Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yes you can still blame God, did God give Noah some divine proof that he was talking with God? How is the common man supposed to know Noah is not some crazed nut job who says that he talks to God out of all the others? Did Noah show some proof that the world was going to flood? Would you believe some person that you have never meet that says the world is coming to and end without some type of proof? How were the people on the other side of the world supposed to hear Noah's warning?Also the Book of Enoch is not part of the official cannon so as far as the Bible is concerned this didn't happen.
As for people on the other side of the world... how do you know that they DIDN'T get a warning? Just because the person writing it didn't know about the Indians doesn't mean they weren't taken care of. For all we know there could have been a virtual fleet of arcs filled with Indians, it's just that God didn't tell Noah about them because he knew it'd never be an issue since they wouldn't be hanging out.
I don't take the Bible as the end all be all of knowledge on God, the Book of Enoch seems to fit in quite nicely and fill some unexplained holes. But I don't take ANY of it at face value truth be told, I'm not so much promoting the stories as addressing the arguements that try to blame everything on God rather than a poor use of free will.
Originally posted by darthgooberYou seem to make a lot of "assumptions". First how would everyone see this "amazing Ark" if they never went to where he was building it, people didn't have the ease of knowledge that we do now so they would have to have heard it from word of mouth of people that have seen it or traveled there themselves. The Bible says nothing of any other Ark, not even a hint of it and even in all the other non-cannon books as well.
Of course I wouldn't believe someone who said that God was about to destroy the world, he already promised not to do that anymore 😉 . This wasn't a period where outlandish things were out of the ordinary like it is now, if nothing else they should have guessed that there was something to what he was saying when the animals started lining up two by two. Their suspicions should also have been aroused by the fact that a drunk somehow managed to design and create an arc of that size and quality...As for people on the other side of the world... how do you know that they DIDN'T get a warning? Just because the person writing it didn't know about the Indians doesn't mean they weren't taken care of. For all we know there could have been a virtual fleet of arcs filled with Indians, it's just that God didn't tell Noah about them because he knew it'd never be an issue since they wouldn't be hanging out.
I don't take the Bible as the end all be all of knowledge on God, the Book of Enoch seems to fit in quite nicely and fill some unexplained holes. But I don't take ANY of it at face value truth be told, I'm not so much promoting the stories as addressing the arguements that try to blame everything on God rather than a poor use of free will.
If there were a virtual fleet of Arks around the world then the likelihood that we would have found some evidence of their construction or writings of their construction would be evident.
Having the animals show up two-by-two wouldn't be that noticeable since they wouldn't have all arrived at once since it would have taken them years if not decades to get their and how the land animals got over the water would have been another issue all together.
The book of Enoch may "fill" some holes but that is like saying that you have a bucket with 500 holes and you filled 10 of them.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
You seem to make a lot of "assumptions". First how would everyone see this "amazing Ark" if they never went to where he was building it, people didn't have the ease of knowledge that we do now so they would have to have heard it from word of mouth of people that have seen it or traveled there themselves. The Bible says nothing of any other Ark, not even a hint of it and even in all the other non-cannon books as well.If there were a virtual fleet of Arks around the world then the likelihood that we would have found some evidence of their construction or writings of their construction would be evident.
Having the animals show up two-by-two wouldn't be that noticeable since they wouldn't have all arrived at once since it would have taken them years if not decades to get their and how the land animals got over the water would have been another issue all together.
The book of Enoch may "fill" some holes but that is like saying that you have a bucket with 500 holes and you filled 10 of them.
And unless I'm mistaken, it took years for Noah to build the arc and the animals were showing up pretty much the entire time, so yeah it would have been noticeable. So noticeable in fact, that people should have taken what Noah was saying into serious consideration....
Any bucket that's over 2,000 years old is going to be full of holes it doesn't mean that the bucket didn't hold water when it was made 😉 . From the sound of it you don't think that ANY of it's true, so I don't know why you have a problem with me using the Book of Enoch.
