Hercules vs. Wolverine/Deadpool

Started by The Scribe15 pages
The Scribe Junior Member
Originally posted by steverules_2
Didn't bone claw wolvie beat hercules in some...competition thing that the brood queen was behind? Dunno if that counts as anything but yeah...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
StiltmanFTW: Former battle is a non-fight. Latter battle is an off-panel fight that involves mortal Hercules when he was depowered following a storyline set shortly after Bloodties. Don't remember when exactly. But it was well before Contest of Champions II. Hercules didn't regain his immortality and full powers back until the Ares mini in 2006 IIRC. I don't recall Hercules hiding from Wolverine.
leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by jinzin
🤨

if you're going to use The Reigning as your pillar of evidence, it should pretty much be without question that Wolverine can hit Thor in combat.

lends credence to what i said at the end. thor likely didn't peceive logan as a threat. he was right. a scrape? then he inceinerated the guy. and i never said logan couldn't hit him if thor just stood there . . .

that scan shows that thor battled thialfi at superspeeds (unless you think thialfi slowed down like you seem to think everyone with superspeed slows down when they face thor . . . 🙄 ) in fact, thor was so weak thialfi eventually beats him. if he can effortlessly react to an attack from the god of speed i feel safe in saying he could counter logan. unless you wanna say logan is faster than thialfi of course.

Hela, known for her superhuman combat speed and h2h prowess right?

rather known for her near sky-father level powers in hel, and her overall knowledge of power.

He shouldn't most of the time. But when he gets into fights with people like Hulk, Thing, the Bloodbrothers, Jughernaught and any number of various parties who he's come across one would expect him to ride on a speed advantage when sheer strength alone isn't going to be one that's working...

why? it's not in his character. it never has been. he has shown more than enough times that he has superspeed available to him. you just keep claiming otherwise for whatever reason.

Since Thor doesn't do that and since his *ahem* "speed" feats are so few and far between... and relatively too unimpressive or ambiguous to even really BE speed feats in the first placce.... to say that he's at a level of h2h speed that Wolverine can even compete with when every peice of evidence that matters in the debate says otherwise.... wells it's just batshit crazy to tell you the truth.

😂

where did i say he was too fast for logan to compete with? i said thor could easily match logan's speed and react to anything logan threw at him and it's not impossible he could use a blitz of his own. and after what's been shown, i still feel exactly the same way.

been fun. 😉

Kinkin Restricted

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
This should be here...

And there's an instance when Herc hides behind Cap's shield from Logan's claws... someone should post that scan.

Yeah but I doubt the rules of the forum would allow that to happen don't you?

Besides I'm pretty sure Wolverine can cut Herc so knowing that's the best option I'm sure he would try. I don't see anything from Hercules that would show he can catch Wolverine or Deadpool. Believe I don't like it, I don't even like Wolverine I prefer Hercules,

Mindset Senior Member

Originally posted by jinzin
Hammer feat then. Well done.
Not relly.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
Oy, how I do hate to sully my hands with your carcass in these threads Onedumb, but I suppose it's time to do this dance again isn't it? And I'm going to be stuck here endlessly proving you wrong up and down a thread AGAIN aren't I?

You see the problem my friend is that you took up a position to prove that Thor was not only as fast as Wolverine in combat, but faster, AND faster to a degree that made any fight between the two a non contest.

Too bad. I take pleasure in busting your ridiculous myths. You certainly have an "interesting" take on how our Wolverine: Origins starvation myth debate resolved itself. 😂

False. Poor use of straw-man right off the bat. I only suggested that Thor has demonstrated enough combat speed and reflex speed feats that he wouldn't have issues with Wolverine's speed, whereas you suggested Wolverine would be dancing around him. Strike one.

Originally posted by jinzin
This feat is completely inconsequential in proving thing#1 about Thor's combat speed. As you said and as you can see Thor is flying around by his hammer. His ability to get inside the room from outside is relative to his hammer, not his combat speed. Even blocking the dart shows that the hammer has Thor's arm completely outstretched in front of him and he's STILL FLYING... A nice feat for the speed of Mjolnir? MAYBE.
You either don't deal with flying characters too often or you're trolling. Just because he is flying, doesn't make this a travelling speed feat. Here, Thor needed to precisely time the position Mjolnir would be in to intercept the bullet. Had he just gone at 3x light speed, he'd have blown through the entire building. It's a similar, if lower in scale, speed feat such as this:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanAC835.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
As it is ALSO alluded that the falling beaker was used to get Thor's attention in the first place, it's probable that he was already aware of the situation as Cobra was making his threats... And, even if that wasn't the case and the breaking glass didn't get Thor's attention, even though the writing would suggest otherwise..... Does this say anything about Thor's ability to move fast or fight faster than Wolverine? No. He AT BEST blocked one dart assuming Mjolnir had nothing to do with it, it's barely impressive and it certainly doesn't put him above the likes of Wolverine.

But if dart blocking is what makes Thor so impressive in your eyes in combat, then please serve yourself some of this.
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7895/rocketpowereddartblockhm5.jpg

Once again, straw-man. I already pointed out myself that Thor's attention was caught by Jane. The speed comes into play where Thor wasn't even in the room by the time the dart had already been fired by Cobra, who was only a few feet away from Jane.

