Ganondorf runs a gauntlet.

i did in the following paragraph.

zelda has en entire world, the kind of elements it depends on for puzzles and story development etc, like music for instance, are innovative and add depth to the story. if you are gonna be summarising stories in a few sentences , you will never get a feal for what they are. youve never played zelda, so how can u say?

and did you SERIOUSLY say that okami had a LACKLUSTER storyline?!?!?!?!?!?!?! OBVIOUSLY u have never even touched the game. it is a seemless blend of nearly every major japanese myth in existance in their classical context. grandeose and non stereotypical as they get. as for CUTESY, yea, okami can be cutesy, but then it is rated teen-matire, having deaths, EXTREMELY adult jokes, near nudity, perversion, foul language and a host of other things which no KID wud be encouraged to follow. it forms a contract to the cutesy characters and graphics. so NO, it is NOT a game for children. you are aweful narrow minded and judgemental.

and how many final fantasy games have you completed????? and how can u judge 9 if you havent even PLAYED it. i dont have to PROVE ANYTHING to you. u can keep loving lok as the greatest game ever, but it isnt to the most of the world, and that is for a good reason.

LOK's plot is CHILDSPLAY compared to xenosaga/shin megami tensei/shadow hearts/silent hill. but more importantly, t never tried to be anything too deep in the first place. you just cant compare some things.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i did in the following paragraph.

zelda has en entire world, the kind of elements it depends on for puzzles and story development etc, like music for instance, are innovative and add depth to the story. if you are gonna be summarising stories in a few sentences , you will never get a feal for what they are. youve never played zelda, so how can u say?

and did you SERIOUSLY say that okami had a LACKLUSTER storyline?!?!?!?!?!?!?! OBVIOUSLY u have never even touched the game. it is a seemless blend of nearly every major japanese myth in existance in their classical context. grandeose and non stereotypical as they get. as for CUTESY, yea, okami can be cutesy, but then it is rated teen-matire, having deaths, EXTREMELY adult jokes, near nudity, perversion, foul language and a host of other things which no KID wud be encouraged to follow. it forms a contract to the cutesy characters and graphics. so NO, it is NOT a game for children. you are aweful narrow minded and judgemental.

and how many final fantasy games have you completed????? and how can u judge 9 if you havent even PLAYED it. i dont have to PROVE ANYTHING to you. u can keep loving lok as the greatest game ever, but it isnt to the most of the world, and that is for a good reason.

LOK's plot is CHILDSPLAY compared to xenosaga/shin megami tensei/shadow hearts/silent hill. but more importantly, t never tried to be anything too deep in the first place. you just cant compare some things.

I can make an evaluation of the LOZ story quite easily from the few videos shown to me, all it is about is Link trying to stop Ganon from whatever he is doing in that current story, thats the main plot base. The typical and oh so common "valiant hero vs dark tormentor"

From the description on that wiki, it sounds like it has a very weak story, the whole idea is once again, "hero vs evil spirit" I mean wtf, if thats the best they can do with all those classic Japanese mythologies then the developers must have been hard pressed.

7 and 10 and ive seen the rest from other people on this forum, their all similiar, "hero fights against some kind of evil" FF7 being one of the worst samples of this. Then stop talking if your not going to even try and make a real point. When did I say I thought it was the best game? I said it has the best story, learn to read please.

Some more baseless statements, ill swap it around and claim their all childsplay to the LOK, especially if their all on the level of your over exaggeration of Okami, as I said, your prob one of those Jap RP lovers who cant see the quality in anything else.

1. unjustified summarising. you can say the same of ico or shadow of colossus but that wont make it any more true

2. ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. oppinions dont matter unless you have played the game. it isnt a HERO vs EVIL SPIRIT, what the hell are you talking about. its a game to build and change the WORLD. influence people, AND fight dark gods who try to influence the world in their own way by meddling with people's affairs. its extremely ingenuine in its gameplay and graphics as well a its story. using both dark and light humour perfectly. but as i said, it wud be better if you played it. infact, its a game that NO1 shud live without playing. and it isnt an rpg.

ff-7 was QUITE original for its time, its elements, and its PLATFORM, can you find better rpgs on the ps1 at the time. NO, please look at things in context. and play ff-9 before u make conclusions. and that statement applies to many of the greatest games ever, your forgetting that there is more to final fantasy than just that statement.

but your swapping around has no significance since you havent played the other games and thus have no ability to comment on them. i have played both and CAN comment. see how that works? and okami isnt an rpg. neither is MGS.

any1 who says LOK storyline is on the level of xenogears/xenosaga/shin megaten/shadow hearts, is , well, WRONG.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. unjustified summarising. you can say the same of ico or shadow of colossus but that wont make it any more true

2. ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. oppinions don't matter unless you have played the game. it isnt a HERO vs EVIL SPIRIT, what the hell are you talking about. its a game to build and change the WORLD. influence people, AND fight dark gods who try to influence the world in their own way by meddling with people's affairs. its extremely ingenuine in its gameplay and graphics as well a its story. using both dark and light humour perfectly. but as i said, it wud be better if you played it. in fact, its a game that NO1 shud live without playing. and it isnt an rpg.

ff-7 was QUITE original for its time, its elements, and its PLATFORM, can you find better rpgs on the ps1 at the time. NO, please look at things in context. and play ff-9 before u make conclusions. and that statement applies to many of the greatest games ever, your forgetting that there is more to final fantasy than just that statement.

but your swapping around has no significance since you havent played the other games and thus have no ability to comment on them. i have played both and CAN comment. see how that works? and okami isnt an rpg. neither is MGS.

any1 who says LOK storyline is on the level of xenogears/xenosaga/shin megaten/shadow hearts, is , well, WRONG.

1. The hero vs antagonist is one of the oldest stories told and are common, immediately making any story with a similar tale suffer from that fact because obviously it loses some originality.

2. Of course they matter, my opinion comes from reading the basis on the Wikia page, its far more clear than your empty statements and from that wiki article the games story seems fairly simple and don't be a hypocrite, you've never played the Legacy of Kain, in fact i would be surprised if you've even played a single game from its series.

How good a game it was is neither here nor there, were talking about story lines are we not? how old or new a game is has no ties in with that.

You would not know, you've not played the Legacy of Kain, your just sympathising or are bias towards Japanese created games, those you list are from Japanese makers are they not?

1. name me games which DONT have some form of this phenomenon.

2. ive played every single legcy of kain game, and in all probability before, you even heard of em son. 🙂 dont be a ***** and moan just cause i dont love kain as much as you. and no, they dont matter at all unless youve played the game. and your own sources give these games above 90% ratings.

3. ofcourse it does, when you are talking about revolutionary games, they have to talked about in context. ff-7 was revolutionary, the first street fighter was revolutionary, mario was revolutionary. yet none of these games wud be worth shit if they had come out today.

most games from the past worth anything were from japanese developers. what does that have to do with anything???? theres plenty of good american and european games out there which are MATURE and have solid storylines, tomb raider beeing one of them, the diablo series beings another, america leads in FPS. and fyi, devil may cry is japanese. on the other hand, mario and pacman are american. these are only japanese RPGS which obviously japanes do better than americans most of the time. you were talking about MATURE storylines. and legacy of kain has nuthing in terms of maturity on xenosaga and shin megami tensei.

now please, stop commenting on games you havent played, and stop moaning about games you dont WANT other to have played because you love em like a fanatic.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. name me games which DONT have some form of this phenomenon.

2. ive played every single legcy of kain game, and in all probability before, you even heard of em son. 🙂 dont be a ***** and moan just cause i dont love kain as much as you. and no, they dont matter at all unless youve played the game. and your own sources give these games above 90% ratings.

3. ofcourse it does, when you are talking about revolutionary games, they have to talked about in context. ff-7 was revolutionary, the first street fighter was revolutionary, mario was revolutionary. yet none of these games wud be worth shit if they had come out today.

most games from the past worth anything were from japanese developers. what does that have to do with anything???? theres plenty of good american and european games out there which are MATURE and have solid storylines, tomb raider beeing one of them, the diablo series beings another, america leads in FPS. and fyi, devil may cry is japanese. on the other hand, mario and pacman are american. these are only japanese RPGS which obviously japanes do better than americans most of the time. you were talking about MATURE storylines. and legacy of kain has nuthing in terms of maturity on xenosaga and shin megami tensei.

now please, stop commenting on games you havent played, and stop moaning about games you dont WANT other to have played because you love em like a fanatic.

1. Legacy of kain? lol....

2. I dont believe you, youve had many many times in the past where you had no idea of what you were talking about and it was not just me that told you so, it was madmel, me, and several others. Even some of the most basic parts of the story were beyond you.

3. Revolutionary perhaps a game, not as a story

Stop drumming on about your Japanese game fetishes and actually make an argument for gods sake, now your just ranting like a frustrated child, "zomg Japaneze games are much better than American!", youve not played Legacy of Kain, and its likely if you have ever played a single game of the series, you never understood it at all which is prob why your butthurt that its got a good story but you were flummoxed by it.

And your still missing the point, would you compare the maturity in LoZ storyline to Diablo, Silent hill or Xenosaga? ofcourse not, because its fairly immature and has toonforce.

