Alex Mercer vs Dante

"It's an effect to illustrate that Dante is moving so fast that objects near appear to be standing still"

Alastor, billiard scene, rain scene, Vergil vs Abyss', Vergil catching bullets, Pandora cutscene.. think theres another one or two but 6 is enough to prove the point.

Originally posted by Kuja9001
that same writer was a ex-capcom guy, plus the novel contradicts things.

In the case of contradictions the game versions events take priority.

Again, how is Alastor being stated to give one lightning speed not true?

Next thing I'm gonna hear is that the lightning Cloud Strife dogded is fake lightning because It's look is different, even though the canon says It's real lightning and looks like such in all other media.

Originally posted by BloodRain
^👆

Dante was only serious twice in that game: "Aw, Credo's dead" and "Nero, you alive bro?"...thats it. The rest of the games a mere distraction.

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"the same as most of other DMC weapon acquire scenes, just him showing off skills with a weapon.(...) That happens for Cerberus, the Sparda sword, Agni and Rudra, reven etc."

Its true. With Cerberus he's showing its nunchaku features and skills as its described, Sparda's transformation feature as described, Agni & Rudra's flame&air elements as described and Nevan's Scyth moves as its described. Just like showing Ifrit's hellfire as described and Alastor's speed increase as described.

Every single demonstrations is based on in-game moves and/or the description of the weapon. Alastor is no different from the others by showing its described ability. Stasis/Area float ability is not stated in its movepool or description so its not the reason for it. That'd be inventing an ability for him.

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You just claimed that Jester is aim dodging then went to say that he doesnt see the bullet nor is he trying to dodge, contradicting what you said. Address it.

There's no time frame so your point is void. And wheres the stasis proof? Statements and calcs back me up, the only back up you have is a theory you cant prove, right?

If the fight before Jester made them weak so did this fight, as shown. Only difference being that Vergil > Dante back then shown by the cutscene of Dante being more worn out then Vergil and needing his sword to stand up.
No time frame, gameplay cutscene proves he was more out of it than Vergil. Wrong, Nero even admits that Dante was playing with him at their second fight. And wrong, as stated by the novel his DT can flash on when in the presence of a blood related DT. More proof:

Lol its not even 1 until you can get actually prove you're right. I'll gladly post the handful of 18 feats (saw a new one) with explanations and reasons to boot if you can even get a single negative point. So far your Jester and Vergil points are dismissed for Dante being worn out, with your Nero point being dismissed by Nero's and Hiroyuki's quotes. Besides ignoring statements there are no negative points.

Your arguments are based around "inventing abilities" for Dante, nothing is able to gauge the speed in the scene, its as simple as that.

No I made two counter arguments, one where Jester is aim dodging but tbh Dante hardly seems to be aiming sometines, just fireing in the general direction and a second counter where hes not reacting to anything, which means speed is irrelevent.

Statements dont, calcs dont because you made the calcs up on the fly, they dont aid you at all. Physics back me up, basic physics where friction, air pressure, movement from speed etc are relevent in speed but not present here. As for the stasis, its a supernatural power we can see, if you take out the impossibility of it being a speed showing based on what I just said, the power to stop things in the air is not unheard of in fiction and is pretty much what were seeing.

Dante used his sword to get up, nothing to do with "needing" although that does not take care of the fact his reactions are so slow, your making it sound like hes beaten and bloody and can hardly move, your reactions do not dispear just because your the slightest bit tired. This also does not counter the fact Vergil was moving at pretty much human speed at that point. If your saying Dante having a few minutes of fighting is enough to put him below human levels then hes screwed against not only Mercer but most in Games vs.

No, not at all. Dante actually says he underestimated him in that fight, while its true he toys with him early on and in their second encounter Dante still could not react or counter Neros sword strike.

Originally posted by The Scenario
It's an effect to illustrate that Dante is moving so fast that objects near appear to be standing still, is it really this hard to grasp? What is your evidence that Alastor is able to stop objects, given it's powerset? Again, Alastor makes Dante faster, it has never had any ability to stop objects, so it is much more likely that Dante is simply moving faster, just like what Alastor is known to do. Try to think about consistency; why would an object that make its user faster have the magical ability to stop falling objects, which is never used again? On the other hand, it is shown to make Dante faster even after this, so logically the "show off" prtion of this would Alastor's main ability, which is...? Speed.