Wolverine already being in position next to the cyborg by the time the darts are fired to cut them out of the air is far more impressive than Thor, who wasn't even in the room when the darts were already fired, yet managed to intercept Cobra's dart?

hysterical

Originally posted by jinzin
Like Srank told you hitting the ground with his hammer in the span of 1.2 seconds isn't even remotely impressive for a human let alone a comic book character.

But hey, if one strike in 1.2 seconds does that for you I can't imagine how impressive Wolverine doing this in 2 is..... (And lets be honest here.... 2 Seconds is being way too generous given the fact that the cigars never hit the floor.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...osecondstt9.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/46...seconds3cd9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...seconds2sy3.jpg

Straw-man. Thor had to fly out of the sky, land, plan his trajectory, unleash his shockwave blow, and have enough time for the shockwave to travel across the entire city within 1.2 seconds. Thor didn't use the entire 1.2 seconds to hit the ground with his hammer. I already called out srankmissingnin for trolling on this exact point, way to ignore that in the hopes that nobody would notice.

2 seconds to throw a few pre-planned punches at dummies who aren't even moving. I also like how you tried to suggest that despite Wolverine correcting Kitty's 5 second measurement with his own measurement of 2 seconds, Wolverine must have been wrong and did it faster than he stated on-panel. That's a good one.

dur

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
Zoiks! I bet Wolverine can't match something like that!
Oh wait... Wolverine pulling a sword out of the ground after Scott's blasted three shots at him turning around and managing to deflect every blast with one efficient strike.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1889/captang29.jpg

facepalm I know it's your day-job to blow Wolverine's feats out of proportion... but this is just ridiculous. You really are suggesting that Cyclops shot light speed beams at Wolverine, and subsequently, before they could even reach him... Wolverine pulled a sword out and swiped them away? Are you trying to insult everyone's intelligence with these fantastical wet-dreams? Good lord. You obviously can't find microsecond or nanosecond speed feats for Wolverine, but going to these lengths to avoid admitting that Thor's speed is superior is just depressing.
Originally posted by jinzin
Look, while telepathic communication may be instantaneous there's really no proof as to how fast a telepathic bolt can be once it's been given some form of physical manifestation and shot AT someone, it sure as hell isn't instantaneous, and if you've missed out on that fact not reading hundreds of X-books then you certainly didn't manage to read that scan very well either as it flat out says that the bolt was moving toward Thor, as in NOT instantaneous. Thor's ability to react to it after it's been fired should prove that.
Except that the scan says it instantly races at Thor. 😐

I'd laugh if your illiteracy didn't make me pity you. I mean... the word "instantly" is literally right in front of the word "races." And you're assuming your conclusion: "This feat doesn't prove he's that fast, because he isn't fast enough to accomplish such a feat. Therefore, he isn't that fast." Another logical fallacy.

Originally posted by jinzin
You think otherwise, then lay some proof out on the table because until then, as Srank replied. Wolverine's blocked and dodged lazers too.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/axm-017.jpg

Oh yes, I know, you don't like Wolverine blocking or dodging lazers because it sucks to consider for your argument but it's not as if this would be the only impressive feat he has against these things. How about helping Rogue dodge a lazer after it had already begun to fire?
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/954/roguelasertrip.jpg

Oh right I'm sure these won't matter since that's what your agenda calls for. If telepathy is so impressive in your eyes; are you NOT aware of all the telepaths who have failed fighting Logan strictly because he can fight at the speed of thought? Cause y'know... they HAVE.

Don't bother wasting anybody's time with aim blocking lasers. Thor aim blocks lasers all the time. Reading a person or reading how they're telegraphing their shot/aim and positioning yourself to evade/defend BEFORE the laser shot's been fired is not evidence of FTL reflexes. This simple premise has been repeated already in this thread. Not being in position to evade/defend yourself AFTER the laser's been fired and then evading/defending yourself is evidence of FTL reflexes. Unless you can prove that a a shot was fired BEFORE a character was in a position to evade/defend don't waste your time or mine.

The robot was activated before Wolverine helped Rogue dodge. The laser itself wasn't activated before Wolverine helped Rogue dodge. Slight difference, slick. Don't misrepresent your own scans when I can fugging see them.

Fighting on instinct or fighting before someone can process the thoughts they pick up from another person's mind and formulating their own battle plans is nothing like blocking a telepathic blast after its already been fired.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah already saw your ridiculous ploy here; to use the lowest rocket speed possible while stating one of the fastest trajectories for artillery shells well done..... Of course we'd also have to ignore things like the fact that every tactical missile in the US even in the 1960's operated at speeds from 600 to 3 thousand MPH. Or the fact that the fastest plane in the world is the rocket plane... Or the fact that ROCKETS are used to achieve escape velocity.... 25,000 MPH... Which I'm sure you're perfectly able to do even though regular people can watch rockets achieving escape velocity too... They must not be faster than tank shells!

Now, you know very well it wasn't stated how fast the rocket was going but if you're going to ignore the fact that the artillery shell ALSO did not have a stated speed and just assume Thor's feat is vastly more impressive, then you're just subjecting us to your low-balling hypocritical nature all over again.

And once more, nothing makes dealing with most artillery shells more impressive than dealing with most bullets or lazer fire. I fail to see at what point it becomes proof that Thor is suddenly loads faster than Wolverine which was again.. your position.