Re: God exists and is a terrible and hateful being, or God does not exist.
Originally posted by KidRock
I see those as being the only 2 options. Which one is true, I don't know. But I definitley know that with the world we live in it's impossible for God to be a good, merciful and caring entity.
So,in other words...., God is hateful because humanity chooses hate over love? If god does exist he obviously gave humanity the gift of free will.
Originally posted by darthgooberI could go on and on about how many flaws are in the Bible and I personally don't care if you use the Book of Enoch or don't. Personally I think that most of the books that were not in the official cannon should have been but then again I'm Atheist.
Who cares if the Bible mentioned any other arc? What happened on the other side of the world wasn't really important to Noah and company so why mention it? I'm not saying that there WAS more arc's, I'm saying that the Bible's omission of details concerning people from half way around the world from the setting during a period when everyone was writing on parchment and clay tablets doesn't mean that God necessarily threw everybody to the wolves. They could have had their own warnings and boats, but that wasn't important to the story of Noah. See I'm not the one making assumptions, you are. You assume that since the Bible didn't say how the people on the other side of the planet might have been warned by God or possibly survived the flood that it means that those people had to have died if the story is true at all, I'm a lot more open minded than that though. Just because the author left out details that were inconsequential to the primary characters doesn't mean that only the primary characters survived. The Bible is notorious for omitting details that aren't vital to the story(like where Cain and Seth's wives came from or what Jesus did between the ages of 12 and 30) so I don't see why this story should be any different.And unless I'm mistaken, it took years for Noah to build the arc and the animals were showing up pretty much the entire time, so yeah it would have been noticeable. So noticeable in fact, that people should have taken what Noah was saying into serious consideration....
Any bucket that's over 2,000 years old is going to be full of holes it doesn't mean that the bucket didn't hold water when it was made 😉 . From the sound of it you don't think that ANY of it's true, so I don't know why you have a problem with me using the Book of Enoch.
As for the animals no it wouldn't have been obvious unless you were there and saw them I could be in Arizona and wouldn't notice millions of animals arriving in New York.
The problem is how you see the book written, if it was written by man then yes they wouldn't have a clue as to what was happening in the next country much less across the world but the Bible is supposed to be the inspired word of God and God should know what is going on in his creation. After all there are many passages in the Bible that talk about things outside of the planet so how would a person on the Earth know about this. There are so many passages in the Bible talking about things that are "inconsequential" and they get put in and others are not.
The bucket still has holes even 2,000 years ago but people were to stupid to know what a hole was. As for it being true there could have been a flood and a guy named Noah that made a boat and took some local animals on it but a world wide flood that wiped out all life "not pure" life on the planet and then was repopulated to the current state from just his family, no I do not think that is true in any way shape or form.
If you feel the Bible is a bunch of stories to teach you the "meaning of life" then great and what you say can stand. However if you believe that the events in the Bible actually took place as they were written is where there is issues.
Originally posted by Da PittmanIf you feel the Bible is a bunch of stories to teach you the "meaning of life" then great and what you say can stand. However if you believe that the events in the Bible actually took place as they were written is where there is issues.
Issues for whom? 😂 I think people read the Bible with a literal filter. I believe certain events happened but were most likely exaggerated when interpreted by man. I'm sure it has also been mistranslated and manipulated as well. i still believe in science as much as i believe in God. A square isn't circular because you say so...,so, what are my issues?
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNxThat is saying a lot without saying anything.
Issues for whom? 😂 I think people read the Bible with a literal filter. I believe certain events happened but were most likely exaggerated when interpreted by man. I'm sure it has also been mistranslated and manipulated as well. i still believe in science as much as i believe in God. A square isn't circular because you say so...,so, what are my issues?
If you believe that Noah built this giant Ark that could hold, feed and keep safe 2 of every pure land animal on Earth for the entire duration of the flood and that land animals from places like Australia was able to walk across the water to get to the Ark then you have issues.
