Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Surfer's initial statements are supported by their later confrontations where Thor beats Surfer. And then when he beats Surfer while Adam Warlock is helping him. Thor's life being threatened by a warning blast from a Surfer-level foe is not supported as far as I know.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
None that I recall off the top of my head. But Thor fights Surfer several times in Blood and Thunder.
Originally posted by darthgooberThor wasn't in Warrior's Madness at the time. That's a common misconception about the story. He suffered from a psychosis induced by Odin's tampering with his mind. The term was flung around earlier on in the story as an initial attempt to explain his violent nature, but never in reference to any suggestion that Thor was physically more powerful. Neither Beta Ray Bill, nor Silver Surfer, nor Adam Warlock thought or stated that Thor was 10X more powerful than he was before or anything like that.
Blood and Thunder is hardly a reliable source though because there's the whole Warrior Madness aspect at work. And if we ignore the potential powerup from Warrior Madness, it's simply a case of SMvF. There's literally no way that arc can be viewed as an accurate portrayal of all the characters involved at their normal level's of power.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor wasn't in Warrior's Madness at the time. That's a common misconception about the story. He suffered from a psychosis induced by Odin's tampering with his mind. The term was flung around earlier on in the story as an initial attempt to explain his violent nature, but never in reference to any suggestion that Thor was physically more powerful. Neither Beta Ray Bill, nor Silver Surfer, nor Adam Warlock thought or stated that Thor was 10X more powerful than he was before or anything like that.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Blood and Thunder is hardly a reliable source though because there's the whole Warrior Madness aspect at work. And if we ignore the potential powerup from Warrior Madness, it's simply a case of SMvF. There's literally no way that arc can be viewed as an accurate portrayal of all the characters involved at their normal level's of power.
^ That's your opinion. But considering that Thor has already been portrayed to be more powerful than Surfer in a direct confrontation before, and this particular Thor was absolutely unhinged, the burden's on you to demonstrate that Thor kicking SS' and AW's butts rises to the level of SP kicking FL's butt.
I can't point to anything that would suggest that. Thor has kicked the crap out of other Heralds. And while Surfer does so as well, Thor has done so with embarassing ease sometimes. Beta Ray Bill was also decisively shown to be superior to Stardust. It's all consistent. Only if you throw away everything can you take Thor's exaggerrated exclamation to Surfer's warning blast seriously in any literal sense. And at that point, you're not debating with evidence. You're just indiscriminately dismissing it.
It's been a while since I read the fight but:
BRB pretty much owned Stardust, to the point where Stardust pulled out the mystical black hole attack (that he barely had control over) out of desperation. Stardusts impressive healing factor was his best feat in that battle.
To those debating Surfer one shotting Thor, considering that Surfers been knocked out in one shot by a laser pistol (and we certainly know that no laser pistol is anywhere near equal to Mjolnir OR Stormbreaker) a case could certainly be made on the other end as well...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Surfer being taken out by a single laser shot is SPvFL. Just as Byrne Superman being knocked out by a gas station was. This is especially so, when you don't bother to consider the technology wielded by the Elders of the Universe.
You're also contradictinng yourself, on one end you say it's SPvFL and on the other you justify by saying it's Elder tech.
Either way that you look at it, Pistol <<<<<<<Mjolnir/Stormbreaker. No need to dilute it with silly semantics.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That's your opinion. But considering that Thor has already been portrayed to be more powerful than Surfer in a direct confrontation before, and this particular Thor was absolutely unhinged, the burden's on you to demonstrate that Thor kicking SS' and AW's butts rises to the level of SP kicking FL's butt.I can't point to anything that would suggest that. Thor has kicked the crap out of other Heralds. And while Surfer does so as well, Thor has done so with embarassing ease sometimes. Beta Ray Bill was also decisively shown to be superior to Stardust. It's all consistent. Only if you throw away everything can you take Thor's exaggerrated exclamation to Surfer's warning blast seriously in any literal sense. And at that point, you're not debating with evidence. You're just indiscriminately dismissing it.
