Galen Marek vs Yoda

Started by Borbarad16 pages
Originally posted by Nephthys
And yet Dooku had no problems in dealing with Yoda's strength, in direct comparison to the considerable and highlighted difficulty he had with Anakin, whose strength is weaker than someone who has strength like the above (Anakin's best feat iirc is ripping apart some random droid in Sithisis).

He had no problems with Yoda's strength? He ran from Yoda twice, if I didn't get something wrong with the AotC script claiming that Yoda was "battering his defense" once he started fighting. And I didn't see Dooku having any difficulties with Anakin's strength. The movie shows Dooku blocking Anakin and Kenobi simultaneously and lets him fence off Anakin's swings even in the last seconds of the fight. That the less-canon novel proclaims something else is not my problem. It doesn't happen on screen, so it didn't happen at all.


Plus I question the canonicity of the source. The Clone Wars adventure books are non-canon iirc. I can't find any link to LucasArts for example.

I hope you know that LucasArts is responsible for computer games, so they don't deal with comics. For the Clone Wars Adventures: They are an official product running under SW licensing, which means that LFL has an eye on it. You don't like it? Who cares? As long as you don't bring anything to the table to put the canon status into question, those comics are C-canon.

I don't know. I don't know how much the feat would be affected by being in space. Jinsoku Takai knows a lot about it though, so try him.

So you're trying to argue something while openly stating that you don't have an idea about what you're arguing? Nice.


But its probably more than the first two feats, its not too hard to cause an avalanche and Durasteel wieghs and has more mass than the rock of the temple, so it'll be harder to move.

Really? Care to give us the source that lists the density of durasteel, because I've never seen anything like that. It doesn't have to be more heavy than stone in order to be more durable. And we're not talking about density but about durability. An 80 kilogram block of styrofoam can support about 20 tons of steel, despite the fact that styrofoam consists of 98 % air.


Dunno about the transports, but given a Star Destroyers sheer size, probably.

The transports have a width of 370 and a length of 210 metres. And contrary to Marek, Yoda did first force push the complacement coming out of the ships back into the transports, then lifted the transports and crashed them against eachother - while operating on a planet sporting a regular gravitation. So he had to lift the entire mass agains the gravitational pull of the planet, which would, without doubt, be a little more tricky than turning an object in space.

Star Wars energy generators generally give off massive amounts of energy, which you should recall from your excursion into the Star Trek forum.

Oh. I'm pretty aware of that fact.
What you don't seem to be aware of, is the fact, that we don't know how powerful the generator we saw was, or if it was something useful at all. Why would somebody generate a huge amount of energy just to pass it into some electricity pylons? What was the energy needed for? How much energy was generated at all?

You don't have an answer to those questions. Thusly, you're basically arguing like "Gee. That looked awesome, so Vader must be uber".


Its notable that the lightning Galen was using appeared to be of such intensity that he was having trouble containing it. This is notable becuase Mareks FLightning is enough to down an AT-ST, so that and him preferring that over his own lightning is a good indication of power. Though really I'd prefer to wait until I can read the book before further commenting.

a) Marek bringing down an AT-ST with force lightning alone? Can you remind me, where exactly that happened? The only fight against an AT-ST I recall from TUF is the one in the TIE Fighter facility. And later he fights Captain Ozzik Sturn who sits in an modified AT-ST (AT-KT) on Kashyyyk. As far as I recall, he did quite more than just using force lightning in those incidents.

b) You're arguing in circles. The lightning must be powerful, because Galen has trouble containing it? So Galen must be powerful, because otherwise his trouble to contain the lightning wouldn't be anything special. You use the thing you want to prove as premise for the argument you make.

c) You ignore the circumstances of this incident. Galen and Vader have dealt severe blows with the force to each other before. Vader flung Galen out of the window, Galen force pushed Vader to the pylons, Vader threw Galen over the platform, Galen did cut Vader's arm off, Vader threw one of the pylons on Starkiller, who countered that attack in the same manner.