So you believe in some science and some God?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I could go on and on about how many flaws are in the Bible and I personally don't care if you use the Book of Enoch or don't. Personally I think that most of the books that were not in the official cannon should have been but then again I'm Atheist.As for the animals no it wouldn't have been obvious unless you were there and saw them I could be in Arizona and wouldn't notice millions of animals arriving in New York.
The problem is how you see the book written, if it was written by man then yes they wouldn't have a clue as to what was happening in the next country much less across the world but the Bible is supposed to be the inspired word of God and God should know what is going on in his creation. After all there are many passages in the Bible that talk about things outside of the planet so how would a person on the Earth know about this. There are so many passages in the Bible talking about things that are "inconsequential" and they get put in and others are not.
The bucket still has holes even 2,000 years ago but people were to stupid to know what a hole was. As for it being true there could have been a flood and a guy named Noah that made a boat and took some local animals on it but a world wide flood that wiped out all life "not pure" life on the planet and then was repopulated to the current state from just his family, no I do not think that is true in any way shape or form.
If you feel the Bible is a bunch of stories to teach you the "meaning of life" then great and what you say can stand. However if you believe that the events in the Bible actually took place as they were written is where there is issues.
You know I dont believe in the Bible but I think he has a point. The story was concerned with Noah and the people in his community therefore its not going to mention whats happening on the other side of the world. There are lots of things in the Bible that are worth bitching about that doesnt seem one of them.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneThat is the point, is it a story or is it real. If it is a story to teach then cool, if it is a real event then it is BS.
You know I dont believe in the Bible but I think he has a point. The story was concerned with Noah and the people in his community therefore its not going to mention whats happening on the other side of the world. There are lots of things in the Bible that are worth bitching about that doesnt seem one of them.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonThat is the issue that the story in the Bible is not true, even if it is based on some guy that made a boat and took a few animals on it. The story is elaborated to the point of being ridiculous, if you think that they story of Noah is real as the Bible says so then these are the questions that must be asked. I have talked to many people that think the story of Noah is true as the Bible says.
But there is good evidence that the story is based on a real event. Of course the real event was quite different then what is now in the bible.
The Bible doesn't say that it is a local flood but a world wide flood and that Noah took two of every animal not some. Some other things that get skipped over is that God said to take 7 pairs of the clean animals and one pair of the unclean including birds (7 pairs) as the Bible is written.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
That is the issue that the story in the Bible is not true, even if it is based on some guy that made a boat and took a few animals on it. The story is elaborated to the point of being ridiculous, if you think that they story of Noah is real as the Bible says so then these are the questions that must be asked. I have talked to many people that think the story of Noah is true as the Bible says.The Bible doesn't say that it is a local flood but a world wide flood and that Noah took two of every animal not some. Some other things that get skipped over is that God said to take 7 pairs of the clean animals and one pair of the unclean including birds (7 pairs) as the Bible is written.
Are you asking me? 😆 I'm surprised and shock to think that there is even %1 truth in the story.
Some other things that I find interesting is amphibians, how are some of these animals supposed to survive on a world flooded and devoid of land or if the seas flooded then there would be no fresh water which would kill off almost all fresh water life. These things were not taken on the Ark so why did only the lucky few of the land and air animals survive and all of the salt water life get to live and all the fresh water creatures die? Yes there are some fresh water fish that can survive but that is a very small minority.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Some other things that I find interesting is amphibians, how are some of these animals supposed to survive on a world flooded and devoid of land or if the seas flooded then there would be no fresh water which would kill off almost all fresh water life. These things were not taken on the Ark so why did only the lucky few of the land and air animals survive and all of the salt water life get to live and all the fresh water creatures die? Yes there are some fresh water fish that can survive but that is a very small minority.
With an all powerful (fictional) god, anything is possible. 😉