Superboy Prime vs Darkseid (h2h)

At least though you guys have conceded that the ALE is way more then the quotes you guys originally said lol. Furthermore, you have conceded that DS didn't cause most of what happened under his own power. He couldn't have just waved his hand and caused space and time to collaspe lol. I can't believe you ignored what was on panel and instead tried to hide behind ooo it's his true form. Like he could've just easily folded space and time this whole time yet never did lol. The reason because the war and him falling into a lower dimension and his mastery of the ale caused most of it. Some of it was obviously his importance and some power in the senes that once the ball got rolling the war, him falling, singularity etc then sure he went with it and used some power. Who knows when and how but that is fine. However, to say he could just do it with a gesture is hilarious and ignores what's on panel. He never has and never could period.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
So you refuse to even consider the idea of Darkseid's full manifestation in a lower realm as the reason for space time's collapse?

Orion was here in boomtubed form, that's the difference.

Even after FC stated the impact of his fall caused the singularity he refuses to consider it. Even when the guardians state the destructive emanations warping space time are coming from DS. 😬

Worse, even after secret files describe it as an equation that disproves the concept of free will.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
At least though you guys have conceded that the ALE is way more then the quotes you guys originally said lol. Furthermore, you have conceded that DS didn't cause most of what happened under his own power. He couldn't have just waved his hand and caused space and time to collaspe lol. I can't believe you ignored what was on panel and instead tried to hide behind ooo it's his true form. Like he could've just easily folded space and time this whole time yet never did lol. The reason because the war and him falling into a lower dimension and his mastery of the ale caused most of it. Some of it was obviously his importance and some power in the senes that once the ball got rolling the war, him falling, singularity etc then sure he went with it and used some power. Who knows when and how but that is fine. However, to say he could just do it with a gesture is hilarious and ignores what's on panel. He never has and never could period.

You never answered my question. No matter, we both could see where that was heading.

Originally posted by fangirl101
There is no evidence what so ever that the ALE gave DS that kind of power. The whole story goes against that theory since DS was taking over people's minds via the web and shit. What kind of power up is the ALE if he has to use helmets and the web to take over? If the ALE makes all reality under one's rule, why the slow process? makes no sense what so ever that the ale gave DS anything more than the power to strip free will.

Don't revert. You know better than most, that the ALE does more than strip free will. It makes people Darkseid, that is indisputable. You're just resistant to the idea that it makes all existence Darkseid, despite everything in existence mirroring exactly what is happening to Darkseid himself.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You never answered my question. No matter, we both could see where that was heading.
Mokkari cracked time and space with it. Life Equation fixes Multiverse. Cain orders Spectre to unmake creation and reshape it into Darkseid's form. Etc, etc, etc.
[B]the absences of their free will is an antithesis of life - anti-life.

The ALE turned Earth's technology into a weapon against the concept of free will, the beginning of the end.

No. The Spectre spread out the ALE to enslave more souls, to unmake the old god's gift (free will) and replace it with anti-life. Read Revelations from issue 1 for the specifics.

The plan for unmaking creation was to disprove the old god's concept of free will, which is what Revelations is all about form issue # 1.

You're the one completely missing the picture, by reshaping life DS reshapes creation (since sentient beings are the creation).

Here we see what the concept of free will, means. It is the divine spark in all sentient life, taking it away unmakes god's creation. As we see with these ALE victims, the absences of their free will is an antithesis of life - anti-life.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You never answered my question. No matter, we both could see where that was heading.
Mokkari cracked time and space with it. Life Equation fixes Multiverse. Cain orders Spectre to unmake creation and reshape it into Darkseid's form. Etc, etc, etc.

Don't revert. You know better than most, that the ALE does more than strip free will. It makes people Darkseid, that is indisputable. You're just resistant to the idea that it makes all existence Darkseid, despite everything in existence mirroring exactly what is happening to Darkseid himself.

God's gift to mankind was free will. Where there is no free will...

...Anti-Life.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You never answered my question. No matter, we both could see where that was heading.
Mokkari cracked time and space with it. Life Equation fixes Multiverse. Cain orders Spectre to unmake creation and reshape it into Darkseid's form. Etc, etc, etc.

Don't revert. You know better than most, that the ALE does more than strip free will. It makes people Darkseid, that is indisputable. You're just resistant to the idea that it makes all existence Darkseid, despite everything in existence mirroring exactly what is happening to Darkseid himself.

Don't know what you 2 are arguing about, the ALE replaces free will and replaces it with Darkseids will. If everyone in existence is taken over by the ALE which makes you Darkseid. Again the Miracle Machine never fixed the Multiverse, that was done by the GL Corps and Supermen of the Multiverse as they pulled Earth 0 back to its original spot. Everything that all the evil New Gods did, was they was willed to do by Darkseid himself. Orion was boomtubed as it is the only reason hes that size, he was also not evil or nearly trying to replace the Source.

