What if the Empire invaded modern day earth?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Then why the f/uck did you make the thread?! Their tech. doesn't exist either so all of this is pointless.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you were joking, but the precedent you set makes it clear that you'll manipulate the rules and logic so long as it benefits your argument. This whole thread has become spite and you're a poor debater.

What I'm saying is that Nai using physics to support Star Wars is hypocritical. I'm not saying that we should use physics, I'm saying that we shouldn't because IF we do then the imperials lose the instant the battle starts.

So yeah, I was joking.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
*bows* Whose house? Run's house!

Wait what? Okay you lost me...

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What I'm saying is that Nai using physics to support Star Wars is hypocritical. I'm not saying that we should use physics, I'm saying that we shouldn't because IF we do then the imperials lose the instant the battle starts.

So yeah, I was joking.

We can apply physics so long as it doesn't negate canon.

If you say so then...

Changing topics, you explain how my arguments (above) are wrong (not the ones about physics)?

Originally posted by Eminence
I had two-thirds of a rebuttal for you Nai, but I decided a prolonged argument wasn't worth the effort. You aren't going to acknowledge my argument regarding the [im]plausibility of applying real-world science to a universe as completely nonsensical as the SWU

My dear Faunus. Somehow you seem to have gotten me wrong. It was not my line of thought to apply reallife physics to the SWU in every detail. I just wanted to knock some sense into people that think conventional weapons would be able to touch warmachines constructed in a universe that was lightyears ahead of our modern day Earth technology even 40,000 years in the past.

It's absolutely ridiculous to compare SW tech to Earth tech but if you want to do it, you have to follow the figures that are generated in the sources. One of them, just as example, has a Star Destroyer (durasteel hull) flying into a black hole and the material doesn't get torn into pieces before the physical stress applied against it reaches 30,000,000G. And this is not some wierd Glentract Math. It's written down in the primary source material.

And following such figures - hell...even following logical derivation from the fact that those people seal of miniature suns for fun, or simply watch the destruction caused by some of the SW weapons make it pretty clear that - when it comes down to durability of armor or firepower - the SWU is far ahead of anything modern day technology has produced so far.

your arguments regarding Vader [mind-controlling world leaders, fending off nukes, surviving all at once] are absurd on a level that hurts my brain, and you're apparently already getting worked up.

Urm. I can't recall arguing that Vader would do that all at once which never was my intention. That were just examples for what Vader could possible perform - and I meant just one task at a point and not force-multitasking.

Not to mention that this thread has been ridiculous from the start. Half a million stormtroopers and a few hundred units armor [most of which can be crushed by swinging logs] would get obliterated, especially since the thread starter has stacked the odds as far as intel, air support, and resources go.

While I agree with your idea that this thread is ridiculous, I still don't see any conventional weapon touching an AT-AT. And if they just throw one nuke at that army and Vader mentions to redirect it (maybe into the next city), I don't really see them putting up much more effort to defeat the Empire after that.

Remember the movie "Independence Day" where they launch a nuclear warhead against one of the Aliens capital ship and pretty much lose all hope in the same second that weapon fails? I think modern Earth forces would be in an equal situation, if they should ever attempt to attack an army led by Vader using a nuclear weapon.

@Hewhotalksshit:

Star Destroyers aren't allowed.

You aren't even capable of grasping the reason for mentioning them? GTFO, pal.

If the world is at stake, then DROP ALL THE NUKES YOU WANT AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T DESTROY THE WORLD YOU'RE TRYING TO SAVE

So let me make this clear for you: You have a weapon that will simply vaporize anything close to the point where it impacts, correct? Why - in the blue hell - would anybody toss multiple of that weapons on a single target when he has to assume that the first strike will already destroy it? That doesn't make any sense.

How can an AT-AT hit a misile when it can't aim high enough and can't hit snowspeeders that move slower than modern jets? Same with AT-STs.

Stop boring me with your lack of knowledge. Watch ESB. You can even see snowspeeders getting hit by the AT-ATs, unless you want to tell me that Luke's co-pilot died out of boredom. By the end of the battle all snowspeeders were destroyed. How did that happen if the AT-ATs can't hit them? Piloting errors?

Ya wanna apply physics? Then read my post above.

Quite honestly, I alread had enough of you and this pointless thread. Go to the next supermarket, buy a cup of common sense and return when you have finished this task.