Modern tactical missiles can attain the higher speeds after the initial booster stage. And we are not dealing with the fastest rocket plane evre made by man. Nor are we dealing with a NASA space shuttle.

Give yourself the benefit of the doubt? Not a chance. Because no, it wasn't stated how fast it was going. Nor was it described how fast it was by narration. But what do we know that would help measure how fast it was going? All we know is that Wolverine and Mojo are yelling at each other while he's riding around on it, so it can't be going faster than they or his minions can perceive. Of course, artillery shells and tank shells do move faster than the eye can perceive. Which is plain obvious. To provide more context, post scans of the page before and after this rocket-riding scene.

Except tank and artillery shells are MUCH faster than bullets. And your use of aim blocking lasers is completely incorrect. And no, my position isn't Thor is suddenly loads faster than Wolverine. My position always was Wolverine's speed wouldn't give him insurmountable problems since Thor has demonstrated a greater capacity for combat speed and reflex speed. I know these scans prove to you, a person who didn't know this until now, and thus it was a sudden discovery for you that Thor's loads faster than Wolverine. But don't project your own surprise onto me and misrepresent my statements.

jinzin Senior Member
Originally posted by leonidas
lends credence to what i said at the end. thor likely didn't peceive logan as a threat.

Which was never stated nor implied on Thor's part and infact contradicted by the fact that Logan being a threat was exactly what made him so angry.

Originally posted by leonidas
he was right. a scrape? then he inceinerated the guy. and i never said logan couldn't hit him if thor just stood there . . .

A scrape? :lol;
Just when I'm thinking you couldn't possibly make any less a convincing argument, there you go again.

Wolverine's claws went right through him with no resistance at all, and he lets out an RGH! in big bold black letters, then punches Wolverine with his opposite hand while the other arm is helpless to stop Strange from putting a charm around his neck (again. the speed would be where there?), THEN we see Thor holding the same arm that was hit, where he yelled and that was helpless to defend against Strange... the same arm that is NOWHERE to be seen when Thor tries to wrench the charm from his neck, and the same one that conveniently goes missing by the time he fights Hulk and Thing..... A scratch huh?

Yeah NONE of Thor's fights in that arc displayed superspeed that you're talkin about, including that with hours of fighting Hulk and Thing, and oh hey there's CAP again! 😱

Originally posted by leonidas
that scan shows that thor battled thialfi at superspeeds (unless you think thialfi slowed down like you seem to think everyone with superspeed slows down when they face thor . . . 🙄 ) in fact, thor was so weak thialfi eventually beats him. if he can effortlessly react to an attack from the god of speed i feel safe in saying he could counter logan. unless you wanna say logan is faster than thialfi of course.

Yeah? no it doesn't.... When Thialfi was using superspeeds in that arc he was either streaking a blue line behind him or his whole body starting scratching out of view. Yknow, like later in the fight or when he initially clocked Thor.

And I would expect him to be fighting hesitently with Thor for a multitude of reasons of which your already well aware I'm sure.
At best it shows Thor's ability to perry an incoming attack from a speedster.... Which says nothing of his over h2h combat speed, nor of his "blitzing" speed I keep hearing about. As soon as any super speed IN combat was implied by blue streaks and superspeed scratchmarks all over Thialfi, Thor got knocked upside the head.

Originally posted by leonidas
rather known for her near sky-father level powers in hel, and her overall knowledge of power.

Exactly... So being able to outfight her in h2h is of little relivence to anything impressive.

Originally posted by leonidas
why? it's not in his character. it never has been. he has shown more than enough times that he has superspeed available to him. you just keep claiming otherwise for whatever reason.
His BEST feat was him being able to move at a speed "almost faster" than the eye could follow.. that's not superspeed, that's enhanced speed at best. Other than that he just has a list of explosive speed feats that every high end street level has. It's hardly reason to claim Thor has "superspeed" a term that's used loosely around here but refers to damned speedsters.

It's not Thor's character? No, it's not his capability. He doesn't fight at "superspeed" because he quite simply can't.. it's specifically WHY he gets overwhelmed by people like Spiderman and Mongoose. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

where did i say he was too fast for logan to compete with? i said thor could easily match logan's speed and react to anything logan threw at him and it's not impossible he could use a blitz of his own. and after what's been shown, i still feel exactly the same way.

been fun. 😉

Sorry if I mistook your position on the matter as it IS the general concensus of your "side"

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
There goes Thor's instaneous reaction times EH?
Oh well.
So unless a character uses their top speed in EVERY possible situation they could or would want to use it, that serves to invalidate their other speed feats? 😐

Yeah. Sorry, I don't subscribe to "jinzin's logic of phail." Unlike you, if Superman or Thor or Cap or even Wolverine happens to not exhibit their peak combat speed in EVERY instance, I don't engage in eliminating every speed feat they have. Don't pull this pathetic garbage in any debate ever again.