Samus shows the same effect, an object is moving slower in order to make her appear faster. It's not stopped, obviously, but it's the same effect.

So you know that the weapon makes Dante faster, you know it's stated to make Dante faster, you know the purpose of the cutscene is to show the ability of the weapon (i.e: make Dante faster) , and you still think it's a stasis field? No, you're incorrect about there not being an indication of speed. The indication is the slowdown effect, you know this. Slowing down or stopping other objects is a common tactic to make things appear fast, see again the Samus example. We have a description stating speed, we have an indication of speed, you have nothing but an outright guess that has no basis in any part of the scene.

Further, you don't seem to know what the word "hypocrite" means. I suggest you stop using it as an automatic "you're wrong" buzzword.

Over and over again you ignore the physics behind speed and the facts that need to be true for you to be right, your just guessing blindly now and agreeing with BR, youve not even got an argument for this, your just asking increduously as if that makes me feel guilty for doubting you, maybe its my turn to do so. I mean. do you really belive! that 10k mph or meters per second creates zero air pressure or have no effect on a light sword or tiny piecies of glass inches away? I mean shit a Jet only creates mach 1 or mach 2 and it creates an enormous amount of air pressure.

Cut out the hyperbole statement which many things inlcuding my example from LoK have and you are left with your claim of an "indication" which is not true at all, its just you guessing your opinion is fact again like you enjoy doing and ignoring the lack of physics in the scene displaying any speed at all, theres like no air friction at all from Dantes movements or on his clothing. Whats funny is his coat and hair actually move in the game so claiming the "graphics are old" card does not cover this.

Originally posted by BloodRain
"It's an effect to illustrate that Dante is moving so fast that objects near appear to be standing still"

Alastor, billiard scene, rain scene, Vergil vs Abyss', Vergil catching bullets, Pandora cutscene.. think theres another one or two but 6 is enough to prove the point.

Alastor has been disproven, billiard is a slow down so we can see whats going on, its not something a human could not do assuming they got a shot on a billiard ball as for the rain scene, we know the outcome and that none of those are even strikes tbh, just swinging swords. I can swing swords around, doesnt mean I can effectively react and fight at the speed I can move the sword. Most of your claim consists of slow down scenes where Dante does things that may either not be relevent to reaction or speed at all or is something he never achived anything with yet you belive you can use the same feat as part of a complicated manouver in everything Dante does in a vs, logic out the window! 😄

Originally posted by Enfathiel
Again, how is Alastor being stated to give one lightning speed not true?

Next thing I'm gonna hear is that the lightning Cloud Strife dogded is fake lightning because It's look is different, even though the canon says It's real lightning and looks like such in all other media.

Because its a statement that is common in games. "lightning speed", "quick as lightning", hyperbole or exaggeration until shown otherwise. Unlike my large knowledge on Dante, I dont know much on Cloud so I cant comment on that.

Because its a statement that is common in games. "lightning speed", "quick as lightning", hyperbole or exaggeration until shown otherwise. Unlike my large knowledge on Dante, I dont know much on Cloud so I cant comment on that.

That's understandable, but aren't you overanalyzing this?

I can't remember in what other game such a thing has been done. Furthermore It's not spoken as either a smilie or a metaphor(move as fast or like lightning), It just says It gives one lightning speed and seems to use actual lightning to amp speed, not simply a statement when Dante was shown to perform a speed feat right after quiring the blade.

I yet to see that as a speed feat, expain to me why Dantes hair and coat do not rustle or why his sword does not build heat, hell even his hands or clothing should if moving at thousands times the speed of a typical guy create some variance of heat. The piecies of glass are also inches away from him, if he was creating friction from moving at such speed, those piecies should be shattering or falling apart.

