Originally posted by OneDumbG0God's creation is DIFFERENT from free will. I already showed you the scan. Stop acting like it doesn't exist. God created the world and then he bestowed freedom of choice and life. Cain told Spectre to "Unmake creation, rebuild the world in Darkseid's name." For god's sake, he states it plain as day! Not only that, the entire world begins distorting the very next page! What the heck is going on here that you guys could be so impossibly recalcitrant? IT'S ALL ON-PANEL. This is downright trolling that you guys could ignore these scans!
Creation is not some physical block of "earth". Your scans show humanity destroying their world, it doesn't show any "physical" distortion on account of the anti-life.
Above: Is the scan you posted. Every word, every judgement of the ALE is designed to break/disprove free will , and everything the ALE affects on panel is free will. There's no evidence of a physical distortion on account of the ALE - even using your so called evidence.
Again tell us where the universe is distorted or shown to be distorted in all your scans via the ALE?
And I already explained what the concept of free will entails, the concept of free will contains the divine spark of the Old God, his imprint on life (creation), the removal of this concept via anti-life redefines creation in Darkseid's image.
New Earth (after all) is the foundation stone of creation.
True, the fact that The Spectre supposedly in Onedumbs strange little world rebuilt the World/universe himself it would have taken him out of the black hole, which anyone with half a brain can see it did not do. Creation (humans) and Free will was a gift to them so they can truly be alive. Without free will, anti-life (its opposite) takes over and creation is molded to Darkseids image and becomes him.
Originally posted by kevdude
True, the fact that The Spectre supposedly in Onedumbs strange little world rebuilt the World/universe himself it would have taken him out of the black hole, which anyone with half a brain can see it did not do. Creation (humans) and Free will was a gift to them so they can truly be alive. Without free will, anti-life (its opposite) takes over and creation is molded to Darkseids image and becomes him.
Creation isn't just humans but every self aware entity or being. Your pet iguana is subject to the ALE just the same as the Spectre.
Creations = humanity?
No. As is made obvious by these scans:
If ALE only affects free will, can you subsume individuals and shoot Omega Finder Beams out of their eyes like this:
Can you crack time and space like this:
It's obvious that despite how clearly it is set out, you guys are trying to set forth the ridiculous assertion that creation = humanity/free will. It's plainly obvious from the above scans that it is not. Free will is UNEQUIVOCALLY bestowed AFTER creation itself. Humanity is "but small things" compared to creation, as stated ON-PANEL. Those terms are obviously not interchangeable. "Unmaking creation" does not equal enslaving free will. "Rebuilding the world" does not equal enslaving free will. It's obvious from on-panel prose and artwork. I can't explain it anymore than it is obviously presented on-panel. Re-read Final Crisis and Final Crisis: Revelations.
Originally posted by Allanklesmost lizards don't protect their young at all, the only example i can think of of the reptiles is saurians (crocadiles, alligators, caiman, and gavial) taking their young in their mouth's and putting them in the water once they hatch. after that, there are many instances where the mother will eat their own young once their maternal instinct wares off.
Don't Iguana's protect their young in the wild? I mean we see lizards, hell even insects protect their young.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Creations = humanity?No. As is made obvious by these scans:
If ALE only affects free will, can you subsume individuals and shoot Omega Finder Beams out of their eyes like this:
Can you crack time and space like this:
It's obvious that despite how clearly it is set out, you guys are trying to set forth the ridiculous assertion that creation = humanity/free will. It's plainly obvious from the above scans that it is not. Free will is UNEQUIVOCALLY bestowed AFTER creation itself. Humanity is " but small things" compared to creation, as stated ON-PANEL. Those terms are obviously not interchangeable. "Unmaking creation" does equal enslaving free will. "Rebuilding the world" does not equal enslaving free will. It's obvious from on-panel prose and artwork. I can't explain it anymore than it is obviously presented on-panel. Re-read Final Crisis and Final Crisis: Revelations.
Yes DS can shoot omega finder beams if he's replaced free will with Anti-life. Through Anti-life they are an extension of DS.
