs are storylines exclusive to either company, of which there are plenty.
remember when people wanted wolverine origins banned? it didn't happen, and it won't happen. crossovers are the exception, not the rule.
Back to the topic on hand, did maxed out Count Nefaria further use his power draining abilities? If not, was he to able to?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Lulz. He's in fact saying the cross over is canon but cant' be used becuz it's too controversial. Don't get too happy. Matter of fact, I tire of your style of debate anyway. Perma Ignore.
:upBack to the topic on hand, did maxed out Count Nefaria further use his power draining abilities? If not, was he to able to?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No matter how many times you say it is in self-serving arguments, it is not canon. The scattered artifacts' locations makes JLA/Avengers impossible just as a canon story. Forget the stupidity that some of the fights showed. Most of the artifacts couldn't have been where they were at that approximate stage in history when JLA/Avengers supposedly took place. Nuff said.
It may be a bad story, it may be illogical but it surely is canon. You may like it or not, for you it may be not canon for marvel and dc it was, you have to life with it.
Originally posted by Raoul
Badabing and I have discussed this at length, and have decided to make an addition to the rules:I'm sure there are plenty of other sources you can use to make on topic arguments, guys.
I don't want to derail this thread even further, but I have to ask. Can it be referenced in future debates? It's obviously not primary canon, and it would be rather silly to base an entire argument on one crossover. Is it relevant at all? Will I get bant if I even mention it? ( 😛 )
What I'm asking really, is that, does it have any weight in an argument? Can it be used with some proof from main canon?