1. right, and the elder god is.......................... lmao. first game, kain vs his killers, then kain vs magical evil guardians. second game raziel vs evil vampire lord who betrayed him, third game kain vs evil sarafan. fourth game raziel vs evil vampires/guardians then finally self, fifth game, two initially evil character against ALL THE EVIL IN THE WORLD including a final evil GOD, ftw!!!!!

do u think its really that much more redeaming that the main character can be ruthless??? lol u think that= COMPLEXITY? sure, for a kid maybe.

2. i dont care if the most rabid fanboy on kmc doesnt beleive me or not. its the plain truth. ive posted about legacy of kain on kmc before u even showed up. pleae dont take the names of the insignificant few who go along ur crap here. theres a reason most people on kmc ridicule you or flatout dont debate with you.

3. actually, it stood out rather well as a story, unless you want to compare its story to first legacy of kain. lmao, that actually IS from the same time.

why do i have to make an argument. you made an ignorant claim and i rebutted it with an informed claim. the fact that YOU havent played these games isnt my problem, and its not my job to explain their superiority to you by stating every single aspect of them, im not trying to CONVINCE you, im merely saying ur wrong and any1 who HAS played these games will know it on first site. ive played legacy of kain since the beginning, stop bitching simply because your treated like a whore around here by virtually everybody. and sum1 who is riding fictional vampire dick 24-7 and shouting "give me more" REALLY shudnt
even be uttering the words "butthurt". ive already explained how LOK has a superior storyline to DMC, while not being superior but compareable to GOW. doesnt mean crap when your comparing it to xenosaga. oh wait, u havent played that one, so u wudnt know anything about it now wud you...............

id compare its overt maturity to okami. however, id compare its covert maturity with ico and diablo. so theres your answer.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. right, and the elder god is.......................... lmao. first game, kain vs his killers, then kain vs magical evil guardians. second game raziel vs evil vampire lord who betrayed him, third game kain vs evil sarafan. fourth game raziel vs evil vampires/guardians then finally self, fifth game, two initially evil character against ALL THE EVIL IN THE WORLD including a final evil GOD, ftw!!!!!

do u think its really that much more redeaming that the main character can be ruthless??? lol u think that= COMPLEXITY? sure, for a kid maybe.

2. i dont care if the most rabid fanboy on kmc doesnt beleive me or not. its the plain truth. ive posted about legacy of kain on kmc before u even showed up. pleae dont take the names of the insignificant few who go along ur crap here. theres a reason most people on kmc ridicule you or flatout dont debate with you.

3. actually, it stood out rather well as a story, unless you want to compare its story to first legacy of kain. lmao, that actually IS from the same time.

why do i have to make an argument. you made an ignorant claim and i rebutted it with an informed claim. the fact that YOU havent played these games isnt my problem, and its not my job to explain their superiority to you by stating every single aspect of them, im not trying to CONVINCE you, im merely saying ur wrong and any1 who HAS played these games will know it on first site. ive played legacy of kain since the beginning, stop bitching simply because your treated like a whore around here by virtually everybody. and sum1 who is riding fictional vampire dick 24-7 and shouting "give me more" REALLY shudnt
even be uttering the words "butthurt". ive already explained how LOK has a superior storyline to DMC, while not being superior but compareable to GOW. doesnt mean crap when your comparing it to xenosaga. oh wait, u havent played that one, so u wudnt know anything about it now wud you...............

id compare its overt maturity to okami. however, id compare its covert maturity with ico and diablo. so theres your answer.

1. Just a parasite, not evil at all....

You really have no idea about the LOK do you, I rest my case, you've never played any of them lol....your just puting "evil" in front of everything Kain or Raziel may be against, rather pathetic considering half of the beings are not evil at all, hell many who play the game sympathise with the Hyldan race and see them as the right, unlike most other lesser story lines (see Okami, Xenosaga, FF, LOZ) the legacy of Kain has an extremely adult and intellectual view on the storyline, this allows the players to decide themselves and the characters are presented strongly enough for their views to be evaluated by the players, thus another reason why the dynamic characters are far superior to aforementioned ideas because they convey a view that the player themselves can judge without having whats right and wrong tossed at them like they are young children, I can see how that may appeal to you but it does not make an advanced or unique story.

2. Then if you dont care go away, nobody else cares what you think either, and most people? theres no most at all, the only section I exist is this one tiny piece, your invisible imaginary buddies that apparently back you up dont exist and the only real people who disagree with me are those that cannot debate with me or have favoured characters that I debate with them against, they can never actually defeat my arguments.

3. The first legacy of Kain's story was greater than FF7 by far although unlike FF, the legacy of Kain series works as a whole. But you would not understand that having not played the games.