Originally posted by jinzin
Now I fail to see how managing to swing his hammer twice in the course of two full sentences is more impressive than Wolverine cutting off Geists armor in the time he took to say one. Yeah, yeah I know we see Gladiator coming up on Thor fast, but the fact that the building was getting to Thor faster than he was should tell you he wasn't blitzing Thor as fast as possible either. I saw you ignore the Giest/Doc Samson armor removal. Perhaps you would like to explain why?
Don't be a troll. You're terrible at it. You've read enough comics to know that using a conversation bubble's text is never a reliable way to measure the space of time within a panel. What, are we supposed to now measure just how long nightcrawler was falling based on Kitty screaming, then Angel pleading with the Professor and then Wolverine bragging about how he's going to save him before he actually lands?
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7726/elfcatchinlv7.jpg

Did you just debunk srankmissingnin's own scan with your amazing logic of phail? 😱

No. You didn't. Because comic characters pontificate all the time in mid-punch or mid-leap so much that it's a running joke. I already pointed this out in the last thread. Way to keep up with the program:


Originally posted by jinzin
Another feat for Mjolnir? Good for the HAMMER.. maybe you would like to show something remotely related to Thor's speed in combat? Or Thor's speed at all?
Cause when it comes to his FTL speed reflexes that can block "instaneous bolts of telepathy from a relaxed position" it sure as hell didn't do much to help him from getting punched across the grill by a nutty Cap. And it never has for that matter.
Except that Thor is holding it and directing it in the direction he wants to make the trench. "Maybe I would like to show something remotely related to Thor's speed in combat?" What the hell do you think the near two dozen scans I've posted in our conversations were you slow-witted nunce? Memory capacity of a retarded gold-fish, much? Fine, here's another one courtesy of Badabing:
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3656/thorspeed014aw.jpg

Yeah, like how Wolverine's "zomg he blockz teh lazerz" feats didn't do much to help him getting his balls crushed by Punisher with a bat. FTL batswing? 😂

Originally posted by jinzin
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/ThorSuperspeed11a447.jpg

I have no clue how you think this shows Thor to be superior to anyone in a speed department, especially when all Juvan did there was literally jump down towards Thor. As Srank said, Wolverine's tagged Rogue in mid flight coming at him... Shit this is more impressive than that.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/948/speedballfj1mw3.jpg

Except Juvan uses his superspeed and they both confirm he's using it in their struggle on-panel. And as srankmissingnin has failed to show, why don't you post some scans of Wolverine tagging Rogue AFTER she began exhibiting clear super-speed later in her career. Because then, maybe you'd have a point. And Speedball has never exhibited speed beyond Juvan's.
Originally posted by jinzin
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/ThorSuperspeed15475.jpg
Wow "like the wind" huh?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7452/uxm178pg03lowresym9.jpg
And since we both know you're going to try lowballing this feat too.... How fast was Zefra going? We don't see Thor's reaction time in relation to her distance and speed. Three people were able to communicate before she even made it to the door. What part of that proves Thor's superiority in h2h combat speed? blah blah blah..

Take your questions and project them right back onto Wolverine's. Why would I bother lowballing it? Your own criticisms amply answer how you or I would scrutinize that feat. And stop phailing at life with your whole, "zomg, look at the conversation bubbles to measure the space of time!" blah blah blah..
Originally posted by jinzin
First scan, HAMMER.
Second scan, HAMMER....

what part of that is failing to sink in with you?
Those are not ANY sort of proof to Thor's combat speed whatsoever.

You have got to suffer from some heretofore unseen level of retardation to suggest that Thor catching Hermes twice with his off-hand is based only on the speed Mjolnir grants him. Thor isn't even racing with Hermes in the second one. How is this a travelling speed feat? Or what... are you suggesting that Mjolnir magically increases the speed at which is other arm moves to snatch the God of Speed? 🤨
Originally posted by jinzin
So... like I knew was to be the case before even getting into this, there wasn't one feat there and especially one h2h feat that showed Thor anywhere NEAR being above Wolverine's level and in most cases fell horribly short of stacking up to the little guy instead. Why? Because while he may be quick for a brick, he's not a speedster...
Too bad you're completely insane for Wolvie to notice that I've posted feats that match all of Wolverine's and surpassed them. Goldfish. Right. And I didn't say Thor was a speedster. Just that he has demonstrated the on-panel capacity for combat superspeed and reflex superspeed and Wolverine's speed does not allow him any sort of advantage over Thor. Anything but. Nuff said.

Ize19 Senior Member
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Give yourself the benefit of the doubt? Not a chance. Because no, it wasn't stated how fast it was going. Nor was it described how fast it was by narration. But what do we know that would help measure how fast it was going? All we know is that Wolverine and Mojo are yelling at each other while he's riding around on it, so it can't be going faster than they or his minions can perceive. Of course, artillery shells and tank shells do move faster than the eye can perceive. Which is plain obvious. To provide more context, post scans of the page before and after this rocket-riding scene.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't be a troll. You're terrible at it. You've read enough comics to know that using a conversation bubble's text is never a reliable way to measure the space of time within a panel. What, are we supposed to now measure just how long nightcrawler was falling based on Kitty screaming, then Angel pleading with the Professor and then Wolverine bragging about how he's going to save him before he actually lands?
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/...fcatchinlv7.jpg

Did you just debunk srankmissingnin's own scan with your amazing logic of phail?

No. You didn't. Because comic characters pontificate all the time in mid-punch or mid-leap so much that it's a running joke. I already pointed this out in the last thread. Way to keep up with the program.

😗

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Ize19
😗

lol

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by jinzin
Which was never stated nor implied on Thor's part and infact contradicted by the fact that Logan being a threat was exactly what made him so angry.

A scrape? :lol;
Just when I'm thinking you couldn't possibly make any less a convincing argument, there you go again.