Other indications are matchup's against common foes like the Hulk and Wonderman, the fact that Surfer weathered an assault from the Molecule Man that rendered Thor unconscious, and Tyrant recognizing Surfer as being more powerful than BRB. And just so there's no confusion, I don't take Tyrant's statement as proof that Surfer's more powerful than Thor. But BRB's close enough to Thor in power that we know that Thor shouldn't be able to take down both Surfer and Warlock at the same time.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No. I'm saying that when you don't bother to consider the fact that it was Elders of the Universe tech, then it is SPvFL. The fact that it was Elders of the Universe tech could explain why it happened and thus it isn't SPvFL.
No, what I'm saying is that Mjolnir/Stormbreaker > Elder's laser pistol.
The rest you added in.
Originally posted by darthgooberThor's fights with Firelord weren't very tough. And I have a starkly different memory of the Airwalker fight. What I mainly remember is a Mjolnir throw busts through Airwalker's torso when (i) Airwalker is distracted; and (ii) Thor stops holding back because he thinks Airwalker is harming the child.
Firelord's given Thor 2 or 3 tough fights already, and Thor was nearly beaten by the Airwalker until that kid interfered. I don't think I've ever seen him beating a herald with embarrassing ease tbh... with the exception of Surfer during the Blood and Thunder arc of course.
Originally posted by darthgooberSurfer's durability exceeds Thor's. And both Hulk and Wonderman can utilize nothing but physical force against Surfer. However, Thor is not limited to physical force. And we've seen the things that Mjolnir is capable of doing. Surfer has outright acknowledged it's power. Beta Ray Bill might be close to Thor's level, but even he can still get straight-up murdered when Thor becomes unhinged. Which is exactly what we saw in Blood and Thunder also.
Other indications are matchup's against common foes like the Hulk and Wonderman, and Tyrant recognizing Surfer as being more powerful than BRB. And just so there's no confusion, I don't take Tyrant's statement as proof that Surfer's more powerful than Thor. But BRB's close enough to Thor in power that we know that Thor shouldn't be able to take down both Surfer and Warlock at the same time.
It's consistent. And comparing a vicious Thor out for blood defeating two comparably powerful foes who are trying to subdue him as analagous to Spiderman defeating Firelord? I sharply disagree with that.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor's fights with Firelord weren't very tough. And I have a starkly different memory of the Airwalker fight. What I mainly remember is a Mjolnir throw busts through Airwalker's torso when (i) Airwalker is distracted; and (ii) Thor stops holding back because he thinks Airwalker is harming the child.Surfer's durability exceeds Thor's. And both Hulk and Wonderman can utilize nothing but physical force against Surfer. However, Thor is not limited to physical force. And we've seen the things that Mjolnir is capable of doing. Surfer has outright acknowledged it's power. Beta Ray Bill might be close to Thor's level, but even he can still get straight-up murdered when Thor becomes unhinged. Which is exactly what we saw in Blood and Thunder also.
And yes Surfer acknowledged the power of Thor's hammer during the period in which he was written as being depowered, but Bill's hammer is equal to Mjolnir even if Bill isn't equal to Thor him self and I'm pretty sure Bill had the hammer on him when Tyrant labeled Surfer as the most powerful of the group.
For the common opponents, I wasn't just talking about their lack of effectiveness against the Surfer, I was also talking about the way Surfer beats them down with more ease than Thor does.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's consistent. And comparing a vicious Thor out for blood defeating two comparably powerful foes who are trying to subdue him as analagous to Spiderman defeating Firelord? I sharply disagree with that.
Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
Now correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Thor own BRB then beat Surfer immediately afterwards, then beat both BRB AND Surfer, then later the same day beat on Surfer and Warlock and go on to thrash Maxam and Drax w/Power Gem not long after that? You yourself said that Surfer was more durable than Thor, so how can you see Thor withstanding assaults from ALL those people over that short of a period of time as being "consistent" with how he's normally written? Especially when Drax w/Power Gem gave him one Hell of a fight on his own just a few issues earlier?