It's quite clear, that after that kind of intense fighting, none of the two would be in top shape any longer. This might be the explanation why Galen doesn't thrust his own power and decides to use the energy from the outside source in order to overcome his master.

d) The most basic thing is that you (and other people) keep ignoring Vader's suit. Vader is completely isolated from his enviroment. His suit is an airtight mixture of plastoids and armorplates. The plastoids wouldn't be good contuctors, and we know that Durasteel doesn't conduct energy too well. The point? Vader's suit would isolate him from any kind of electricity, with the only things that might be damaged are the life support control at the front and the comm-system on the back of his suit.

So what is so special about him surviving electricity or force lightning getting directed at him? He basically lives in a freaking faraday cage.

Jedi are above humans and have means of protencting themselves, so lightning usually killing them doesn't really mean much. I know Sids lightning is powerful, I was just saying this is another example.

Great. I present proof why the instance of frying Vader was nothing special, and you counter with "Oh. Yeah. I know it was powerful. This is another instance." Good god.

Sidious lightning might be powerful, but him killing Vader with it is the worst possible incident to prove it's power. Vader was kept alive by an electronic system, which control was on the outside of his suit. And even that kept working after the assault of the Emperor. This damage could be done with any form of electricity generating an overcurrent in his breather, where a rather low amount of energy might be sufficient to do that job.

@Lucien:

So, what conclusion has been reached besides the "context" point?

The point was, that one can't argue based on showings from the CW cartoon, as those showings are exaggerations of what "really happened" inside the SW universe. Instead, use other sources to get the job done.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But the Force Unleashed guys say you can? They too admitted the powers were "crazy over-the-top". But Marek (and Clone) still killed all those guys.

What "guys" are you talking about? Marek certainly didn't kill as many people as the gameplay makes it seem. Much like Kyle Katarn, the Exile or Revan before him. It's simply unreasonable to assume that a Jedi (or Sith for that matter) would rush into every possible combat scenario, while being equipped with a plethora of abilities to avoid combat.

@Darth Power:

Also if I remember correctly in the cw mini he just lifts a whole load of destroyer droids, whilst in the new animation he takes on about 4 of them(i think) but needs the clone troopers help to take them out.

You should rewatch the first episode of the new animated series. During his mission on Rugosa, Yoda first destroys a squad of normal battledroids without even igniting his lightsaber. Then he does the same again with a squad of super battle droids (lifting one of them and making him use his weapons against the others). After this, he takes it up with the rest of Asajj Ventress forces, destroying several droid tanks and dozens of droids on one occassion. The only thing he doesn't destroy in the episodes are the droidekas left after his onslaught.

@Sidious66

Gosh. That reply of yours was brilliant. Not.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I can be convinced that some of it was exaggerated as far as the speed and ease in which the feats were performed, but the fact remains that the feats were still done.

They weren't done as they appear on screen. Fact. Cry yourself to sleep if you don't like it.


The battle of Dantooine consisted of a huge siesmic tank which usually holds hundreds of battle droids. Mace was the only one there to take them all on by himself. During the battle Mace lost his saber and had to rely on heavy force usage and his bare hands. Maybe it did take him a lot longer than 5 minutes to wipe them all out. But he did solo the entire army and the seismic tank (alone), and that is canon. Same way with Yoda, he did destroy those landing crafts with the force unless Lucas says other wise.

I'd encourage you to rewatch the scene, as you're talking out of your ass. He doesn't solo the army. He destroys 22 droids with his lightsaber, before being disarmed, melees additional 9 droids, takes down another 17 with the force and cuts down about 20 inside the seismic tank. This can be rewatched here

Anything else he does is some force pushing, which typically doesn't destroy B1 battle droids. And usually, Windu can't do the stuff on that magnitude either. If he could, he would have solo'd Geonosis. If he could, he could have liberated Ryloth far more easily than he did in the higher level canon. So, de facto, those action has to be exaggerated, because it contradicts the narration of every other piece of Star Wars material we've seen so far.


That's like me saying General Grievous did not solo Mundi, Ti, and them other jedi since he was not able to in the new series, when there is more proof that he did. We can not pick and choose which feats we want as canon.

And then again, we've Dooku proclaiming that Grievous won't be able to deal with a single council member in "Labyrinth of Evil", let alone three council members at once with support of an additional Jedi. We've Lucas himself proclaiming, that Grievous is a coward (RotS commentary). Does that look as if he would confront several high ranking Jedi in a 4on1 situation when having an entire army of droids to deal with them? I don't think so.