Originally posted by Borbarad
You don't have to try being a dick because you simply don't know what you're talkinga bout. Those figures are extremely generous estimations dirived from the interpretation of things shown on screen and the man is - canonically - absolutely right when it comes to his turbolaser commentaries (the energy output of the Executor he came up with happens to be cannon figure now which can be found in sourcebooks). Yeah...he must be completely wrong, despite the fact that every bit of evidence available supports his claims and despite the fact that LFL apparently ninjas some figures he had come up with. Despite of that, he somehow sucks as source...

Which... doesn't matter because nothing he says is canon, regardless of how much sense it may or may not make.

Thus, canon sources only please. I'm pretty sure that's also a rule on this very forum.

..would biological warfare work against the empire in this case?

Biological warfare would not work - airfilters on a stormtrooper helmet would nullify any biological or chemical attack. A tactical nuclear strike with a 1 kiloton warhead would destroy anything in a mile radius - including Vader because you can fit those bastards in a suitcase. In a nuclear attack like that, Vader's dead. Nuff said on that and America, Britain or Russia wouldn't hesitate to use that weapon. Besides, those weapons are used on the battlefield.

An AT-AT is an easy target from the air. A GBU 2,000 lb laser guided bomb would take out an AT-AT. So would concealed artillery because a smart commander would hide his long range weapons. An attack by a squadron of AH-64s would take out an AT-AT. A tactical nuke would also destroy an AT-AT. You don't need a 100 kiloton warhead.

The Marines & the Army are far superior to stormtroopers. Far better training and far better equiped. They're not slowed down by bulky armor. Weapons are superior - automatic and sniper fire from a Marine is deadlier than a stormtrooper. Stormtroopers would not fight urban warfare - something a stormtrooper is not used to. In urban warfare, the M4 Carbine is a better weapon a blaster. The psych damage to a stormtrooper would be unthinkable - they're not used to watching friends bleed out from a blown off limb, disembowlment from grenade, RPG or bullet or seeing his friend's head explode from a .50 caliber.
What would go through your mind if you saw your friend burning alive?

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Which... doesn't matter because nothing he says is canon, regardless of how much sense it may or may not make.

Thus, canon sources only please. I'm pretty sure that's also a rule on this very forum.

...

"the laser cannons being mounted into the open skeletal frames required bracing and recoil-dissipation casings that would have withstood explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range. Anything less, and a single shot fired in battle would rip a destroyer or battle cruiser in two, a victim of its own lethal strength" (Slave Ship, p.248)

Nuclear weapons? Boring in comparison to turbolasers who operate with energy output an entire order of magnitude higher. And notice that the materials in the SWU are apparently built to manage such firepower.

"Two New Republic Assault Frigates, the Tyrant's Bane and Liberty Star, cruised in toward the Golan station. Though each ship was less than a third as long as the station, they bristled with fifty laser cannons and poured terajoules of coherent light into the Golan." (Isard's Revenge, p.7)

"Moonshadow was coming up and turning to port, its port-side batteries firing Direption's aft shields. Red and blue laser and ion cannon fire pumped terajoules of energy into the shields, but somehow they stayed up" (Isard's Revenge, p. 111)

Notice: This are small scale "laser canons". The use of the term "terajoules" implies energy unleashed that is compareble to the complete energy unleashed by the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima. But here, the energy is focused.

So much for the weapons. Armor?

The dura-armor in the SW universe is forged by "compressing and binding neutronium, lomite, and zersium molecules together through the process of matrix acceleration" (SWE)

Note that even TIE-Fighter armor, which is considerably weaker then most armors in the SW universe, is capable of easily resisting the stress and heat applied against it by entering the atmosphere of a planet in an evasive manouver (neither the hull nor the transpari-steel of the cockpit window suffers - the heat shields of space shuttles are driven to their limits by the same action) - an manouver like that can be found in The Stele Chronicles.

For orther fun-stuff you could check the "Incredible Cross-Sections" (RotS) or "Complete Locations". You can find a lot of rather nice numbers there, too. For example those sources put the energy output of the Executor reactor to a peak of >7,73 × 10E26 W. That is about twice the energy output of our Sun...

Nai, if you wanna debate, try and be NICE and don't BASH people, like making nicknames and acting like you are he who knows all (I know I don't know everything, not even close. But it's a NICKNAME, just like how lord Lucien isn't really Lord Lucien).

