Im gna sum up the main points u lot have bin saying.
1. Mace is stronger because hes ripped up battle droids or whatever..
well ROTS Anakin was at the prime of his power. That was only for a short time. Didnt have time to display feat after feat.
But in clone wars he did beat the crap out of an IG88 bounty hunter droid.. which im sure is far tougher than your average battle droid.
Also i dnt ever remember Yoda or Sidious ripping up battle droids, so does that mean Mace is stronger than them as well??
2. Your saying my main evidence is Dooku's description of Anakin..
well that is the main evidence, because thats the main account we have of ROTS Anakin's power. That and NG's statements. what other evidence is there? None.
3. Someones talking to me about potential power of Anakin..
But im talking about his ACTUAL strength and power as applied to swordplay as of ROTS. His mastery and knowldge of using the Force in general though is limited. But when it comes to his strength and speed and mobility, he has all that.
4. Mace's mastery of Vapaad is better becuase he created it..
well not necessarily. The fact that he created it in his lifetime shows its not as developed as the other forms, which have been developed over centuries, or even thousands of years.
Also everyone has a different learning rate. Anakin was as technically skilled as Obi-wan at least even though Obiwans 15 years older and more experienced. The chosen one clearly learns and develops his skills at an alarming rate. Theres many referneces to it about Skywalkers impressive skills (presumably for his young age)
And As fine a user as Dooku had ever seen implies the highest standard of mastery.
5. Anakin went from a level 8 to a 9 in thats movie using the dark side doesnt make sense because Mace and Yoda are 9's..
well actually if you read the making of ROTS the book, NG says you have to reach level 8 at the right age, because if you reach it as young as Anakin its just too temptimg to use it to jump you up.
So Yoda and Mace reached levels 8 and 9 respectively through the passage of time and honing their skills the proper way. Not through the dark side. (although Vapaad does actually give Mace the advantage of the darkside).
But by the way even when Anakin was an 8, he must have been a very high level 8(like Dooku) as weve already seen him match Dooku in sabers during the clone wars.
6. Mace has shatterpoint. That means he wins..
Shatterpoint is not a guaranteed victory. Iv already expalined why.
7. Mace beat Sidious that means Dooku could not contend with Mace..
Well No.. because the Loop comes into play, making his fight with Sidious toltoally different to how the Loop would affect his fight with Dooku. Thats where A>B>C doesnt work.
8. Mace is much faster than Anakin because he culdnt see him when he was fighting, and because he saw his blade everywhere..
Well the novel also mentions that he culdnt see them properly but he could "Feel them in the Force".. so thats all that matters because as we know "your eyes can deceivve you. dnt trust them"(obi1 ANH)
Also Anakin also displayed his Blade looking like its everywhere against Dooku.
9. Anakin wnt keep getting stronger because of the Loop??
No Anakin will keep getting stronger.. But Mace should be able to match that strength through the loop.
So yeah this would probably nullify Anakin's main advantage, so Mace probably would win through use of the Loop.. The same way he beat Sidious.
But not because hes out of their league in swordsmanship. They are all Level 9's. But as we know Sidious and Anakin and any Darksider are at a disadvantage from the start when fighting Mace in a swordfight because of the "Superconducting Loop".
But end of the day even though Mace beats Sidious through use of the Loop, we still know Sidious is at least as good a swordsman(probably a little better) as him, and more powerful than mace.
The same way even though Mace would probably beat Anakin in a swordfight through use of the "Loop"(though I still think it would be a good fight first) I still say Anakin is in the same league as a Swordsman(both level 9's) and probably about as Powerful as Mace as well(by ROTS which is Anakin at his most powerful).
10. Mace is much stronger more powerful than Dooku and completley destroys him??
urmm.. yes Mace is Uber. He would Kill both Skywalker and Dooku together with his hands tied behind his back balancing his lightsaber on his nose. Tssk... I can see this is pointless.
Stop being inept, Darth Power. I haven't seen such rampant Dooku apologia dipped in willful ignorance and sarcasm since Nai was a permanent fixture in these parts. Nick Gillard is not a canon source; deal with it and move on.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You aren't very good at this.