@POWER:
Filoni is not a source. He does not decide what he wants as canon. And Lucas NEVER said the feats were exaggerated.

Holy shit.
Lucas, when having the opportunity to do anything he wanted in the new animation, decided not to depict the Jedi as they are in the CW cartoons. Notice how Filoni says that "we decided" with mentioning "George" as the other part of the "we". So Lucas himself decided to not make the new animated show like the CW cartoons, because of their exaggerated action and storyline.

Hard to cope with, but: You lose.


@Borbarad:

You said the creator said that the feats in his cartoons were exaggerated, but when I questioned your claim you turned around and said you would have to rewatch it and that you are arguing out of memory. That is bull (lol). You and I both know that the creator never made this claim in his commentary.

Oh, really?

I didn't have any reason to lie, because I still have two sources proclaiming that those cartoons were exaggerated, one indirectly saying that Lucas himself didn't want the Jedi to appear like that. Can you remind me where you've posted anything to back your claims? Oh. Of course not. Because you didn't do anything like that. It's really lovely, that you say I want people to take my word for it, when you demand nothing else from them. Thrust your word over mine. I still think that Tartakovsy said something in that regard, but to me, it doesn't matter if Genndy Tartakovsky said it or not. Why?

Even if we but the comments of Cherasi and Feloni aside, and simply ignore the fact that the depiction of the Jedi in the CW cartoons is totally not in line with all other sources, this here puts the debate to an end: BAM.

"The way George explained it to me going in was that THE CLONE WARS micro-series was really an experiment to see what kind of audience there was for Star Wars in an animated form.[...]So when we into doing this, I think that, now that George is done with the prequels, he wanted to reestablish the rules a little bit more, like "Mace Windu can't take out hundreds of battle droids by himself, otherwise the arena on Geonosis would've been a wipeout"

Guess what? YOU ARE OUT. Boom. History. End of debate. Feloni happily proclaims that Lucas himself didn't want the CW cartoon uber feats any longer and wanted another depiction of the Jedi for the "real show". And, as Lucas dictates the rules, those uber feats out. Mace can't kill hundreds of battle droids by himself. There goes your argument.

Anything else to say? No? Fine.

Well first of all I'd like to point out that I had no intention on debating with you. I made some statements of personal opinion and you challenged them. I don't know why I'm sensing some hostility from you Borbarad but I suggest you back the **** off and be a little more polite or I'm not talking with you about this anymore.

Originally posted by Borbarad
[B]He had no problems with Yoda's strength? He ran from Yoda twice, if I didn't get something wrong with the AotC script claiming that Yoda was "battering his defense" once he started fighting. And I didn't see Dooku having any difficulties with Anakin's strength. The movie shows Dooku blocking Anakin and Kenobi simultaneously and lets him fence off Anakin's swings even in the last seconds of the fight. That the less-canon novel proclaims something else is not my problem. It doesn't happen on screen, so it didn't happen at all.[b]

He ran from Yoda becuase Yoda was clearly the superior combatant. Nothing suggests it was due to strength other than your personal interpretation that becuase the term 'battering' is used that Yoda's strength is being highlighted, whilst its a subjective term with the effect and success of the'battering' not being said. Indeed, watching the scene again there seems to be next to no actual hits, most being glancing blows or saber-locks. /personal interpretation. This is probably becuase the entire focus of Yoda's Ataru is specifically made to focus on speed and agility over raw physical strength.

As for the second part of your paragrath. That's just your interpretation, it isn't canon. Dooku blocks them whilst Anakin and Obi-Wan are intentionally luring him into a sense of false security. And it was early in the fight, with Anakin later described as having been growing in physical strength since the start of the fight. Nothing in that scen contradicts whats in the novel, so its canon.

I hope you know that LucasArts is responsible for computer games, so they don't deal with comics. For the Clone Wars Adventures: They are an official product running under SW licensing, which means that LFL has an eye on it. You don't like it? Who cares? As long as you don't bring anything to the table to put the canon status into question, those comics are C-canon.

Yeah, as I was writing I was tring to remember whether LucasArts was just game but **** it, Lucas' franchise is so big now I'm having trouble keeping track of it. As for the comics, they're written by two guys I've never heard of under the production of Dark Horse. I'd like to see some proof of their official SW licensing. TBH all I remember about them is the other members shrugging them off whenever they were brought up.