LOGS destroying AT-STs is perfectly canon. If PIS was really the reason why stormtroopers act like idiots, then PIS is going on 90% of the time whenever they fight.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but was the super star destroyer "invincible" not destroyed by a nuclear bomb? And yet you say that an AT-ST, which gets destroyed by logs, can withstand a nuclear explosion because it's made out of oh so precious durasteel? And if nuclear bombs weren't able to destroy other vehicles, then the Juggernaut which was boasted to be able to generate the firepower of a nuclear bomb isn't as impressive as it looks.

Don't forget: the juggernaut is one of the most powerful land vehicles ever made. They claimed that it could generate the power of a nuclear bomb in order to show off its power. If a nuke isn't even sufficient to destroy a simple vehicle in Star Wars, then why would be Juggernaut be credited with numerous victories if it can't destroy any enemy?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Nai, if you wanna debate, try and be NICE and don't BASH people, like making nicknames and acting like you are he who knows all (I know I don't know everything, not even close. But it's a NICKNAME, just like how lord Lucien isn't really Lord Lucien).

LOGS destroying AT-STs is perfectly canon. If PIS was really the reason why stormtroopers act like idiots, then PIS is going on 90% of the time whenever they fight.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but was the super star destroyer "invincible" not destroyed by a nuclear bomb? And yet you say that an AT-ST, which gets destroyed by logs, can withstand a nuclear explosion because it's made out of oh so precious durasteel? And if nuclear bombs weren't able to destroy other vehicles, then the Juggernaut which was boasted to be able to generate the firepower of a nuclear bomb isn't as impressive as it looks.

Don't forget: the juggernaut is one of the most powerful land vehicles ever made. They claimed that it could generate the power of a nuclear bomb in order to show off its power. If a nuke isn't even sufficient to destroy a simple vehicle in Star Wars, then why would be Juggernaut be credited with numerous victories if it can't destroy any enemy?

And the Juggernaut is able to deliver the heat of a nuclear warhead against an unshielded target, not produce the effects (shockwave) of a nuke.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I've been looking for a Super Star Destroyer called the Invincible that was destroyed by a nuclear warhead, and I can't find it.

And the Juggernaut is able to deliver the heat of a nuclear warhead against an unshielded target, not produce the effects (shockwave) of a nuke.

Go to wookepedia (or however you spell it) and search nuclear bomb. Somewhere it talks about it.

That makes it even WEAKER, which means it would be even more insane it a nuke couldn't destroy an AT-ST cause that means that a Juggernaut can't, which obviously isn't true.

The SWU says swinging logs > [presumably] durasteel AT-STs. Nukes > swinging logs.

So basically, Darth Vader and a hundred AT-ATs are going to destroy the world.

Originally posted by Eminence
The SWU says swinging logs > [presumably] durasteel AT-STs. Nukes > swinging logs.

So basically, Darth Vader and a hundred AT-ATs are going to destroy the world.

What? Is that sarcasm? Because the second line should be "So basically, the world destroys the AT-STs w/swinging logs.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Go to wookepedia (or however you spell it) and search nuclear bomb. Somewhere it talks about it.

That makes it even WEAKER, which means it would be even more insane it a nuke couldn't destroy an AT-ST cause that means that a Juggernaut can't, which obviously isn't true.

The Juggernaut's nuclear-level heat could only be achieved against an unshielded target. But that doesn't mean it could take down an AT-AT. Plus heat exertion and physical exertion are different things. Nevertheless, the shockwave from a nuke will at the very least knock them over. If Earth decides to nuke the Imperials, then they'll die. No getting around that.

Originally posted by Eminence
The SWU says swinging logs > [presumably] durasteel AT-STs. Nukes > swinging logs.

So basically, Darth Vader and a hundred AT-ATs are going to destroy the world.

Don't.

You'll open a can of worms. There's likely a magical or supernatural property about Endor wood. Because I refuse to believe that ****ing timber is greater than military-grade armor.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't.

You'll open a can of worms. There's likely a magical or supernatural property about Endor wood. Because I refuse to believe that ****ing timber is greater than military-grade armor.

GM Trees, The Emperor was splicing them with strands of Durasteel.

Originally posted by mattatom
GM Trees, The Emperor was splicing them with strands of Durasteel.

Nah.

They were Ents.

Ents get owned by orcs with axes. Orcs with axes get owned by hobbits.

Hobbits > Orcs > Ents > Durasteel.

The clarity of the situation is amazing.