Originally posted by Allankles
No. The Spectre spread out the ALE to enslave more souls, to unmake the old god's gift (free will) and replace it with anti-life. Read Revelations from issue 1 for the specifics.

They are separate things. And what does Cain specifically command Spectre to do? "Unmake creation. Rebuild the world in Darkseid's name!"

Reread all of Final Crisis: Revelations for the specifics, thanks much.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And I am Thinking Superman and the wish machine fixed the situation. with the monitor's rebuilding the multiverse. Or something like that. I sure as hell didnt' see Mokkari. And if the ALE literally controlled all time and space, Then Mandrakk would have had a big problem with DS. Since the Multiverse was actually mandrakk's brain.

Mandrakk was separate and apart from the Multiverse, he was the first Monitor. He fed off the stories of the Multiverse. Mandrakk only attacked AFTER DS was disposed with. Reread Final Crisis #7. Even when Grant Morrison offers a disjointed narrative, Superman destroys Darkseid with counter-vibrations and THEN Mandrakk appears AFTER Superman loses his voice.

Originally posted by kevdude
Don't know what you 2 are arguing about, the ALE replaces free will and replaces it with Darkseids will. If everyone in existence is taken over by the ALE which makes you Darkseid. Again the Miracle Machine never fixed the Multiverse, that was done by the GL Corps and Supermen of the Multiverse as they pulled Earth 0 back to its original spot. Everything that all the evil New Gods did, was they was willed to do by Darkseid himself. Orion was boomtubed as it is the only reason hes that size, he was also not evil or nearly trying to replace the Source.

So... Prime kills Darkseid?

Originally posted by Mekrob
So... Prime kills Darkseid?

SBP vs. Darkseid has nothing to do with this thread.

Originally posted by Mindset
Please stay on topic.

SBP vs. Darkseid has nothing to do with this thread.

Every DS thread since FC is about the ALE.

EDIT: Final Crisis sucked.

^ ranting

Originally posted by Mekrob
Of course.

Every DS thread since FC is about the ALE.

EDIT: Final Crisis sucked.

FC most certainly did not suck. It's one of the best events either of the big two has done.

Originally posted by Juntai
FC most certainly did not suck. It's one of the best events either of the big two has done.

Originally posted by Juntai
FC most certainly did not suck. It's one of the best events either of the big two has done.

I, and probably most other people would disagree with you. Some of the tie-ins, like Revelations, Rogues Revenge, and Superman Beyond were great. FC itself? 😘

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Mokkari with a press of a button, released the ALE over the Internet and time and space cracked, WELL before DS manifested:

Mandrakk was separate and apart from the Multiverse, he was the first Monitor. He fed off the stories of the Multiverse. Mandrakk only attacked AFTER DS was disposed with. Reread Final Crisis #7. Even when Grant Morrison offers a disjointed narrative, Superman destroys Darkseid with counter-vibrations and THEN Mandrakk appears AFTER Superman loses his voice.
As you said, the ALE makes you become Darkseid. The Miracle Machine fixed the Multiverse. You are speculating that Orion was boom-tubed. Considering that the Fourth World was destroyed and both Orion and Darkseid were survivors and manifested in the lwer dimension, for you to assume Orion boom-tubed in is pure speculation. A different New God manifested, as stated and reinforced by the Guardians' statements about him. He didn't break the Multiverse by manifesting. That contradicts your interpretations that New Gods, on their own, can distort the entire multiverse merely by manifesting. What goes to explain the obvious disparity between the respective effects of Orion and Darkseid? Mastery of the ALE, which makes all existence, you. Orion didn't have the ALE when he manifested. He died in a garbage heap after being shot by a Radion bullet. Darkseid had the ALE when he manifested. All existence began distorting, turning evil and eventually collapsed upon a singularity, just as Darkseid's own form was. What's so hard to understand here?

Again it is the only thing that makes sense that he would have been Boom-tubed, if he was not he would have been bigger then Earth.. Heck the other evil New Gods never manifested either just DS.. Darkseid shot the Radion bullet backwards through time to kill Orion before Darkseid himself died (while still in the Fourth World). He then was dumped on Earth to die. About The Spectre unmaking creation with the ALE, that is untrue, The Spectre himself did it with his own power, the ALE was used to erase the Life Equation from the Multiverse the gift of free will from God.. The Spectre then erased the ALE from creation and gave back Gods gift of free will. Again you are wrong about the MM fixing the Multiverse and repairing creation with the Life Equation, the Spectre did that and the GL Corps/Supermen of M reestablished the Symmetry of the Orrery (Multiverse) as Nix said. We see them pulling Earth back into its symmetry which Darkseid used to drag it down with him collapsing the Multiverse. 😎

FC was pretty good, thats if people get it.... 🙂

Originally posted by Enyalus
I, and probably most other people would disagree with you. Some of the tie-ins, like Revelations, Rogues Revenge, and Superman Beyond were great. FC itself? 😘