So you're trying to argue something while openly stating that you don't have an idea about what you're arguing? Nice.

Shank off. I wasn't arguing jack-shit. You asked why I thought it was impressive and I said I wasn't sure it was anymore. So bluh bluh shut up.

Really? Care to give us the source that lists the density of durasteel, because I've never seen anything like that. It doesn't have to be more heavy than stone in order to be more durable. And we're not talking about density but about durability. An 80 kilogram block of styrofoam can support about 20 tons of steel, despite the fact that styrofoam consists of 98 % air.

Well if we're talking about durability.....

Durasteel 'has been calculated to be approximately 300,000 times stronger than steel'.

* Star Wars Sourcebook
* Star Wars Sourcebook, Second Edition
* Star Wars Gamemaster Handbook, Second Edition
* Cracken's Threat Dossier
* "Alien Anthology Addendum"—Star Wars Gamer 7
* Kessel: Hell in Space on Wizards.com
* Star Wars Trading Card Game – The Empire Strikes Back (Card: Darth Vader)
* Star Wars Trading Card Game – The Empire Strikes Back (Card: Armor Plating)
* "Who's Who: Imperial Grand Admirals"—Star Wars Insider 66
* The Story of General Grievous: Lord of War on Hyperspace
* The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
* Rebellion Era Campaign Guide
* Scavenger's Guide to Droids

My source is Wookiepedia obviously. 😉

The transports have a width of 370 and a length of 210 metres. And contrary to Marek, Yoda did first force push the complacement coming out of the ships back into the transports, then lifted the transports and crashed them against eachother - while operating on a planet sporting a regular gravitation. So he had to lift the entire mass agains the gravitational pull of the planet, which would, without doubt, be a little more tricky than turning an object in space.

Firstly, whether it was in space or not hasn't been verified. Significantly, the ship Marek was in is falling down to the planet, suggesting that gravity is working on it. Naturally however, I don't know becuase it only came out a week ago, I havn't played it nor read the book. This is just my initial reactions to it. I'm not quoting this stuff as gospel. Yet. So would you kindly back off.

Oh. I'm pretty aware of that fact.
What you don't seem to be aware of, is the fact, that we don't know how powerful the generator we saw was, or if it was something useful at all. Why would somebody generate a huge amount of energy just to pass it into some electricity pylons? What was the energy needed for? How much energy was generated at all?

You don't have an answer to those questions. Thusly, you're basically arguing like "Gee. That looked awesome, so Vader must be uber".

No, I'm 'arguing' that since Star Wars generators have massive energy payouts, and that Marek had visible difficulty containing the sheer amount of energy judging from the amount that was leaking off him then it was obviously a high amount. And it looked lame as hell btw.

a) Marek bringing down an AT-ST with force lightning alone? Can you remind me, where exactly that happened? The only fight against an AT-ST I recall from TUF is the one in the TIE Fighter facility. And later he fights Captain Ozzik Sturn who sits in an modified AT-ST (AT-KT) on Kashyyyk. As far as I recall, he did quite more than just using force lightning in those incidents.

In the first novel, near the end in the Death Star I believe.

b) You're arguing in circles. The lightning must be powerful, because Galen has trouble containing it? So Galen must be powerful, because otherwise his trouble to contain the lightning wouldn't be anything special. You use the thing you want to prove as premise for the argument you make.

No, I'm arguing that becuase Galen had trouble containing it it was powerul. Thats it. 😐

c) You ignore the circumstances of this incident. Galen and Vader have dealt severe blows with the force to each other before. Vader flung Galen out of the window, Galen force pushed Vader to the pylons, Vader threw Galen over the platform, Galen did cut Vader's arm off, Vader threw one of the pylons on Starkiller, who countered that attack in the same manner.

It's quite clear, that after that kind of intense fighting, none of the two would be in top shape any longer. This might be the explanation why Galen doesn't thrust his own power and decides to use the energy from the outside source in order to overcome his master.