Wolverine's claws went right through him with no resistance at all, and he lets out an RGH! in big bold black letters, then punches Wolverine with his opposite hand while the other arm is helpless to stop Strange from putting a charm around his neck (again. the speed would be where there?), THEN we see Thor holding the same arm that was hit, where he yelled and that was helpless to defend against Strange... the same arm that is NOWHERE to be seen when Thor tries to wrench the charm from his neck, and the same one that conveniently goes missing by the time he fights Hulk and Thing..... A scratch huh?

c'mon bro--you're better than that. i said BEFORE ANYTHING OCCURRED thor did not perceive logan as a threat. why would he bother even acknowledging--let alone reacting at speed--to someone he didn't think could do him any real harm? logan did surprise him, but it was hardly catastrophic and thor dealt with it--handily.

Yeah NONE of Thor's fights in that arc displayed superspeed that you're talkin about, including that with hours of fighting Hulk and Thing, and oh hey there's CAP again! 😱

most of thor's fight don't show him using superspeed. and? 😕

i've explained repeatedly why, and said repeatedly that just because he doesn't display it regularly does NOT preclude his having a degree of superspeed as has been shown numerous times. his speed seems to be played up when he faces the big boys (glads, hyperion, surfer) and played down when he faces the little guys (spidey, mongoose, cobra). draw from that what you will, it doesn't change the fact that he has shown on multiple occasions the ability to use a degree superspeed.

Yeah? no it doesn't.... When Thialfi was using superspeeds in that arc he was either streaking a blue line behind him or his whole body starting scratching out of view. Yknow, like later in the fight or when he initially clocked Thor.

🤨

when he 'clocked' thor there were no 'blue lines' behind him. there WERE lines behind his whole body when he blitzed thor however. not sure how else you want it shown that he was using superspeed to attack . . .

And I would expect him to be fighting hesitently with Thor for a multitude of reasons of which your already well aware I'm sure.
At best it shows Thor's ability to perry an incoming attack from a speedster.... Which says nothing of his over h2h combat speed, nor of his "blitzing" speed I keep hearing about. As soon as any super speed IN combat was implied by blue streaks and superspeed scratchmarks all over Thialfi, Thor got knocked upside the head.

huh? thor was clocked because he was nearly dead on his feet. so you think thialfi--who came to kill thor and was prepared to do so at the end-- simply . . . decided not to fight with him using his speed?

meh. you're perogative. doesn't make sense, but . . . shrug

His BEST feat was him being able to move at a speed "almost faster" than the eye could follow.. that's not superspeed, that's enhanced speed at best. Other than that he just has a list of explosive speed feats that every high end street level has. It's hardly reason to claim Thor has "superspeed" a term that's used loosely around here but refers to damned speedsters.

ain't a single high end street guy that could move as fast as thor did to dig that trench.

It's not Thor's character? No, it's not his capability. He doesn't fight at "superspeed" because he quite simply can't.. it's specifically WHY he gets overwhelmed by people like Spiderman and Mongoose. 😬

and yet he's not not overwhelmed by the likes of surfer, hyperion or gladiator--true FTL characters. hmmm . . . . strange . . .

Sorry if I mistook your position on the matter as it IS the general concensus of your "side" [/B]

no worries.

Battlehammer Senior Member

This is pretty simply show thor fighting with super speed beyond what a street could handle or stop saying he can.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But what do we know that would help measure how fast it was going? All we know is that Wolverine and Mojo are yelling at each other while he's riding around on it, so it can't be going faster than they or his minions can perceive.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't be a troll. You're terrible at it. You've read enough comics to know that using a conversation bubble's text is never a reliable way to measure the space of time within a panel.
Ize19: Slight difference, slick. I'll explain. Verbose conversation bubbles are not accurate references with which to measure the space of time it takes for a person to fall, or throw a punch, or leap at someone.

The act of conversing can be an indication of whether someone can perceive a fast-moving object or not. And being able to perceive a fast-moving object allows you to distinguish between whether an object is just moving fast, or moving faster than the eye can follow.

It's argued that Wolverine caught and is riding a rocket at extremely high speeds. There is a wide range of rocket speeds from a clunky 50 mph to a supersonic 3000 mph. You can follow the lower speeds with your eyes, you cannot follow the higher speeds with your eyes. The characters are conversing with each other. That suggests that the characters can see each other. The fact that the characters can see the rocket zooming about in different directions on a field, informs you that it can't be moving at speeds faster than the eye can follow. Therefore, the rocket is probably moving at lower speeds that rockets travel at, rather than the higher ones.

Get wut I'm sayin? Of course, more context is helpful, so if you have the pages before and after the rocket riding scene, we could talk about it more the same way we discussed the pistol-chamber feat.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So unless a character uses their top speed in EVERY possible situation they could or would want to use it, that serves to invalidate their other speed feats? 😐
Who's strawmanning now?
hehehe.

No, but if Thor is as fast as you keep attempting to claim I.E. beyond instataneous reaction times... then him being hit by anything less than, god, the speed force? should pretty much never happen.. and yet.... *looks through Thor's entire career*

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah. Sorry, I don't subscribe to "jinzin's logic of phail."
I'm not sure that you subscribe to logic at all Mr. "Wolverine blitzing a soldier from 40 feet away before another shot could be fired means nothing about his speed"> Which BTW was an HILAAAARIOUS POV on that feat.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Unlike you, if Superman or Thor or Cap or even Wolverine happens to not exhibit their peak combat speed in EVERY instance, I don't engage in eliminating every speed feat they have.