These attempts get worse as they come. Im "ur little dummy"? Uve just gone from sounding simply sounding like an extremely dull person with little wit to a someone who is seriously sexually confused.Anyways no evidence supports the fact that it was the same type of scouring beam as ive already shown). Continue in ur delusions. Oh and what of all the talk of "circular logic"? How ridiculous
Circular logic, on my behalf? Not much. But if you care to agree to disagree its fine with me. The point is, you asked if he ever resisted matter manipulation and I brought up the Stormbreaker issue with Galactus. If you’d like I can go into full detail?
sigh......Stardust created the Blackhole. he would have known if it was a wormhole(shortcut thru time and space) which he created. Further, He wanted to destroy Asteroth NOT BFR her. The only reason that getting trapped in the event horizon of the blackhole was dangerous is that he would be subsequently pulled into the centre where he would be crushed. The blackhole wasnt intensified, its gravity was twisted. Asteroth twisted its gravity so that it would have no effect on her but would pull in stardust and Bill. Once they were affected by its gravity they were subsequently being pulled to its centre which was the initial danger in the first place.Fortunately your ignoring the obvious doesnt change what happened.
Your not providing much, than what you previously stated. I don’t feel the need to recite, why your views are wrong and contracting. I hope my previous post will be suffice to serve, as a reference.
Seriously if attacks on "sentence structure" (do people still use that?lulz) and my going to law school are the best personal attacks u can come up with then u should just give up.(especially with the structure of ur sentences roll eyes (sarcastic) lmao ) Its definitely not ur thing. All it shows is ur hypocrisy and paints an even more pathetic image of you.P.S- Im not sure if it was some inane attempt at a personal attack or if ur really that retarded but im definitely not American. The name says it all. Naija
Mira, not much improvement since your last post. But hey, maybe its to much to ask after 7 pages.
When ur not dodging, ur bringing u irrelevant information. Doesnt help ur argument
Stardust and bill having no effet on Asteroth is irrelevant here.FACT
Asteroth being damaged by the blackhole is irrelevant here as well.FACT
Yes we do see bill going from holding his own to being pulled into the event horizon. We know this happened because Of Asteroths ability to twist the pull of the blackholes gravity in a way which it wouldnt affect her but would affect BRB and stardust. Overwhelming evidence points to Asteroths gravity manipulation abilities causing it. Your idiocy and to take a quote from ur book "Nerd Rage"(lmao) stops u from
accepting the fact. (And this is the guy attacking others writing skills?). Also, why do u keep trying to garner support from imaginary members? U dodged the question the last time, do u hve the guts to post a poll?
You are aware that gravity, is the main factor to a black holes pulling effect? If the black hole gravity is being twisted, and you see a greater pulling effect, its because the black hole was intensified.
I often refuse to place a poll. Because more often then not, members place a vote with out placing a conscious thought. Its not different then posting “Surfer Wins”.
What? None sequential??
Regardless of what that means, collateral damage in regards to concentrated blasts such as those of T&A is indicative of nothing. T&A themselves said that they werent going to hold back against surfer unlike in their previous encounter. Using the logic of collateral damage, blasts from the likes of Asgardian destroyer,Odin and many other uber powerful beings hve had their attacks cause only small dents in the ground. Galactus has long history of using mild blasts and attacks while fighting those he considers below him. Beta ray bill was like the rest of the korbinites was a "small animal" far below his time. They were simply pests to him and though he could care less whether they lived or died. That is ENTIRELY diferent from him dedicating himself to murdering an opponent. I never described his attacks as "warning shots". They were mild blasts meant to casually eliminate the korbinites.(he was indifferent to whether they died or not as he almost always is in these kind of scenarios). If in ur backwardness u now deem bill who has inferior feats superior to surfer durability wise, good for u. It really has no bearings on anything.
The main point is best feats you brought up, are comparable. The main difference is, you cherry pick single events where Bill held a string of feats back to back.
And here is the biggest shocker, not once have I ever refused to acknowledge a Surfer feat. Hence the reason, why I warrant comparable durability.