My suggestion is that the magic of the blade froze them in the air, more alike to a short time stop or something which has been in the games many times. Further, if Dante could move at lightning speed literally he would show it more often, "lightning speed" as a statement is used too often in fiction. The description may just be a descriptive way of saying Dante moves faster than without the sword, which is also supported in the gameplay, ive yet to see Dante blitz anyone at thousands of mters a second or cover miles in seconds.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I yet to see that as a speed feat, expain to me why Dantes hair and coat do not rustle or why his sword does not build heat, hell even his hands or clothing should if moving at thousands times the speed of a typical guy create some variance of heat. The piecies of glass are also inches away from him, if he was creating friction from moving at such speed, those piecies should be shattering or falling apart.

My suggestion is that the magic of the blade froze them in the air, more alike to a short time stop or something which has been in the games many times. Further, if Dante could move at lightning speed literally he would show it more often, "lightning speed" as a statement is used too often in fiction. The description may just be a descriptive way of saying Dante moves faster than without the sword, which is also supported in the gameplay, ive yet to see Dante blitz anyone at thousands of mters a second or cover miles in seconds.

You have a very good point.

Give me a while to concot a response to this. Promise I'll get back to you.

Will get back to this........ eventually, but wanna point out something: That "his hair and coat didnt move and sword didnt catch on fire" is seven different colour of BS which is interesting as I didnt know it varied that much in colour.

First you didnt really tell Scene what your proof was or how the effect is six times consistant to the games.
Second is your notion that fiction writers are always thinking physics. Theyre not. If they were then every single hypersonic being in games, manga/anime, tv/movies, book/comics etc would be burning up constantly and wrecking things with powerful air distortions at their speeds.
Third is this hair and coat business. DMC3 intro, hypersonic movement and their coats and hair are moving as if it were normal. DMC3 Vergil scene, hypersonic movements yet once again his coat and sword tassle moves as if at normal speeds. Smallville, like with the DMC rain scene there is hypersonic movements yet their hair and clothes all move as if normal. [Add other scenes here] What does this mean? Well either these characters are moving at hypersonic speeds and the devs didnt put 100% motion accuracy into the scene ORRR these character can all create stasis fields or just have the power to slow everything down to make them appear hypersonic... ooo I so do wonder...

Aint read the reply to me yet but I do hope its full to the brim with you showing concrete evidence that this 'useless, evidentless magical floating power' is an official power of Alastor (and Dante, Vergil, Clark and Creepy-lil-girl-whose-name-I-cant-remember) and not something you pull out of your ass as something you want it to be. And check out that rainbow BS while your there.. cos that aint natural.

THats your problem, your making up the "hypersonic movements", not the developers. So you automatically assume your word is fact, I just proved you wrong because it has no notations of speed. If you want to pull out the "developers are not alway thinking physics card", then perhaps they took that card out when they stopped glass or rain falling, just because it amused them. You like to pick and choose factors of science you want to use every time you bring a feat to the table, obviously in your unbias way choosing the ones that fit and suit you best.

Well they dont have to be moving at speeds at all, concerning DMC, he does shit that makes no sense quite often. Physics often gets left out of the game in general, you cant bring it in and out when it suits you though, youve either got physics or lack therof, or you dont. The fact DMC has shown heat from friction, air pressure etc also disproves any whine about how the devs dont somehow understand what these forces are....you cant assume their monkeys, I would wager their far more clever than that if not by a small margin.

When you can find me Dante burning up or creating air pressure (temigiru tower fall/run?) then you can claim for this context him moving at high speed, until then blindly assuming some physics over others then playing the "well developers dont always know physics lolz! but they do when its useful to me!!" card is going to just roll my eyes, probably in slow motion as glass falls behind me....also while I chuckle at how your claiming hypersonic, showing a video which is disproven by my argument as wrong again. Your bias and fairly hollow word vs physics ftw.

As it stands, Enfathiel is being the more logical of my opposition and hes new. The guy does not get all angry and start complaining about how wrong something may be, he just disproves or proves and accepts arguments.

All four speed feats listed on this page are calced to be hypersonic and all appear the same therefore must have the same reason: Speed or stasis field. And as Vergil can't create a stasis field out of nothing its the former.