He's about as proficient in debating as you are in expressing condescension with any noteworthy presence, you whore.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
But he wasn't a master. Whatever, you clearly know what I mean (and everyone else worth their IQ did/does too) so there's no point talking about it anymore.
Oh, please.
You're just upset that he defeated you by exploiting a blatant and glaring technicality in your post, you whore.
lolwut?
lyke, that didnt make ne cents at all u d bag.
(How would my skill at conveying condescension modify my presence at all? Learn what those big words mean before you try them out big guy. Maybe you should stick to your hillbilly cousin orgies and stay retired. KMC is doing fine without you (or it was before you came back) and you clearly have slipped back into redneckery.)
Posted again, so DP [lawlz] can address it and concede for all to see:
Originally posted by Eminence
In the interest of not going back and forth again, let's tackle one stupid premise at a time.First up, the idea of "Anakin = Level 9, ergo Anakin = Mace." There are two major problems with your use of this "fact." One, Nick Gillard isn't necessarily a reputable canon source. At all. His version of Jedi combat is not corroborated by a single published canon source, or even noncanon or verbal sources.
Two, you've been intentionally ignoring one very significant piece of Gillard's statement:
"Obi-Wan is at a [b]level 8, which is where Anakin starts.
But Anakin jumps to level 9 -- and the difference between 8 and 9 is enormous. A Jedi can get to level 9, but that's the difference between light and dark."Which also doesn't really make sense given that Mace and Yoda are apparently level 9, but what's relevant here is that - as I pointed out - Gillard made it clear that the dark side is what made Anakin "a level 9," and that [at the beginning of RotS] he's a level 8, just like Obi-Wan. Gillard also points out that there's an "enormous" gap between 8 and 9, meaning that dark side Anakin [9] is an [enormously] greater swordsman than Jedi Anakin [8]. And since Mace Windu is a level 9, he too is an [enormously] greater swordsman than Jedi Anakin. Of course, while dark side Anakin is on an equal tier as him in swordsmanship, Mace still has shatterpoint and Vaapad.
'Nuff said.
So either acknowledge that Nick Gillard isn't necessarily a canon source and that you bringing him up in every post is stupid and futile, or acknowledge that what he actually said isn't what you said he said and is really what I said he said, meaning that you bringing him up in every post is stupid, futile, and completely counterproductive to the point you're trying to make.
Either way, I win. [/B]
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
lolwut?
Faunus called and he wants his catchphrase back. Grammar Nazi my ass; Hitler had originality.
lyke, that didnt make ne cents at all u d bag.
That's because you're unimaginably incompetent.
(How would my skill at conveying condescension modify my presence at all? Learn what those big words mean before you try them out big guy. Maybe you should stick to your hillbilly cousin orgies and stay retired. KMC is doing fine without you (or it was before you came back) and you clearly have slipped back into redneckery.)
Who said anything about modification, you moron? You fail to express condescension with any sort of presence; you lack the menace or superiority to convey the proper amount of disdain, largely attributed to your notable stupidity.
It's no wonder that you can't win an argument with Darth Power.
Originally posted by Gideon
Faunus called and he wants his catchphrase back. Grammar Nazi my ass; Hitler had originality.
And faunus can't have it.
Originally posted by Gideon
That's because you're unimaginably incompetent.
Originally posted by Gideon
Who said anything about modification, you moron? You fail to express condescension with any sort of presence; you lack the menace or superiority to convey the proper amount of disdain, largely attributed to your notable stupidity.
He's about as proficient in debating as you are in expressing condescension with any noteworthy presence, you whore.
Originally posted by Gideon
It's no wonder that you can't win an argument with Darth Power.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You are the one that wanted me to stop that. Make up your mind woman!And faunus can't have it.
Because I assumed that you would demonstrate some talent in debate; if this is the best you can offer, I'm clearly wrong.
Really? That's the best you could come up with? 'Incompetent'?
The best you can come up with is a rhetorical question in lieu of a comeback?