Claiming "it is a redundant argument" and continuously ignoring it while failing to refute its validity just shows the weakness of ur position.lol. Stop confusing urself. U pointed out that thor has always given surfer a hard time and tried to use that to argue for bill winning. I then brought up a valid strategy which surfer could use that WOULD work against bill but WOULDNT work against thor because of their unique differences. The specifics i brought up are exactly why it wouldnt against thor.If u agree with the specific differences, then u shud know "original point" was not valid in the first place. Your continuous dodging of the point do to ur inability to counter is getting more amusing.
And also please, Im not ur little anything. If u get feelings of satisfaction( sick ) from imagining that, then.................go get help.
Not true. Because I simply do not back reference prior matches with comparable characters to establish a main point, other then factor.
You brought up matter manipulation working on Bill, because it previously worked on him. Despite the fact, that Odin played a role, Bill was unconscious, stripped of his power, and close to his own death. Aside from the fact, the Odin Power infused in the Stormbreaker also powers Bill itself. Matter manipulation in actual combat, against Bill is too unlikely to happen.
You brought up his speed advantage. I referenced, how despite the speed advantage in every encounter with Thor. Thor has given him trouble, and Bill is the closest thing to Classic Thor. Despite the fact, to this day I still acknowledge Surfer speed. Just not overwhelming enough to hinder Bill.
They are both factors and viable points. But if you simply disagree, your completely entitled to you opinion.
lolwut?
Oh I forgot, you don’t speak English vary well.
If Surfer happens to confront Bill in the upcoming 3 issue mini Dubbed “God Hunter”.
On the Scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest. How pissed off are you going to be, when we find out; Surfers superior speed, and matter manipulation will mean close to nothing against Bill?
11.…ape shit 12?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The 60 second curse works in all areas except the realms of Asgard. Wasn't the realm of the faeries on Earth?Setting the 60 second curse aside for now until we confirm the location of that pit, I recognize that Thor does hold his breath in space and in water, usually effortlessly. So much so, that it's almost forgotten that he does actually need air.
I think their realm was in the Earth dimension. I recall something about it being disguised as ruins or something along those lines and only those with the sight could see them or the realm.
I'm not sure. It might have been in the Asgardian dimension. That would have made sense. I'll double check later.
True, breathing isn't really an issue for Thor.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I pictured Thor sinking to the bottom without being able to get out of the magma, kind of like how Juggernaut can't get out of liquid cement. No footing. But I suppose Thor's not as heavy as Juggernaut and could swim.I can agree that the context of his words refer more to the pit itself. Nevertheless, I'd like to confirm that this scene took place within the realms of Asgard.
Yup, the context does seem to point to the pit. Well, Magma isn't like cement, and like you said, he could swim through it, and seeing as how the heat, nor the lack of air would effect him. Nothing is fatal about it.
Are you sure it was in Asgard?
I have "Thor #347" right in front of me, and on the first page, it shows that their Faerie castle is located in Cotswold of England and is camouflaged to those who lack the Oil of Vision in their eyes.
Those who cross the boundary enter their realm. I'm not sure, but based on that issue I would guess that it's in the Earth dimension and maybe it transfers them to the Asgardian dimension when they pass the threshold etc. but I don't think that's the case.
*shrug*
I could be wrong, as I haven't read the arc in a long time, but it seems that's not in Asgard based on the description in that issue.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Bcause I would rather distinguish this scene from some of those other-exaggerations he's made. And we're probably thinking the same thing, where he hangs off a building and exclaims that a fall from such a height might harm even him. That's just stupidity. Thor's got too many feats of falling from great heights, being violently flung from Asgard to Earth and crashing into mountains for those statements to hold any weight.
👆
That's exactly what I'm getting at. Thor over exaggerates from time to time. The specific reason Odin sent Thor to Earth was because he was prideful, and arrogant etc. It looks like it worked though. Thor states like you said that a fall from a building would harm him, when he has survived falls from orbit without so much a scratch. That's my point. Thor might say something but it isn't necessarily true.
Originally posted by darthgoober
You seem to be missing my point. People use Surfer's statements from his first fight with Thor as proof of Thor's superiority(just as you did in the final part of your post) so I point to later statement made by Thor that place Surfer as his superior. It's not about either encounter being "right", it's about the two characters relative power being up for debate and dependant on showings OTHER than their direct encounters. I don't cling to Thor's statement as being definitive otherwise you see me saying that Surfer pulls 10/10 from BRB with absolute ease rather than 7/10 that are all hardfought.