I'm aware of that. What of it? In the first game Galen fought through the Death Star, beat Vader then fought Sidious and could still take his lightning. I highly doubt a single fight with Vader is going to exhaust him.

d) The most basic thing is that you (and other people) keep ignoring Vader's suit. Vader is completely isolated from his enviroment. His suit is an airtight mixture of plastoids and armorplates. The plastoids wouldn't be good contuctors, and we know that Durasteel doesn't conduct energy too well. The point? Vader's suit would isolate him from any kind of electricity, with the only things that might be damaged are the life support control at the front and the comm-system on the back of his suit.

So what is so special about him surviving electricity or force lightning getting directed at him? He basically lives in a freaking faraday cage.

I don't understand. Its not special becuase special circumstamces give him the special ability to tank lightning effectively? Is that what you're saying?

Great. I present proof why the instance of frying Vader was nothing special, and you counter with "Oh. Yeah. I know it was powerful. This is another instance." Good god.

Which was my original point.

'Vader tanks an ungodly amount of electricity in the final boss fight. Consider that Sidious took him out with a short 2 second burst and Sidious' FLightning is once again shown to be stupidly powerful.'

We already know that Sidious' lightning is powerful. I don't need to prove that becuase its already been preven to be so. I was just saying that its another high-end feat for him. The only objectional point in my original post was when I said it made Sidious more powerful. If it pissed you off so much I'll be happy to take it back.

Continued:

Sidious lightning might be powerful, but him killing Vader with it is the worst possible incident to prove it's power. Vader was kept alive by an electronic system, which control was on the outside of his suit. And even that kept working after the assault of the Emperor. This damage could be done with any form of electricity generating an overcurrent in his breather, where a rather low amount of energy might be sufficient to do that job.[/B]

And yet it didn't when Galen electricuted him in the first book, nor here when he chanelled an few energy pilons into him. So obviously a low amount won't cut it. Nor will a high amount since Galen's AT-ST wrecking lightning didn't faze him. So essentially this takes away the vaunted 'weakness' of Vader's. Any old slob with FLightning isn't going to be taking him down with it. You need Sids level stuff to do the trick.

Also, someone in the TFU2 thread over in the VG forum said that Vader uses Force Lightning in this one. Just a heads up guys. 😐

Borborad makes a strong argument this time. A few insignificant flaws, but strong nonetheless.

Originally posted by Borbarad
[b]@Lucien:

The point was, that one can't argue based on showings from the CW cartoon, as those showings are exaggerations of what "really happened" inside the SW universe. Instead, use other sources to get the job done. [/B]

That's exactly what I'm in favour of doing. I just refuse to omit anything that happened in an admittedly exaggerated telling just because it's been deemed such. Yoda's handling of the landing pads was shown, and nothing so far has excused it from canon. Once something comes along, it's all cool.

Originally posted by Borbarad
What "guys" are you talking about? Marek certainly didn't kill as many people as the gameplay makes it seem. Much like Kyle Katarn, the Exile or Revan before him. It's simply unreasonable to assume that a Jedi (or Sith for that matter) would rush into every possible combat scenario, while being equipped with a plethora of abilities to avoid combat.
Yeah they like to. But meh, the novel describes the swath he cut through the imperial forces, wrecked walkers, stormtroopers in piles. Unleashed Marek (exaggerated) still did these things.

If Revan only had a novel..... Its true, Forget the game, TFU novel makes Marek a force beast.

One KotOR novel would solve a lot of canon problems. Hell, even let Drew "Grade 10" Karypshyn write. Better than nothing.

Not that it would make them money now. Seven years down the road.

exactly, we could stop crushing Kotor Fanboys and maybe finally grow our membership...

"I dreamed a dream..."

in time gone by
When hope was high
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TG, you ARE cultured!

I could also say I've seen the Susan Boyle video, but Les Miserables sounds better.

Originally posted by Borbarad
BAM.

"The way George explained it to me going in was that THE CLONE WARS micro-series was really an experiment to see what kind of audience there was for Star Wars in an animated form.[...]So when we into doing this, I think that, [b]now that George is done with the prequels, he wanted to reestablish the rules a little bit more, like "Mace Windu can't take out hundreds of battle droids by himself, otherwise the arena on Geonosis would've been a wipeout" [/B]

Well waddu know?? Dave Filoni and possibly Lucas himself there using my strange common sense.. Could it be that its just general common sense??

Originally posted by Borbarad
Guess what? YOU ARE OUT. Boom. History. End of debate.