At what point did I "eliminate every speed feat he has"? 😕
I was just commenting on the fact that this feat of yours is contradictory to another feat you posted and trying to bring attention to the convenient nature that is Thor's career. Nice flying off the handle with a red herring though....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't pull this pathetic garbage in any debate ever again.

For someone who ignores as much evidence as you do.... I'll take this with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't be a troll. You're terrible at it.

I'm not NEARLY your equal that's for damned sure.

[QUOTE=11883811]Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]You've read enough comics to know that using a conversation bubble's text is never a reliable way to measure the

Bentley Seitei
Originally posted by Battlehammer
This is pretty simply show thor fighting with super speed beyond what a street could handle or stop saying he can.

Well, there is that time he blocked Stormbreaker thrown by a super srull...

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, there is that time he blocked Stormbreaker thrown by a super srull...

that not fighting at super speed and how is the more impressive then block laser firer

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

^ Battlehammer: Don't you start up with the blocking lasers garbage too. You're smarter than that.

Originally posted by jinzin
Who's strawmanning now?
hehehe.
Still you. It's not straw-manning when that's exactly what you're doing. Using any instance where he's hit by anything less than FTL attacks to suggest he cannot deal with FTL attacks... even though he has defended against FTL attacks? Garbage. Superman's been clonked by Atomic Skull, Thor's been punched by Cap, Cap's been tackled by paramedics, Wolverine's been nailed by a guy swinging a baseball bat. Don't ever use this ridiculous debating tactic ever again. Maybe because you're so desperate for any tactic, no matter how illegitimate, and never defending against it, you can't perceive how atrocious the argumentation is. So try defending against this comparison:
Originally posted by jinzin
No, but if Thor is as fast as you keep attempting to claim I.E. beyond instataneous reaction times... then him being hit by anything less than, god, the speed force? should pretty much never happen.. and yet.... *looks through Thor's entire career*
"No, but if Wolverine is as fast as you keep attempting to claim I.E. beyond bullet reaction times... then him being hit by anything less than, god, bullet speeds? should pretty much never happen.. and yet... *looks through Wolverine's entire career*"

Has the amount of phail in that sentence sunk in yet?

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not sure that you subscribe to logic at all Mr. "Wolverine blitzing a soldier from 40 feet away before another shot could be fired means nothing about his speed"> Which BTW was an HILAAAARIOUS POV on that feat.

At what point did I "eliminate every speed feat he has"? 😕
I was just commenting on the fact that this feat of yours is contradictory to another feat you posted and trying to bring attention to the convenient nature that is Thor's career. Nice flying off the handle with a red herring though....

Now he's 40 feet away and now you assume he was firing another shot. Which BTW is an HILAAAARIOUS POV on that feat.

It's the logical progression of your blatantly ridiculous reasoning: If Thor was so fast, he'd never get hit by anything slower. But he does. Therefore he's not that fast. Of course, what happens to the feats that demonstrate he is that fast? They fly off to lala land? Next time keep up with your own logic and how it plays out. It might end up informing you how ridiculous it can be.

Originally posted by jinzin
For someone who ignores as much evidence as you do.... I'll take this with a grain of salt.
You can throw a dash of pepper on it while you're at it.
Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not NEARLY your equal that's for damned sure.
That's right. Because you troll far more than I do.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by leonidas
c'mon bro--you're better than that. i said BEFORE ANYTHING OCCURRED thor did not perceive logan as a threat. why would he bother even acknowledging--let alone reacting at speed--to someone he didn't think could do him any real harm?
Which if this was a fact would be a good point.. but it isn't a fact. C'mon you're better than THIS... You're assuming that someone Hercules is afraid of being cut by doesn't even begin to make Thor think he'd need to move? That's pretty ridiculous and Thor's career doesn't exactly lend itself to make him believe he's beyond being eviscerated by Adamantium claws.

Originally posted by leonidas
logan did surprise him, but it was hardly catastrophic and thor dealt with it--handily.
using the Odinforce.. not this drastic speed he's supposed to have.

Originally posted by leonidas
most of thor's fight don't show him using superspeed. and? :confused [B]
If you can't see how this is relivent.. I can't help you really.

Originally posted by leonidas
[B] i've explained repeatedly why, and said repeatedly that just because he doesn't display it regularly does NOT preclude his having a degree of superspeed as has been shown numerous times. his speed seems to be played up when he faces the big boys (glads, hyperion, surfer) [B]
Except glads took the advantage to Thor due to speed and the SS thing was WM which I already disclude.

Originally posted by leonidas
[B]and played down when he faces the little guys (spidey, mongoose, cobra). draw from that what you will, it doesn't change the fact that he has shown on multiple occasions the ability to use a degree superspeed. [B]
It's a degree that doesn't surpass anything that most 1st class street levels have done.

Originally posted by leonidas
[B] 🤨

when he 'clocked' thor there were no 'blue lines' behind him. there WERE lines behind his whole body when he blitzed thor however. not sure how else you want it shown that he was using superspeed to attack . . .[B]

I already said the initial clash had him using his speed. 😕
Not while they were exchanging sword blows though which was vastly different in comparison and clearly so.