Poor country mouse- can't even read:I know this is a bit different from the 'my first chapter books' you are used to but try to keep up. You compared DP's debating skill to my ability [b]to express condescension with [...] presence
. You tied ability to condescend directly to presence on the forum. Which is silly.[/B]
Originally posted by someone smarter than you
You fail to express condescension with any sort of presence; you lack the menace or superiority to convey the proper amount of disdain, largely attributed to your notable stupidity.
Because of your reputation as a moron, your condescension is worthless. It lacks presence, menace, and the ability to convey elitist disdain. For someone who claims to be a veritable demi-god in English, you are quite the failure.
Wut? When did that (fail to) happen?
This whole thread. He seems to be better than you on all fronts; the only reason you've managed to save face is because Faunus came into save your ass.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Im gna sum up the main points u lot have bin saying.1. Mace is stronger because hes ripped up battle droids or whatever..
well ROTS Anakin was at the prime of his power. That was only for a short time. Didnt have time to display feat after feat.
But in clone wars he did beat the crap out of an IG88 bounty hunter droid.. which im sure is far tougher than your average battle droid.
Also i dnt ever remember Yoda or Sidious ripping up battle droids, so does that mean Mace is stronger than them as well??
2. Your saying my main evidence is Dooku's description of Anakin..
well that is the main evidence, because thats the main account we have of ROTS Anakin's power. That and NG's statements. what other evidence is there? None.
3. Someones talking to me about potential power of Anakin..
But im talking about his ACTUAL strength and power as applied to swordplay as of ROTS. His mastery and knowldge of using the Force in general though is limited. But when it comes to his strength and speed and mobility, he has all that.
4. Mace's mastery of Vapaad is better becuase he created it..
well not necessarily. The fact that he created it in his lifetime shows its not as developed as the other forms, which have been developed over centuries, or even thousands of years.
Also everyone has a different learning rate. Anakin was as technically skilled as Obi-wan at least even though Obiwans 15 years older and more experienced. The chosen one clearly learns and develops his skills at an alarming rate. Theres many referneces to it about Skywalkers impressive skills (presumably for his young age)
And As fine a user as Dooku had ever seen implies the highest standard of mastery.5. Anakin went from a level 8 to a 9 in thats movie using the dark side doesnt make sense because Mace and Yoda are 9's..
well actually if you read the making of ROTS the book, NG says you have to reach level 8 at the right age, because if you reach it as young as Anakin its just too temptimg to use it to jump you up.
So Yoda and Mace reached levels 8 and 9 respectively through the passage of time and honing their skills the proper way. Not through the dark side. (although Vapaad does actually give Mace the advantage of the darkside).
But by the way even when Anakin was an 8, he must have been a very high level 8(like Dooku) as weve already seen him match Dooku in sabers during the clone wars.6. Mace has shatterpoint. That means he wins..
Shatterpoint is not a guaranteed victory. Iv already expalined why.
7. Mace beat Sidious that means Dooku could not contend with Mace..
Well No.. because the Loop comes into play, making his fight with Sidious toltoally different to how the Loop would affect his fight with Dooku. Thats where A>B>C doesnt work.
8. Mace is much faster than Anakin because he culdnt see him when he was fighting, and because he saw his blade everywhere..
Well the novel also mentions that he culdnt see them properly but he could "Feel them in the Force".. so thats all that matters because as we know "your eyes can deceivve you. dnt trust them"(obi1 ANH)
Also Anakin also displayed his Blade looking like its everywhere against Dooku.9. Anakin wnt keep getting stronger because of the Loop??
No Anakin will keep getting stronger.. But Mace should be able to match that strength through the loop.
So yeah this would probably nullify Anakin's main advantage, so Mace probably would win through use of the Loop.. The same way he beat Sidious.
But not because hes out of their league in swordsmanship. They are all Level 9's. But as we know Sidious and Anakin and any Darksider are at a disadvantage from the start when fighting Mace in a swordfight because of the "Superconducting Loop".
But end of the day even though Mace beats Sidious through use of the Loop, we still know Sidious is at least as good a swordsman(probably a little better) as him, and more powerful than mace.