"Theyre not moving fast because its DMC physics" <-Great argument 👆

I like it when you play the 'I know all the physics' card when without knowing of it; If you knew about friction heat then youd know that an object with a small surface area achieving speed for brief moments and on a curvaceous path wont achieve the same results as constant, linear one. The Vergil and Rain scene falls in this category. Also you would know that for the small surface blade to actually show visual friction heat technically makes it beyond Ma15 meaning the DMC3 feats are safe either way, all of this having little to do with Alastor as DMC1 was created nearly 6 years prior to DMC3 and with a different team working on it.

Just so I get this right: Your whole counter argument is coat movements (made useless by 5 similar scenes) and friction heat (made useless by physics, aerodynamics and different DMC devs), correct?

Here's a thought: How about less attempted flirts with the new guy and more getting proof of your magic floating/stasis field AND proof of how they magically make things float around them without Alastor. Or are you going to say "Cos I said so" for several pages again? If you have no proof of your claims(which you clearly dont) youre basically arguing for the sake of arguing and trolling. Evidence, lets go.

Originally posted by BloodRain
All four speed feats listed on this page are calced to be hypersonic and all appear the same therefore must have the same reason: Speed or stasis field. And as Vergil can't create a stasis field out of nothing its the former.

"Theyre not moving fast because its DMC physics" <-Great argument 👆

I like it when you play the 'I know all the physics' card when without knowing of it; If you knew about friction heat then youd know that an object with a small surface area achieving speed for brief moments and on a curvaceous path wont achieve the same results as constant, linear one. The Vergil and Rain scene falls in this category. Also you would know that for the small surface blade to actually show visual friction heat technically makes it beyond Ma15 meaning the DMC3 feats are safe either way, all of this having little to do with Alastor as DMC1 was created nearly 6 years prior to DMC3 and with a different team working on it.

Just so I get this right: Your whole counter argument is coat movements (made useless by 5 similar scenes) and friction heat (made useless by physics, aerodynamics and different DMC devs), correct?

Here's a thought: How about less attempted flirts with the new guy and more getting proof of your magic floating/stasis field [b]AND proof of how they magically make things float around them without Alastor. Or are you going to say "Cos I said so" for several pages again? If you have no proof of your claims(which you clearly dont) youre basically arguing for the sake of arguing and trolling. Evidence, lets go. [/B]

Calced by whom 🙂 ? you?

Not sure if that was my argument, although it was your argument that the devs could pick and choose to forget certain forces, in this case it seems they chose gravity didnt they? or do you take that "argument" if thats what you call it back?

This is not a small surface area, this is a human being if your talking about swords then only Vergils sword has a small surface area, Dantes is a huge piece of metal. Your talking BS generally here, its like you dont have a counter so your just trying to troll me.

5 similiar scenes do not make anything useless apart from your belief their moving at the speeds you belive, as for DMC devs, again that card can be played on everything in DMC if thats what you want.

How about less blind claims of speed and laughable jibs of "its been calced!" and more looking into the actual facts which are few physical movements or connections to speed and a lack of many major perceptions of speed that I have listed.

😆 hypocrite, this can all be listed back to you. My evidence is solid, the video shows the objects freezing, e.g. alike to a stasis field. Your counter was that its because hes moving so fast, but the counter to that is that this is impossible because his legit coat, hair and air friction speeds are not there to back you up, their more aligned to my argument therefore move on and stop trolling with your collapsed argument.

Dantes max speed, Mach 1 down Temigiru tower, Dantes reaction speed peak human, or after a few minutes of fighting human.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Over and over again you ignore the physics behind speed and the facts that need to be true for you to be right, your just guessing blindly now and agreeing with BR, youve not even got an argument for this, your just asking increduously as if that makes me feel guilty for doubting you, maybe its my turn to do so. I mean. do you really belive! that 10k mph or meters per second creates zero air pressure or have no effect on a light sword or tiny piecies of glass inches away? I mean shit a Jet only creates mach 1 or mach 2 and it creates an enormous amount of air pressure.

