Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Nai, if you wanna debate, try and be NICE and don't BASH people, like making nicknames and acting like you are he who knows all (I know I don't know everything, not even close. But it's a NICKNAME, just like how lord Lucien isn't really Lord Lucien).
Apparently, you haven't understood it yet: I don't want to debate with you, because you make biased threads and aren't able to get a grasp on simple concepts. I can't debate with you as a "debate" would require two people participating in it. We could exchange you with a piece of swiss cheese and nobody would spot the difference.
LOGS destroying AT-STs is perfectly canon. If PIS was really the reason why stormtroopers act like idiots, then PIS is going on 90% of the time whenever they fight.
I wonder, where somebody here was talking about AT-STs, which just possess armor designed to stop infantry weapons.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but was the super star destroyer "invincible" not destroyed by a nuclear bomb?
You are wrong. Firstly it was a regular ISD, secondly SWU nuclear weapons are far beyond anything Earth has in terms of destructive power, thirdly: The bomb was detonated inside the ship and - surprise - ISDs are not crafted out of durasteel [with the exception of the section containing the reactor core.
And yet you say that an AT-ST, which gets destroyed by logs, can withstand a nuclear explosion because it's made out of oh so precious durasteel?
Oh my god.
Let me get this into your head. There is a reason, why you have All-Terrain Scout Transports and All-Terrain Armored Transports. Yes. The difference is that an AT-AT has armor that deserves the name. AT-STs aren't even designed for real battle. Those things are, as their name suggest, small scouting vehicles with armor just sufficient to protect them against infantry guns.
Can you spot the difference between infantry weapon (a blaster rifle) and vehicle mounted guns that usually blow buildings apart with apparent ease? Yes? Good. Then there obviously is a slight difference between AT-AT and AT-ST armor, right?
And if nuclear bombs weren't able to destroy other vehicles, then the Juggernaut which was boasted to be able to generate the firepower of a nuclear bomb isn't as impressive as it looks.
Those things are able to generate the heat of a nuclear bombs against their target. If you'd have a look at RotS you could see those things in action (Battle of Kashyyk) notice how they don't one-hit the opposing tanks.
Thanks for proving my point, pal. SW armor is capable of withstanding the heat of a nuclear explosion.
Don't forget: the juggernaut is one of the most powerful land vehicles ever made. They claimed that it could generate the power of a nuclear bomb in order to show off its power. If a nuke isn't even sufficient to destroy a simple vehicle in Star Wars, then why would be Juggernaut be credited with numerous victories if it can't destroy any enemy?
See above. Sustained projection of that much heat against SW armor is what causes the said effect. And I'm sorry: The Juggernaut doesn't belong to the most powerful land vehicles ever made. You should get your hands on some of the Expanded Universe stuff.
And nuking the Imperials:
- heat is a non-issue for the troop in the AT-ATs
- physical stress also, if you want to believe the official figures
- the shockwave of a nuclear bomb knocking AT-ATs over. Hmm. Yes.
But that is already assuming that they would hit the Imperials with a bomb if they would even use one against them. Anti-air weapons, the normal walker weapons and Vader suggest otherwise.
Then again: Why even bother discussing it? The thread-starter should have started with: "Assume a scenario in which the Imperials will lose, no matter what - who wins?"
To clarify on how earth wins:
Earth outnumbers imperials like 100:1
A legion of the empire's BEST men get but kicked by some ewoks and rebels
AT-STs get tripped by ropes and destroyed by logs
AT-ATs can be dealt with via big ropes/sabatoge/fuel shortage/numerous and heavy air/artillery strikes
Vader is only one man, how powerful he may be
Originally posted by Borbarad
Fixed.
Things I added in Earth's favor:
Empire has supply problems (realistic)
Don't know that much about earth
Things you guys added in Empire's favor:
AA guns (did I include them in the list of troops? No, but Lord Lucien insisted on them being in)
Vader being ROTS Vader (some guy said this)
Empire has PLENTY of supplies (added by me being generous 🙂 )
How am I twisting the thread? Please give arguments on how the Empire would win (counter mine).