The same way even though Mace would probably beat Anakin in a swordfight through use of the "Loop"(though I still think it would be a good fight first) I still say Anakin is in the same league as a Swordsman(both level 9's) and probably about as Powerful as Mace as well(by ROTS which is Anakin at his most powerful).10. Mace is much stronger more powerful than Dooku and completley destroys him??
urmm.. yes Mace is Uber. He would Kill both Skywalker and Dooku together with his hands tied behind his back balancing his lightsaber on his nose. Tssk... I can see this is pointless.
Rofl. All of your arguments are completeley wrong.
1. Yes physically, Mace is stronger than Yoda and Sidious, and he displayed multiple force power feats, such as push an AT-TE off a cliff with ease. The term: strength, is obviously something you are a stranger to. Let me refer you to Red Nemisis for a detailed definition.
2. So you have just proved to me you have virtually no canon. Good job.
3. Read number one.
4. This is the form that beat Sidious, which is more than I can say for Djem So. Also he definitely knows HIS OWN FORM better than Anakin. Where do you come up with this bullshit?
5. Let me make this clear: He did not match sabers with Dooku. He got his ass handed to him and that would have been the end of him had not Yoda interfered. So that was a flat out lie coming from you.
6. Your "explanation of Shatterpoint is completely moronic. But I shouldn't be surprised as it's coming from someone who has ludicrous ideas regarding Vapaad and how "Djem So is made for deuling so it MUSTTT b bettr!!!1"
7. He wouldn't need the god damned loop you imbecilic excuse for a debater. Read argument number 1.
8. I have explained this four, count, 4 times already. MACE IS NOT DOOKU. DOOKU IS NOWHERE NEAR MACE IN TERMS OF SPEED OR POWER. Vapaad is much faster than anything Skywalker has ever dealt with, yet you continue to argue this. What do you hope to get from this?
And Anakin saw Vapaad first hand and knew he could not keep up with it. Irrefutable canon right here and you simply refuse to acknowledge it. Why? (Anderson don't barge in here with your "Because I choose to" BS)
9. No and No and NOOO. You seem to have a never-ending supply of bullshit streaming out of your brain. Every 4 words I must consult the dictionary to see if they exist and what they mean.
Mace would gut Anakin right there at the beginning, and if Anakin gets stronger, Mace does too, but that is on top of his already superior strength as pointed out by number 1.
And Sidious would have fared better in their duel by a significantly large margin if Mace did not have the loop. You are stating what everyone who has common sense knows. Why?
He is OBVIOUSLY out of their league in swordsmanship, NG aside. You can't ride on him forever. As to the comment regarding Anakin's power, cocaine is bad.
Now this thread is pointless, because you are the only one defending Anakin, and you have clearly stated that Mace would win. Done.
I hope it doesn't turn into the disaster that became of the "Morality Contest" thread.
Originally posted by Gideon
Because I assumed that you would demonstrate some talent in debate; if this is the best you can offer, I'm clearly wrong.
The best you can come up with is a rhetorical question in lieu of a comeback?Because of your reputation as a moron, your condescension is worthless. It lacks presence, menace, and the ability to convey elitist disdain. For someone who claims to be a veritable demi-god in English, you are quite the failure.
(And even I can realize that simply calling someone incompetent is not the most offensive thing you could have said.)
This whole thread. He seems to be better than you on all fronts; the only reason you've managed to save face is because Faunus came into save your ass.
But whatever. Cookies await!
Originally posted by Red NemesisYou sound so apologetic. Just say "**** you" andk
Here's the thing. I've never claimed to be good at insults. Ever. I just can't do it. For all that DS and Nebaris (once) [and maybe Nai?] claim that I use insults a lot (or get flamed a lot?) I simply don't do it. I can't. More to the point, I don't want to change that.
(And even I can realize that simply calling someone incompetent is not the most offensive thing you could have said.)
Really? The whole thread? I didn't respond to him until... page 4. At that point I made one post disagreeing with DP. Then there was a long string of posts between then and when I could post again by which time (grammar there?) all his points had been addressed by Nai or Faunus. It would have been a waste of time to dredge up old points, so I made a reasonably coherent (although now it seems a bit rough) argument regarding Mace and Anakin's respective skill level and power which no one has responded to.
But whatever. Cookies await! [/B]