Jeez, all you're doing is flaming; you should probably stop that. No, I'm not ignoring the physics or even claiming that I know how fast Dante is going. I never said he was going mach speeds, you just seem to be projecting that on me. No, what I'm doing is stating that nearby object slowing down is an effect that Devil
May Cry uses multiple times to show off speed. It is not an effect used to show off stasis fields. So no, I don't believe that 10,000 miles per hour creates zero air pressure, I believe that Alastor's ability is speed, an an effect that shows speed is consistent with that. Stasis fields is just stupid.

Cut out the hyperbole statement which many things inlcuding my example from LoK have and you are left with your claim of an "indication" which is not true at all, its just you guessing your opinion is fact again like you enjoy doing and ignoring the lack of physics in the scene displaying any speed at all, theres like no air friction at all from Dantes movements or on his clothing. Whats funny is his coat and hair actually move in the game so claiming the "graphics are old" card does not cover this.

Again, you're missing the point of the statement. "Lightning speed" may not be accurate, but if you read between the lines even a little bit, you will realize that I am not claiming that Dante moves a quickly as lightning does. Let's go with your example, Kain's wolf form let's him "move like lightning" or something. Sure, hyperbole, but what you missed is that wolf form is still faster than humanoid Kain. The description says it makes him move faster, and it does. Where is the description that states "Alastor makes a stasis field that slows nearby objects" ? All I'm saying is that your stasis field guess is unfounded and denies all canon if favor of a ridiculous interpretation that you favor because it supports you. Nothing more, nothing less.

Question: Assuming this is a stasis field, what changes? Pretty much any opponent Dante fights would be subject to this field and slowed down/stopped, so Dante gets the advantage of speed no matter what. You are not actually taking away Dante's advantage, do you realize this?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Jeez, all you're doing is flaming; you should probably stop that. No, I'm not ignoring the physics or even claiming that I know how fast Dante is going. I never said he was going mach speeds, you just seem to be projecting that on me. No, what I'm doing is stating that nearby object slowing down is an effect that Devil
May Cry uses multiple times to show off speed. It is not an effect used to show off stasis fields. So no, I don't believe that 10,000 miles per hour creates zero air pressure, I believe that Alastor's ability is speed, an an effect that shows speed is consistent with that. Stasis fields is just stupid.

Again, you're missing the point of the statement. "Lightning speed" may not be accurate, but if you read between the lines even a little bit, you will realize that [b]I am not claiming that Dante moves a quickly as lightning does. Let's go with your example, Kain's wolf form let's him "move like lightning" or something. Sure, hyperbole, but what you missed is that wolf form is still faster than humanoid Kain. The description says it makes him move faster, and it does. Where is the description that states "Alastor makes a stasis field that slows nearby objects" ? All I'm saying is that your stasis field guess is unfounded and denies all canon if favor of a ridiculous interpretation that you favor because it supports you. Nothing more, nothing less.

Question: Assuming this is a stasis field, what changes? Pretty much any opponent Dante fights would be subject to this field and slowed down/stopped, so Dante gets the advantage of speed no matter what. You are not actually taking away Dante's advantage, do you realize this? [/B]

Wut? you dont even know what flaming is it seems, again hypocritical, sarcasm, claiming your guessing or ignorant to the facts is not flaming. Show me the consistency then, show me the numerous ocasions where it uses it to show speed? and on top of that, why does several ocasions mean anything when I have disproven this one already? Stasis fields are the only idea I can come up with at the moment that does not suppose movement speed that creates pressures to knock back glass and such.

Yes so, and I agree Dantes faster with Alastor in hand, I just dont agree this scene really shows that, the glass hardly moving or seeming to stop has no connection to speed. Its not a guess, its an opinion on what I am looking at after I take away what its not which is what BR said, speed enough to make falling glass look static. If your argument is the same then your making the same error as BR, if your argument is that the Devs are just "showing speed increase" but the amount is irrelevent to your argument then I kinda agree.