He's erased the divine spark in those sentient beings (free will) and replaced it with anti-life (which is Darkseid).
How did the ALE crack time and space when all we see is a narration and Mokkari pressing the button that will convert the internet into a god weapon to enslave humanity?
The only thing the ALE did there (on panel) was infect everyone wired to the internet.
We know the singularity that crumpled time and space originated from DS, dragging the multiverse into a hell with no escape. According to the Guardians and the Lanterns the destructive emanations folding space and time were originating from DS. The impact of his fall on earth caused cracks to spread across all sectors of space.
The Mokkari incident never indicated any kind of distortion in space-time because the internet was affected.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
most lizards don't protect their young at all, the only example i can think of of the reptiles is saurians (crocadiles, alligators, caiman, and gavial) taking their young in their mouth's and putting them in the water once they hatch. after that, there are many instances where the mother will eat their own young once their maternal instinct wares off.
What about Monitor lizards and others? They tend to have natural enemies and will likely hang around their nests to protect their eggs from other predators.
Originally posted by Allankles
Creation isn't just humans but every self aware entity or being. Your pet iguana is subject to the ALE just the same as the Spectre.
Yeah agree, humans though are above them as they do not have souls and humanity was created a little lower then the angels. One of course Free will was given to Creation after he made them, the world was here before.... 😄 . On panel proof that the Spectre did not umake the World as you would say and remade it, do you even know what that would have done to the Multiverse?? The whole FC story would have been over and Darkseid would have been everything completely... Again I'll say this in the Entirety of Creation (humans etc,) in the multitude of Universes, we are but small things. Chris is comparing the two. Onedumb you seem reluctant to even read the parts we have showed you....
More info about creation and its history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_man
Originally posted by kevdudeYou came to exactly the opposite conclusions that I came to on everything.
Yeah agree, humans though are above them as they do not have souls and humanity was created a little lower then the angels. One of course Free will was given to Creation after he made them, the world was here before.... 😄 . On panel proof that the Spectre did not umake the World as you would say and remade it, do you even know what that would have done to the Multiverse?? The whole FC story would have been over and Darkseid would have been everything completely... Again I'll say this in the Entirety of Creation (humans etc,) in the multitude of Universes, we are but small things. Chris is comparing the two. Onedumb you seem reluctant to even read the parts we have showed you....
Creation does not equate to mere humanity.
Spectre speaking the ALE would have accelerated DS' dominion over all existence. This is exactly what happened. Everybody that was resisting around the world or hadn't been affected yet, were enslaved, save for those protected by Radiant. This is exactly why Cain states, "We win." You've not pointed to any on-panel proof that contradicts Spectre affecting the world... because that is, in fact, exactly what happens on-panel, Spectre affects the entire world: the rest of humanity is enslaved, the skies start raining lightning down, the seas begin churning, fires of destruction begin blowing up everywhere:
And then Spectre undoes everything he had done. We already agree that Spectre only reverses that which he personally wroughts when he spoke the ALE:
What scene are we presented with? The people who were enslaved being freed, in fact, they fight back against the Justifiers (who were originally enslaved by the ALE beforehand), the skies turning blue, the seas calming down and no more fires of destruction:
It's unequivocal that Cain commanded Spectre to speak the ALE and "Unmake creation. Rebuild the world in Darkseid's name." That's what he does. He doesn't just enslave more people, he starts wrecking the world to conform it with Darkseid's existence. It's all on-panel. But you've seen these pages before. Instead of accepting them, you're trying to equivocate beyond the obvious and clear presentation of the story and artwork by suggesting that creation = humanity. It isn't.
Here, Spectre realizes compares how small humanity is, "In the entirety of creation, in the multitude of universes, we are but small things."
You're trying to read that as meaning, "In humanity, in the multitude of universes, humanity is small in comparison." That doesn't make sense. At all. You cannot possibly read that sentence that way, the construction is illogical. Creation is not purple prose for humanity. Creation is creation.