The statement made by Silver Surfer is applicable to a certain degree, as Thor has bested Silver Surfer, on more than one occasion. More so, Silver Surfer wasn't portrayed as powerful as he was in later years, while Thor, was off fighting the likes of Galactus if I've got the time line down. So I am not surprised by that statement. In later years, that statement is not nearly as valid, if at all.
I personally believe that Thor would defeat Silver Surfer. Not a stomp like he did during "Blood and Thunder" but he would still defeat him in my opinion. A battle between their Classic incarnations would be as good as a fight can get in my opinion. An argument can be made for either but I give the majority to Thor, but it will definitely be a hard earned victory.
I believe Thor is internally the superior one, while externally Silver Surfer takes the advantage. Meaning, while Thor has an edge in terms of power on tap, Silver Surfer, with his ability to amp through outside sources of energy etc. and his versatility evens things out to an extent. Just the way I see it, plus I could be wrong. I give Thor the majority in the end.
The statement Thor made on the other hand, was more recent and it's just ridiculous to base an opinion on this fight on that sentence. Thor is known to over exaggerate, and as evident by their showings and fights, Silver Surfer isn't putting down Thor without an immense struggle, if it at all.
Neither statement should be the sole reason someone decides the way this fight goes, but if you take into account both statements, much more evidence supports what Silver Surfer says, than what Thor stated in my opinion.
Originally posted by id369
Circular logic, on my behalf? Not much. But if you care to agree to disagree its fine with me. The point is, you asked if he ever resisted matter manipulation and I brought up the Stormbreaker issue with Galactus. If you’d like I can go into full detail?
Yup go into full detail and explain where the nature of the blast was described in that comic. oh wait....no such thing was ever happened. More of ur delusions.lmao
Are you telling me, that the Black Hole that Surfer fought isn’t the same kind of black hole Stardust created? Your not providing much, than what you previously stated. I don’t feel the need to recite, why your views are wrong and contracting. I hope my previous post will be suffice to serve, as a reference.
Lulz, u somehow managed to comprehend that from my post? And u have the gall to talk about my english ? Ur the one who suggested that stardust blackhole may have been a wormhole. What i previously stated hasnt been disproved. Uve dodged and avoided evrything u cant disprove though so i cant expect u to stop now. Heck, why dont u go ahead and reference the imaginary support u keep getting from "members". At least it showed some effort.
Mira, not much improvement since your last post. But hey, maybe its to much to ask after 7 pages.
Yup im sure my sentence structure was still to difficult for u "decipher" wasnt it id? 😱 Oh and no more references to me beng "ur little dummy"? Damn i know evryone wasnt born with wit but thats the best u could come u with seriously? facepalmJust sad
You are aware that gravity, is the main factor to a black holes pulling effect? If the black hole gravity is being twisted, and you see a greater pulling effect, its because the black hole was intensified. I often refuse to place a poll. Because more often then not, members place a vote with out placing a conscious thought. Its not different then posting “Surfer Wins”.
The pulling effect of the blackhole was twisted but that twisting wasnt said to be augmentation. Asteroth altered the gravity of the blackhole so that instead of affecting her, it would affect BRB and Stardust. That doesnt translate to augmentation.
Oh and the real members who vote in polls often dont put "conscious thought" into their votes an decisions but these unseen members who u have been drawing support from do?.................lol, im sure u convinced lots of them with that argument.
The main point is best feats you brought up, are comparable. The main difference is, you cherry pick single events where Bill held a string of feats back to back. And here is the biggest shocker, not once have I ever refused to acknowledge a Surfer feat. Hence the reason, why I warrant comparable durability.
right. All the feats ur referencing of bill are from a single story that was his best portrayal and im the one cherry picking. 🙄 Bills back to back string of feats while impressive are still below some of surfers high end feats. We even have a direct durability comparison with the blackhole incident. And i have acknowledged all BRBs feats. I unlike u simply have refused to falsely interpret them. Further i readily accept that their durability is comparable. However by feats surfer is superior. Your labelling them "comparable" and in a weak attempt to avoid determining who is actually superior is an equivocation fallacy.