Well no because Alastor does not do what it did in this video whenever he uses it. It does it once when he picks it up, otherwise it does little more than allow him to fly as a devil when equped and move a little quicker. Everything that happened in this cutscene has been shown once and only once and the power itself seems a one time cirumstance. e.g. Alastors power fusing into Dante.

wow.. this is alot of war..
O_o. im going to say this. you CANNOT use virgil as a "dante got hit by virgil, and he was moving slow" basis. virgil is dantes TWIN. and has similar, if not exactly the same powers. just different beliefs, and style.
and dante being weakened? yeah.. battling his twin twice.. and the girl. and an entire giant tower of demons and bosses.

and. dante CAN move at super sonic speeds. in dmc3, his awakening shows off him running down the tower, throwing his sword, shooting his sword, and catching up to it, as the blade itself is breaking the sound barrier, and heating up with the sheer friction of it. his hand it also burning, too. O_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oOoqPaQBmo
like that.
the intro for dmc3 has dante and virgil fighting in the rain, their strikes and swings are actually creating a dome surrounding them thats keeping the water from hitting them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVtVkmTQbxY
like that.

virgil can draw, strike multiple times, and sheathe his sword before you can see the movement with your eye. its called the judgement cut.

jester works out a massive plan to set the two brothers against each-other to weaken both. thats how he got the hit in. and he only got two in. then he was promptly served his own ass on a platter back to him after he obtained their fathers power.

and the alastor clip, thats just him moving fast. i dunno where all this stasis field stuff came from. stop it. its silly.

and as far as his speed? he can slow down time.. O_o.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItTtRm6sZks
see?
also.. he can move so fast, its as if he teleports..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhwUWTRTlJQ
see? hes fast. very fast. so is virgil. virgil can move so fast, he practically teleports, too.
i would like to point out that in that vid. its dante must die mode, and that he NEVER GOT HIT.

👆

Originally posted by Burning thought
Wut? you dont even know what flaming is it seems, again hypocritical, sarcasm, claiming your guessing or ignorant to the facts is not flaming. Show me the consistency then, show me the numerous ocasions where it uses it to show speed? and on top of that, why does several ocasions mean anything when I have disproven this one already? Stasis fields are the only idea I can come up with at the moment that does not suppose movement speed that creates pressures to knock back glass and such.

But blatantly false accusations of such are flaming. BloodRain already listed 6 examples for you, I see no reason to show them again, especially since youtube is screwing up for me right now. In any case, stasis fields are not a suitable explanation, they are a guess.

Yes so, and I agree Dantes faster with Alastor in hand, I just dont agree this scene really shows that, the glass hardly moving or seeming to stop has no connection to speed. Its not a guess, its an opinion on what I am looking at after I take away what its not which is what BR said, speed enough to make falling glass look static. If your argument is the same then your making the same error as BR, if your argument is that the Devs are just "showing speed increase" but the amount is irrelevent to your argument then I kinda agree.

Your opinion is unsupported, then. Speed, however, is heavily supported. Don't assume I am arguing the same thing as BloodRain; I don't care how fast Dante is moving, he doesn't even necessarily have to be moving at hypersonic speeds. I care about you misrepresenting the scene with no evidence whatsoever, and claiming an ability that is completely unsupported. My position on this can be summed up as follows: Stasis fields is stupid.

Well no because Alastor does not do what it did in this video whenever he uses it. It does it once when he picks it up, otherwise it does little more than allow him to fly as a devil when equped and move a little quicker. Everything that happened in this cutscene has been shown once and only once and the power itself seems a one time cirumstance. e.g. Alastors power fusing into Dante.

Nothing prevents him from doing it again, though, since it did happen in cutscene. Ask BloodRain to show you the other scenes with slowdown, since your argument hinges upon all of them being stasis fields, too.

EDIT: Don't bother asking BloodRain, I think Matthias covered it well enough.

Originally posted by The Scenario
But blatantly false accusations of such are flaming. BloodRain already listed 6 examples for you, I see no reason to show them again, especially since youtube is screwing up for me right now. In any case, stasis fields are not a suitable explanation, they are a guess.

Your opinion is unsupported, then. Speed, however, is heavily supported. Don't assume I am arguing the same thing as BloodRain; I don't care how fast Dante is moving, he doesn't even necessarily have to be moving at hypersonic speeds. I care about you misrepresenting the scene with no evidence whatsoever, and claiming an ability that is completely unsupported. My position on this can be summed up as follows: [b]Stasis fields is stupid.