Trust me its not. Until Lucas comes down to theres houses and tells them himself.. Until then They believe only wat theyve SEEN


"Mace Windu can't take out hundreds of battle droids by himself, otherwise the arena on Geonosis would've been a wipeout"

This is a direct quote from Lucas?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well waddu know?? Dave Filoni and possibly Lucas himself there using my strange common sense.. Could it be that its just general common sense??

Trust me its not. Until Lucas comes down to theres houses and tells them himself.. Until then They believe only wat theyve SEEN

You are acting as if you won some kind of debate. You have brought NOTHING to the table to prove your arguement. Your word means absolutely NOTHING compared to what is shown onscreen, unless you have a source to back your word up. Filoni's personal opinion on another source is not canon; he does not have any authority over canon other than what is shown in his cartoon. Spouting out "well use your common sense" or "those powers were not displayed on the movies" does not help either, since the majority of the EU is exaggerated when compared to the movies, especially TFU. And yes, the jedi on TFU, not just the sith. I gave you examples and you keep ignoring them. For future reference, please do not argue like this again.

As for Borborad's quote I guess that is fair enough. Although it is still kinda hard to pick which feats were canon and which were not. Did Yoda not destroy those landing crafts. Did Grievous not fight three masters. If we ignore the feats in the cartoons then some of the episodes would be just as canon as the infinity comics.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You are acting as if you won some kind of debate.

Iv brought common sense to the table. Something you seem to seriously lack.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You have brought NOTHING to the table to prove your arguement. Your word means absolutely NOTHING compared to what is shown onscreen, unless you have a source to back your word up.

Your arguments are just getting ridiculous now. I told you about Filonis quote, you said your not gna take my word for it. Then Borbarad showed clear quoted by Filoni on how LUCAS himself has told him to make the show.. That is not exaggerated like the mini, which was just a "testing ground" to check if there was audience for star wars animation, but in line with the movies. That is in line with the Star Wars Universe Lucas has created.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Filoni's personal opinion on another source is not canon; he does not have any authority over canon other than what is shown in his cartoon.

You mean except his T-Canon source which is more canon than any other source you can throw at me bar the movies themselves.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Spouting out "well use your common sense"

I wnt do that anymore because you clearly have none.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
or "those powers were not displayed on the movies" does not help either, since the majority of the EU is exaggerated

Example?? No none. Right so its you whose brought NOTHING to this argument. And yes iv have totally kicked your ass on this debate. Youve got nothing, youve showed nothing, and your arguments as usual have been lame.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And yes, the jedi on TFU, not just the sith. I gave you examples and you keep ignoring them.

Care to repeat because I dnt remember you giving any examples.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
For future reference, please do not argue like this again.

EXCUSE MEEE!!! Argue like what??!! What u dnt want me to bring common sense to the table, just because you have none. Or dnt want me to use Dave Filonis comments about how the T-Canon show is to depict jedi powers?? What exactly do you not want me to keep bringing to these arguments. Im actually surprised people waste their time debating you. You bring nothing, ever. And clearly too arrogant to admit YOUR WRONG.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As for Borborad's quote I guess that is fair enough.

You just said it doesnt count. Make up your mind.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Although it is still kinda hard to pick which feats were canon and which were not.

Which is why we say ignore them Genius.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Did Yoda not destroy those landing crafts.

We dnt know. Probably not that easily with simple hand gestures mid battle.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Did Grievous not fight three masters.

Probably. They were exhausted.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If we ignore the feats in the cartoons then some of the episodes would be just as canon as the infinity comics.

So what? Get over it.

Chris Cerasi, "The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

Here Cerasi seems to be getting at the idea that everything in Star Wars canon, besides the movie, may not be wholly true... I guess what this means is we should throw everything out the window right? After all we don't know what’s true or not, what’s exaggerated, what actually happened. We just can't tell. As such we will simply not use it in any debates and only look to the movies.

What I’m getting at here is yes the Genndy Series is exaggerated but so is most of the EU. I mean DE depicts Palpatine destroying entire fleets, TFU has Vader move at incredible speeds, etc… So if we are going to discard the cartoon why not discard the rest of the EU as well. After all the EU tries to stay “consistent with mine (the GL Universe) as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Iv brought common sense to the table. Something you seem to seriously lack.