Originally posted by leonidas
[B] huh? thor was clocked because he was nearly dead on his feet. so you think thialfi--who came to kill thor and was prepared to do so at the end-- simply . . . decided not to fight with him using his speed?

meh. you're perogative. doesn't make sense, but . . . shrug

I think that while he burst at Thor using his speed once they connected he had a moment of hesitation putting into action a plan he had been in conflict with from the very beginning. Like he said he wanted to remind Thor of what he was. I also think there's a pretty clear difference in his artistic representation when he starts using his superspeed then when he isn't and when he's clashing swords with Thor, it's definitely not the superspeedy look he's sporting.

Originally posted by leonidas
ain't a single high end street guy that could move as fast as thor did to dig that trench.
Almost faster than the eye can follow? ...
Most of em have. 😕

Now if it's your contention that Thor can move at that "almost faster" speed for longer than any streeter could I guess that's YOUR perogative. But to continue to think that a slower feat is more impressive than a faster feat because of it's duration is a bit of comparing apples to oranges no?

Originally posted by leonidas
and yet he's not not overwhelmed by the likes of surfer, hyperion or gladiator--true FTL characters. hmmm . . . . strange . . .
Not really. Especially since when people like Glads DO turn up the heat Thor's hammer gets launched out of his hands.. hmmmm..... strange.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Too bad. I take pleasure in busting your ridiculous myths. You certainly have an "interesting" take on how our Wolverine: Origins starvation myth debate resolved itself. 😂
Myths... you know... supported by narrative, feats, and more narrative.. and more feats... and more narrative.... yeah... but it isn't what YOU would have done in the same situation so it must be a myth... Moving on.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
False. Poor use of straw-man right off the bat. I only suggested that Thor has demonstrated enough combat speed and reflex speed feats that he wouldn't have issues with Wolverine's speed, whereas you suggested Wolverine would be dancing around him. Strike one.
Says the pot to the kettle. yeah never said Wolverine would dance around Thor while you DO keep insisting that Thor's speed feats clearly outstrip Wolverine's.. again it was the position you began defending. 😬

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You either don't deal with flying characters too often or you're trolling. Just because he is flying, doesn't make this a travelling speed feat. Here, Thor needed to precisely time the position Mjolnir would be in to intercept the bullet. Had he just gone at 3x light speed, he'd have blown through the entire building. It's a similar, if lower in scale, speed feat such as this:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanAC835.jpg
Once again, straw-man. I already pointed out myself that Thor's attention was caught by Jane. The speed comes into play where Thor wasn't even in the room by the time the dart had already been fired by Cobra, who was only a few feet away from Jane.

He didn't have to be in the room because he was using his HAMMER to fly...
Again, if your contention is that this is an OH-so impressive feat on Thor's part because he managed to use Mjolnir to precisely block one friggin dart then you need to understand that it doesn't say much about his speed at all. 😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Wolverine already being in position next to the cyborg by the time the darts are fired to cut them out of the air is far more impressive than Thor, who wasn't even in the room when the darts were already fired, yet managed to intercept Cobra's dart?
😂 Wolverine was behind Giest when Giest was told to start shooting, and somehow managed to get in front of him and block multiple darts while doing so before they reached their target.

Thor's ability to get to the dart is completely inconsequential no matter where he is as long as it was the hammer getting him from point a to point b.. this really shouldn't have to be explained to you. The only thing impressive about that (MAYBE) was Thor's ability to block one dart... WOW....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
hysterical
Straw-man. Thor had to fly out of the sky, land, plan his trajectory, unleash his shockwave blow, and have enough time for the shockwave to travel across the entire city within 1.2 seconds. Thor didn't use the entire 1.2 seconds to hit the ground with his hammer. I already called out srankmissingnin for trolling on this exact point, way to ignore that in the hopes that nobody would notice.
Again his speed while flying INCONSEQUENTIAL...... his ability to hit the ground WOW... so much speed! And it would be impressive if the shockwave weren't moving at the speed of sound which means that most of the time taken to produce the feat came from Thor's ability to hit the ground.... How sad.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
2 seconds to throw a few pre-planned punches at dummies who aren't even moving. I also like how you tried to suggest that despite Wolverine correcting Kitty's 5 second measurement with his own measurement of 2 seconds, Wolverine must have been wrong and did it faster than he stated on-panel. That's a good one
dur
[/B][/QUOTE]
That smiley suits you well... Are you touched in the head or something? Wolverine's 5'3 and dropped cigars from that shoulder length don't even take 2 seconds to hit the floor, hell they don't even take ONE.... As I said 2 seconds was being QUITE generous it's monumentally more impressive than hitting the ground once "within" the span of 1.2 seconds.. this is not up for debate....

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
facepalm I know it's your day-job to blow Wolverine's feats out of proportion... but this is just ridiculous. You really are suggesting that Cyclops shot light speed beams at Wolverine, and subsequently, before they could even reach him... Wolverine pulled a sword out and swiped them away?
What I'm suggesting, since I was obviously giving you too much credit to follow, is that he produced a microsecond feat in the same regard as Thor... unless you think Scott's blasts travel at a slower pace than bullets, which they've already been said to be as dense and fast....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Are you trying to insult everyone's intelligence with these fantastical wet-dreams?
Like when you arbitrarily decided telepathic manifestations move at light speed?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Good lord. You obviously can't find microsecond or nanosecond speed feats for Wolverine, but going to these lengths to avoid admitting that Thor's speed is superior is just depressing.