Nothing prevents him from doing it again, though, since it did happen in cutscene. Ask BloodRain to show you the other scenes with slowdown, since your argument hinges upon all of them being stasis fields, too. [/B]

Erm no, and to my perception their not false. If false accusations are flaming then your also flamiing to my perception, again your trolling me when youve run out of argument ideas. BLoodrain supposedly "listed" is your evidence? wow....

Excuse me, speed is supported when I have proven there are no indications? also thats a baseless couple of statements. Well I know your statements, I think "super speedz that make falling glass seem to stop are stupid!"

Goodluck any character in games vs allowing him to do that again. And no, my argument is that if it seems to be a stasis field, it may well be. I probably have other argumetns for different context, but my only argument that hinges on something would be my claim that their not moving as fast as BR claims or even close and that hinges on the hair, coats and sowrds not showing the pressures I am asking for.

Not sure I would anyway, Bloodrain seems a bit wavered on the subject on DMC canon and gets it mixed up with his beliefs.

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
wow.. this is alot of war..
O_o. im going to say this. you CANNOT use virgil as a "dante got hit by virgil, and he was moving slow" basis. virgil is dantes TWIN. and has similar, if not exactly the same powers. just different beliefs, and style.
and dante being weakened? yeah.. battling his twin twice.. and the girl. and an entire giant tower of demons and bosses.

and. dante CAN move at super sonic speeds. in dmc3, his awakening shows off him running down the tower, throwing his sword, shooting his sword, and catching up to it, as the blade itself is breaking the sound barrier, and heating up with the sheer friction of it. his hand it also burning, too. O_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oOoqPaQBmo
like that.
the intro for dmc3 has dante and virgil fighting in the rain, their strikes and swings are actually creating a dome surrounding them thats keeping the water from hitting them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVtVkmTQbxY
like that.

virgil can draw, strike multiple times, and sheathe his sword before you can see the movement with your eye. its called the judgement cut.

jester works out a massive plan to set the two brothers against each-other to weaken both. thats how he got the hit in. and he only got two in. then he was promptly served his own ass on a platter back to him after he obtained their fathers power.

and the alastor clip, thats just him moving fast. i dunno where all this stasis field stuff came from. stop it. its silly.

and as far as his speed? he can slow down time.. O_o.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItTtRm6sZks
see?
also.. he can move so fast, its as if he teleports..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhwUWTRTlJQ
see? hes fast. very fast. so is virgil. virgil can move so fast, he practically teleports, too.
i would like to point out that in that vid. its dante must die mode, and that he NEVER GOT HIT.

I can because if Vergil is moving slow, hes moving slow simple as that. It doesnt matter if its Dantes twin, george bush or me, if I was moving slow and tagged Dante, its not good for Dante. Dante was fine as he entered, he was weakened a few minutes later after fighting vergil, poor stamina.

If you read my earlier posts, I said the tower fall is the only time I belive he was moving at supersonic. And this is not Dante alone, he has gravity on his side.

Possibly air pressure there but thats it, they did not actually cause mcuh damage or friction, unlike when their swords strike together, it looks to me like harmless sparring but when Dante actually fights to wound, he slows down ad does harder attacks, like when their swords heat up from the friction. Of course, he gts his ass kicked then.

Jesters not the point, the point is that Vergil was blocked/countred, possibly more than once by lady as well whos a human.

stasis field is NOT stupid.. O_o..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DCH0vl2oKc
its awesome, see?

Dantes is not quite as good as the Arbiter one though since its got a bigger area lol...

Originally posted by Burning thought
If you read my earlier posts, I said the tower fall is the only time I belive he was moving at supersonic. And this is not Dante alone, he has gravity on his side.

Gravity doesn't work that way.

O_o...you were watching the fight between dante/virgil/lady/jester, right? so you do realise lady hardly countered virgil, but he was simply pinning her down because shes annoying? and i do think anyones stamina would be drained if they got impaled multiple times, faught for hours, dodged missiles, got shot in the head, twice, impaled some more, recently awakened their demonic potential, got eaten, faught his way back through all kinds of hell, and then had to fight their own super-powered twin who was fresh and well rested. O_o...

i mean hell... wouldnt you?