You brought up matter manipulation working on Bill, because it previously worked on him. Despite the fact, that Odin played a role, Bill was unconscious, stripped of his power, and close to his own death. Aside from the fact, the Odin Power infused in the Stormbreaker also powers Bill itself. Matter manipulation in actual combat, against Bill is too unlikely to happen. You brought up his speed advantage. I referenced, how despite the speed advantage in every encounter with Thor. Thor has given him trouble, and Bill is the closest thing to Classic Thor. Despite the fact, to this day I still acknowledge Surfer speed. Just not overwhelming enough to hinder Bill. They are both factors and viable points. But if you simply disagree, your completely entitled to you opinion.
False. Odin wasnt involved when surfer synthesized the Odin force. At that point surfer had broken away from Odin and didnt even know what surfer was doing. Bill being unconscious has no bearings here. All it tells us is that his resistance is not inherent in his physical structure. Ur atempts to use thor as a pont of reference only further shot don ur own argument as i showed that thor matter manip resistance is due to his asgardian physiology. U dont even have an example of storm breaker protecting bill from matter manip. Further saying matter manip is unlikely to happen against bill is baseless. Matter manip is a valid tactic for surfer to use against bill (try reading the freaking rules).
I brought up the speed advantage an u tried to once again use surfers fights against classic thor to negate. Deliberately ignoring the fact that thors Asgardian physiology gives him enhanced reflexes superior to bills which even if are not shown at times in comics will be in effect per forum rules. You further ignored the fact that in all surfers fights against thor he never made use of any speed in the first place (something which he will be using in a vs match) and therefore their matches are not even valid points of reference.
Instead of analyzing the context and specifics in Thor vs surfer matches that would come into play in a forum match and would differentiate them from a Surfer vs Bill forum match, u prefer to gloss over details and use sweeping generalizations.
Oh I forgot, you don’t speak English vary well. If Surfer happens to confront Bill in the upcoming 3 issue mini Dubbed “God Hunter”. On the Scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest. How pissed off are you going to be, when we find out; Surfers superior speed, and matter manipulation will mean close to nothing against Bill? 11.…ape shit 12?
😂
Lulz, u somehow managed to comprehend that from my post? And u have the gall to talk about my english ? Ur the one who suggested that stardust blackhole may have been a wormhole. What i previously stated hasnt been disproved. Uve dodged and avoided evrything u cant disprove though so i cant expect u to stop now. Heck, why dont u go ahead and reference the imaginary support u keep getting from "members". At least it showed some effort.
So let me get this strait, Surfer fought in wormhole? Or are you simply making up reasons, to bring about distinguishing factors between the two?
One simply sucks you into the event horizon,Keeps you there while your infinitely compressed, and the later simply serves to teleport you out? You are aware, that an event horizon exists within every black hole. Its nature is to pull you in, and can vary well displace you at its other end, once it runs its course?
Yup im sure my sentence structure was still to difficult for u "decipher" wasnt it id? eek! Oh and no more references to me beng "ur little dummy"? Damn i know evryone wasnt born with wit but thats the best u could come u with seriously? Just sad
Maybe “Uve just gone from sounding simply sounding” and ponder if people “still use sentence structures” Little Dummy?
The pulling effect of the blackhole was twisted but that twisting wasnt said to be augmentation. Asteroth altered the gravity of the blackhole so that instead of affecting her, it would affect BRB and Stardust. That doesnt translate to augmentation.Oh and the real members who vote in polls often dont put "conscious thought" into their votes an decisions but these unseen members who u have been drawing support from do?.................lol, im sure u convinced lots of them with that argument.
Riiiggghhttt. Twisting the gravity, in a the black hole will all of a sudden discriminate and choose who will get pulled in. As if such claims where specified, or the nature of the black hole would act in such manner. Yet the surrounding debris is being pulled in with greater ease then before.