So you think Scotts beams are slower than an arrow in close range cause in order for that to NOT be a microsecond feat, they would have to be.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except that the scan says it instantly races at Thor. 😐

Do you not understand the grammerical difference in someone using a weapon instantly and that weapon having an instantaneous effect? 🤨

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd laugh if your illiteracy didn't make me pity you. I mean... the word "instantly" is literally right in front of the word "races."

Yes because a bullet can "instantly" leave a barrel of a gun but the bullet doesn't have an instantaneous effect either.... Andyou talk about how I blow things out of proportion?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And you're assuming your conclusion: "This feat doesn't prove he's that fast, because he isn't fast enough to accomplish such a feat.

Again do you even comprehend what the word instantaneous even means?

If the effects of the bolt where as instantaneous as telepathy Thor necessarily COULDN'T react after it was fired.... no one could. It's simple logic...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Therefore, he isn't that fast." Another logical fallacy.Don't bother wasting anybody's time with aim blocking lasers. Thor aim blocks lasers all the time. Reading a person or reading how they're telegraphing their shot/aim and positioning yourself to evade/defend BEFORE the laser shot's been fired is not evidence of FTL reflexes.
Execpt that Wolverine's done it with multitudes of lazers in dark rooms or against entire armies, or while doing multiple training excersizes. When it would be rather impossible to do any such thing.... Of course this is just another example of your endless hypocrisy at work...

Did you just try to argue that me saying Thor can't do it because he's not fast enough is a logical fallacy? "hey hey POT!" "**** OFF KETTLE!"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
This simple premise has been repeated already in this thread. Not being in position to evade/defend yourself AFTER the laser's been fired and then evading/defending yourself is evidence of FTL reflexes. Unless you can prove that a a shot was fired BEFORE a character was in a position to evade/defend don't waste your time or mine.
Yknow or evading the blasts as they're fired at you since it wouldn't matter being a laser 🤨

of course I'm waisting your time, I know I won't change your mind, as you won't change mine either.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The robot was activated before Wolverine helped Rogue dodge. The laser itself wasn't activated before Wolverine helped Rogue dodge. Slight difference, slick. Don't misrepresent your own scans when I can fugging see them.

The robot was already activated before Wolverine kicked Rogue out of the way. I see... so when it's pheonix, shooting bolts it's an instantaneous reaction feat, when it's a lazer turning on to fire, it's nothin.. convenient as usual.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fighting on instinct or fighting before someone can process the thoughts they pick up from another person's mind and formulating their own battle plans is nothing like blocking a telepathic blast after its already been fired.
You're right because one of them involves moving at the speed of thought and the other involves moving fast enough for physically manifested psionic energy to travel.. One is obvious and the other's ambiguous... One's more impressive and the other's Thor..
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Modern tactical missiles can attain the higher speeds after the initial booster stage. And we are not dealing with the fastest rocket plane evre made by man. Nor are we dealing with a NASA space shuttle.
No we're dealing with cruise missile launched using a stealth bomber.....

to assume it was going a mere 50mph especially when it was en route long before Wolverine got ahold of it, is just plain asinine.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Give yourself the benefit of the doubt? Not a chance. Because no, it wasn't stated how fast it was going. Nor was it described how fast it was by narration. But what do we know that would help measure how fast it was going? All we know is that Wolverine and Mojo are yelling at each other while he's riding around on it, so it can't be going faster than they or his minions can perceive.
😐 Wolverine was caught in a vortex while riding the missile and using it to slice and dice the crap out of those superhuman zombies, so mojo's ability to see the missile wippin around in a vortex really doesn't matter much....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Of course, artillery shells and tank shells do move faster than the eye can perceive. Which is plain obvious. To provide more context, post scans of the page before and after this rocket-riding scene.
Which parts? Wolverine's riding around on it for some time before the end
How about you show me the tank feat.
And again defecting to this nonsense of being undetectable to the human eye... Rockets are used to reach escape velocity.. and it isn't undetectable to the human eye... The ability to see a rocket vs. a tank shell isn't contingent on speed alone...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except tank and artillery shells are MUCH faster than bullets.

No.. some of them are. But not on the by and large.. they are around the same speed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And your use of aim blocking lasers is completely incorrect. And no, my position isn't Thor is suddenly loads faster than Wolverine. My position always was Wolverine's speed wouldn't give him insurmountable problems since Thor has demonstrated a greater capacity for combat speed and reflex speed. I know these scans prove to you, a person who didn't know this until now, and thus it was a sudden discovery for you that Thor's loads faster than Wolverine. But don't project your own surprise onto me and misrepresent my statements.
😂 You're whole position this argument has been that Thor's faster than Wolverine, that Wolverine's feats don't come close to what Thor has done. Anyone with basic reasoning skill can see exactly what kind of argument you're attempting to make and again, all half of Wolverine's feats vs. lasers have nothing to do with "aim blocking" or whatever other pathetic excuse you want to come up with. Thor has never demonstrated better combat speed OR reflex speed... and it WOULD certainly be news to me if Thor were superfast because I've been reading Thor comics for a number of years now and haven't seen this superspeed you keep deciding that he has...