Originally posted by Borbarad
Apparently, you haven't understood it yet: I [b]don't want to debate with you, because you make biased threads and aren't able to get a grasp on simple concepts. I can't debate with you as a "debate" would require two people participating in it. We could exchange you with a piece of swiss cheese and nobody would spot the difference.I wonder, where somebody here was talking about AT-STs, which just possess armor designed to stop infantry weapons.
You are wrong. Firstly it was a regular ISD, secondly SWU nuclear weapons are far beyond anything Earth has in terms of destructive power, thirdly: The bomb was detonated inside the ship and - surprise - ISDs are not crafted out of durasteel [with the exception of the section containing the reactor core.
Oh my god.
Let me get this into your head. There is a reason, why you have All-Terrain Scout Transports and All-Terrain Armored Transports. Yes. The difference is that an AT-AT has armor that deserves the name. AT-STs aren't even designed for real battle. Those things are, as their name suggest, small scouting vehicles with armor just sufficient to protect them against infantry guns.Can you spot the difference between infantry weapon (a blaster rifle) and vehicle mounted guns that usually blow buildings apart with apparent ease? Yes? Good. Then there obviously is a slight difference between AT-AT and AT-ST armor, right?
Those things are able to generate the heat of a nuclear bombs against their target. If you'd have a look at RotS you could see those things in action (Battle of Kashyyk) notice how they don't one-hit the opposing tanks.
Thanks for proving my point, pal. SW armor is capable of withstanding the heat of a nuclear explosion.
See above. Sustained projection of that much heat against SW armor is what causes the said effect. And I'm sorry: The Juggernaut doesn't belong to the most powerful land vehicles ever made. You should get your hands on some of the Expanded Universe stuff.
And nuking the Imperials:
- heat is a non-issue for the troop in the AT-ATs
- physical stress also, if you want to believe the official figures
- the shockwave of a nuclear bomb knocking AT-ATs over. Hmm. Yes.But that is already assuming that they would hit the Imperials with a bomb if they would even use one against them. Anti-air weapons, the normal walker weapons and Vader suggest otherwise.
Then again: Why even bother discussing it? The thread-starter should have started with: "Assume a scenario in which the Imperials will lose, no matter what - who wins?" [/B]
That's your opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to insult me like a five year old.
Then in that case they'd get owned by tanks bc/they aren't designed for them.
OK you got me there (see how I'm at least trying to be nice?)
So then in that case an Abrams could easily beat an AT-ST. Sure, it's because it isn't designed for that, but the point remains that it'll lose, just like how the point remains that a bomber would lose to an F22
Exactly. So, the AT-ST isn't the heavilest armored vehicle in the world, and thus world get beaten by modern vehicles
And if the AT-ST is made out of durasteel, then no matter what as long as the durasteel isn't a nanometer thick it should be able to withstand a swinging log. Otherwise, small arms fire would tear it to shreds.
(more coming later)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Things I added in Earth's favor:Empire has supply problems (realistic)
Don't know that much about earthThings you guys added in Empire's favor:
AA guns (did I include them in the list of troops? No, but Lord Lucien insisted on them being in)
Vader being ROTS Vader (some guy said this)
Empire has PLENTY of supplies (added by me being generous 🙂 )
How am I twisting the thread? Please give arguments on how the Empire would win (counter mine).
You're just furthering the point that you made a biased thread ...
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I added two things in favor of earth (one which is perfectly realistic) you guys added in two including one that is completely excluded from my list of troops/armor the empire has.
No, I wasn't talking about adding stuff to the thread, I was talking about how you started this thread biased towards the Empire.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
And why Nai do you say that I twisted the thread? Please elaborate and explain how the stuff that you guys added (AA guns? I excluded them from list) is not as bad.
I didn't say you twisted the thread. I stated that you started it of in a fashion which made it impossible for the Imperials to win. This, of course, is already turning a versus thread into a farce. If your first posting already defines who will win, there is no reason to talk about the question who wil emerge victorious in the end, huh?
And the stuff you added in favor to the Empire is laughable in comparison to what you've taken away from them in the first place (intelligence, air support and so on).