Your arguments are just getting ridiculous now. I told you about Filonis quote, you said your not gna take my word for it. Then Borbarad showed clear quoted by Filoni on how LUCAS himself has told him to make the show.. That is not exaggerated like the mini, which was just a "testing ground" to check if there was audience for star wars animation, but in line with the movies. That is in line with the Star Wars Universe Lucas has created.

You mean except his T-Canon source which is more canon than any other source you can throw at me bar the movies themselves.

I wnt do that anymore because you clearly have none.

Example?? No none. Right so its you whose brought NOTHING to this argument. And yes iv have totally kicked your ass on this debate. Youve got nothing, youve showed nothing, and your arguments as usual have been lame.

Care to repeat because I dnt remember you giving any examples.

EXCUSE MEEE!!! Argue like what??!! What u dnt want me to bring common sense to the table, just because you have none. Or dnt want me to use Dave Filonis comments about how the T-Canon show is to depict jedi powers?? What exactly do you not want me to keep bringing to these arguments. Im actually surprised people waste their time debating you. You bring nothing, ever. And clearly too arrogant to admit YOUR WRONG.

You just said it doesnt count. Make up your mind.

Which is why we say ignore them Genius.

We dnt know. Probably not that easily with simple hand gestures mid battle.

Probably. They were exhausted.

So what? Get over it.

Borborad gave a quote from Filoni regarding Lucas' opinion on the cartoons. Rather or not that is Lucas' opinion, I do not know but I am taking Filoni's word for it since he works with Lucas and Lucas has not denied it. As far as Filoni's personal opinion: It does not matter! He is not the keeper of canon. What the hell don't you get, kid?

Borborad ended the debate with that quote, although it took several posts, but I accepted it. You brought absolutely nothing. You are the one with no common sense. If you were, you would not be asking me to repeat something that you can easily go back and check yourself.

Originally posted by ares834
Chris Cerasi, "The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

Here Cerasi seems to be getting at the idea that everything in Star Wars canon, besides the movie, may not be wholly true... I guess what this means is we should throw everything out the window right? After all we don't know what’s true or not, what’s exaggerated, what actually happened. We just can't tell. As such we will simply not use it in any debates and only look to the movies.

What I’m getting at here is yes the Genndy Series is exaggerated but so is most of the EU. I mean DE depicts Palpatine destroying entire fleets, TFU has Vader move at incredible speeds, etc… So if we are going to discard the cartoon why not discard the rest of the EU as well. After all the EU tries to stay “consistent with mine (the GL Universe) as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”

Thanks Ares! That is what I have been trying to get through to DARTH POWER. I admit I have a hard time putting things in words like I want. Maybe he will understand this since it was well put. Probably not though.

*waits for DARTH POWERS superior common sense*

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Borborad gave a quote from Filoni regarding Lucas' opinion on the cartoons. Rather or not that is Lucas' opinion, I do not know but I am taking Filoni's word for it since he works with Lucas and Lucas has not denied it. As far as Filoni's personal opinion: It does not matter! He is not the keeper of canon. What the hell don't you get, kid?

Who sed it was Filoni's personal opinion?? Where do you get your crap from?? He was clearly talking about how he's been told to make the new T-Canon animation and why that is. Do you understand English. Get a translation for whatever language you do get.

Nd you didnt just call me KID?!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Borborad ended the debate with that quote, although it took several posts, but I accepted it.

What are you talking about?? You havent accepted anything.. Your still saying those feats are canon.. If youd accepted it you wuldnt still be arguing with me. You have a strange definition of acceptance. Borbarad's quit because hes provided the proof and thats the end of the debate. You guys have lost.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You brought absolutely nothing. You are the one with no common sense. If you were, you would not be asking me to repeat something that you can easily go back and check yourself.

You little **** I was the first one to say Dave Filoni said the old animation was exaggerrated.. Iv said it on other boards before many times.. But I culdnt find it where I read it. Borbarad found the quote. So that means I brought nothing?? No. It means I spoke the truth and Borbarad proved it. You are the one whose brought nothing.

Im gna go back find these "proofs" you reckon you brought and rip them apart which shuldnt be difficult, considering you are by far the dumbest (but possibly most irritating) poster on these boards.