Damn I must have hit a nerve, its no wonder you enjoy LOZ, Okami, its maturity level is certainly quite far above yours, your like a crying infant whos pacifier has fallen from the pram. And Xenosaga, is that not the one with the queer looking robot chick? all about a boring bunch of corporations after some artifacts power, yes....massively unique....never been done before in the slightest lol...

im going to have to play the first legacy of kain after a bold statement like that

I would claim most story lines are greater than FF7, its weak sauce compared to stories in many games imo, perhaps its just not my taste but its one of those "evil company does X, company creation hates company so it does B etc etc" just with a few slight differences, the story itself is quite basic and lackluster and its main stars are a queer looking shemale with a long sword who despite apparent powers being so great gets defeated by the games other great star, a saddened emo who constantly chases after the former.

same can be said about kain who is defeat by raziel..

not really, because Kain does not want to fight or even harm Raziel, he wants to use him, wheras Cloud is always nothing more than Sephiroths enemy, Sephiroth never has any master plan behind Cloud or any use for him, merely taunts him, which is always his downfall.

Originally posted by Burning thought
there are likely many other times than that

I didn't think your debating could get any worse BT.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sephiroth never has any master plan behind Cloud or any use for him

And you're wrong by the way.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you don't actually know? Yet you claim it is full of it?

I didn't think your debating could get any worse BT.

Well when a game whos nature seems to be bent towards actions such as that Goron its more likely than not that I am correct. Why would there only be one toon force act? not that I need another....

Dont even mention bad debating cretin, you have no grounds of debating nor do you have any real arguments in here, I am almost tired of owning you, want me to own you again now? All I have to do is gather a few things from this thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You seem pretty sure about this considering you never played the game.

And you're wrong by the way.

Explain? Sephiroth has no use for Cloud. Cloud is merely an ego trip for Sephiroth, problem is Sephiroths ego is stronger than he is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well when a game whos nature seems to be bent towards actions such as that Goron its more likely than not that I am correct. Why would there only be one toon force act? not that I need another....

Dont even mention bad debating cretin, you have no grounds of debating nor do you have any real arguments in here, I am almost tired of owning you, want me to own you again now? All I have to do is gather a few things from this thread.

Explain? Sephiroth has no use for Cloud. Cloud is merely an ego trip for Sephiroth, problem is Sephiroths ego is stronger than he is.

You can no more own me than you could your jailbait cousin.

2. And you have proof for this claim?

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. That is the sole Toonforce act in Zelda. And yes you do. Having one act of Toonforce which did not even directly involve Link does not discredit all of Link's feats you see as inconsistant. And the lifting of the granite is not inconsistant, he gained the ability to do it like five minutes before fighting Ganondorf.

You can no more own me than you could your jailbait cousin.

2. And you have proof for this claim?

1. I dont know that, and considering ive not played LOZ I will not be convinced by you saying so. Ofcourse it discredits them, it discredits them because first and foremost Link is pretty much human, so the excistence of toonforce in the game points out the fact that feats beyond his canon structure and limit especially in gameplay are automatically toonforce, the granite thing was incosistent with what link is, having 1000+ ton strength is not realistic considering he would not need a sword at all.

I could own you like your dad owned your mother with his heavy fists 😉 , and ill do it now:

Originally posted by NemeBro

Although thinking about it, without his immunity, God Kratos may very well defeat him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
By turning him into a harmless, bodiless soul.

Or just sealing him in another dimension.

Your pick.

This just shows your lack of precision when you blunder into a thread, as well as your huge bias and how most of your claims are likely thus, just a lot of frequent blabberings. I mean jesus on the same page, the very first page you claim Ganon gets to Kiljaeden, then you claim Kratos (wtf, how?) defeats ganon despite him apprently being able to turn Sephiroth into a bodiless soul or sealing him away, I mean its obvious we all know you like Kratos but your bias makes you blind which is why you fail in most threads.

2. I did not make a claim, I made a statement, There is no indication in the game where Sephiroth claims he will use Cloud as part of his master plans the way Kain uses Raziel. The burdon of proof is to provide that Cloud is indeed used.

sephiroth used cloud to get the huge materia in disc 2. in fact he takes control of cloud several times to keep the heroes at bay.

The black materia? thats not part of a master plan though, not like Kain, Kain is using Raziel to change his destiny throughout the entire game. The black materia itself was important but Clouds use was a minor one, you cannot claim Clouds use there as Sephiroths reason for holding back in all the battles he had, including in AC can you?

huge materia has a different purpose to summon meteor, i think, havent played the game in years. but i know its called huge materia. summoning meteor was the master plan.