Maybe you should go back into thinking, its rotating counter clock wise.
right. All the feats ur referencing of bill are from a single story that was his best portrayal and im the one cherry picking. roll eyes (sarcastic) Bills back to back string of feats while impressive are still below some of surfers high end feats. We even have a direct durability comparison with the blackhole incident. And i have acknowledged all BRBs feats. I unlike u simply have refused to falsely interpret them. Further i readily accept that their durability is comparable. However by feats surfer is superior. Your labelling them "comparable" and in a weak attempt to avoid determining who is actually superior is an equivocation fallacy.
Surfers Black Hole incident is a perfect base of comparison, because we actually see two exact black holes un tampered by a Cosmic Being of a higher order? And Wow such a massive durability feat, its too bad he was laid on his ass by meteor on the first issue.
False. Odin wasnt involved when surfer synthesized the Odin force. At that point surfer had broken away from Odin and didnt even know what surfer was doing. Bill being unconscious has no bearings here. All it tells us is that his resistance is not inherent in his physical structure. Ur atempts to use thor as a pont of reference only further shot don ur own argument as i showed that thor matter manip resistance is due to his asgardian physiology. U dont even have an example of storm breaker protecting bill from matter manip. Further saying matter manip is unlikely to happen against bill is baseless. Matter manip is a valid tactic for surfer to use against bill (try reading the freaking rules).
When actual matter manipulation, works on a Conscious, Healthy, Empowered; “Beta Ray Bill”. Then you will have actual grounds, to make a conclusive point. Otherwise, matter manipulation will have no effect with someone who wields an enchanted item with a portion of the Odin Power surging in his body because of it.
I brought up the speed advantage an u tried to once again use surfers fights against classic thor to negate. Deliberately ignoring the fact that thors Asgardian physiology gives him enhanced reflexes superior to bills which even if are not shown at times in comics will be in effect per forum rules. You further ignored the fact that in all surfers fights against thor he never made use of any speed in the first place (something which he will be using in a vs match) and therefore their matches are not even valid points of reference.
However my response is; its not significant enough to sway the overall outcome of the match; considering other being with inherited Super Speed have not overwhelmed Bill. Characters in the Herald class, and I used Thor vs. Surfer as a back reference to enforce my point.
Does Surfer still have the speed advantage? Absolutely. Yet Bill battle honed experience, is suffice to cope with it considering their history. You understand that it’s a match among characters in its totality and not just their power sets? Come back, when you learn to distinguish them.
Instead of analyzing the context and specifics in Thor vs surfer matches that would come into play in a forum match and would differentiate them from a Surfer vs Bill forum match, u prefer to gloss over details and use sweeping generalizations.
In lame terms, you are your own victim to circular logic.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The statement made by Silver Surfer is applicable to a certain degree, as Thor has bested Silver Surfer, on more than one occasion. More so, Silver Surfer wasn't portrayed as powerful as he was in later years, while Thor, was off fighting the likes of Galactus if I've got the time line down. So I am not surprised by that statement. In later years, that statement is not nearly as valid, if at all.
But what are these occasions of Thor winning that you're referring to? Surfer won that first fight, he only lost during Blood and Thunder.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I personally believe that Thor would defeat Silver Surfer. Not a stomp like he did during "Blood and Thunder" but he would still defeat him in my opinion. A battle between their Classic incarnations would be as good as a fight can get in my opinion. An argument can be made for either but I give the majority to Thor, but it will definitely be a hard earned victory.I believe Thor is internally the superior one, while externally Silver Surfer takes the advantage. Meaning, while Thor has an edge in terms of power on tap, Silver Surfer, with his ability to amp through outside sources of energy etc. and his versatility evens things out to an extent. Just the way I see it, plus I could be wrong. I give Thor the majority in the end.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The statement Thor made on the other hand, was more recent and it's just ridiculous to base an opinion on this fight on that sentence. Thor is known to over exaggerate, and as evident by their showings and fights, Silver Surfer isn't putting down Thor without an immense struggle, if it at all.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Neither statement should be the sole reason someone decides the way this fight goes, but if you take into account both statements, much more evidence supports what Silver Surfer says, than what Thor stated in my opinion.
