Who is more powerful, Thor or the Silver Surfer?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I know what you are referring to and it has absolutely no bearing on Thor's fight with BRB and Surfer.

You see the argument i presented was that in Blood and Thunder mini, Thor was amp, he was able to draw strength from his unusual temporary Insanity (Valkyrie) but you/Quan countered that there was no physical boost she was merely a mind construct, nothing more. Then i gave an example how she was more than just your norm hallucination; The fight with the Goddess in the physical realm and the end of Blood of thunder series against Odin (back to her normal state). All this contribute to Valkyrie being more than just your average MC.. So when Thor ask for her aid and when Bill said, " he draws strength from the madness." It was literally what was happening, he was drawing strength from this unusual insanity (Valkyrie). This is not your average Thor therefore cannot be used as normal feat for him... less similar sit. arises...

Originally posted by Mindship
(again, not saying this was WM in B&T)?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's you who aren't getting it. You are just wanting to believe it to offset Thor's domination of the Surfer. That was explained while this wasn't warrior madness. The only amp het got was through the power gem.

There was really never any evidence that Thor was not amp in this series but theres been a few and on panel proof that he was on accounts to his Insanity (Valkyrie), even a ref. that it is similar to WM..

Anyhow that is how i see it...

Originally posted by Ambient
It is of relevance..

You see the argument i presented was that in Blood and Thunder mini, Thor was amp, he was able to draw strength from his unusual temporary Insanity (Valkyrie) but you/Quan countered that there was no physical boost she was merely a mind construct, nothing more. Then i gave an example how she was more than just your norm hallucination; The fight with the Goddess in the physical realm and the end of Blood of thunder series against Odin (back to her normal state). All this contribute to Valkyrie being more than just your average MC.. So when Thor ask for her aid and when Bill said, " he draws strength from the madness." It was literally what was happening, he was drawing strength from this unusual insanity (Valkyrie). This is not your average Thor therefore cannot be used as normal feat for him... less similar sit. arises...

FYI.. Odin did say it was akin to WM..

Really i just want to get all the facts strait, is all...

There was really never any evidence that Thor was not amp in this series but theres been a few and on panel proof that he was on accounts to his Insanity (Valkyrie), even a ref. that it is similar to WM..

Anyhow that is how i see it...

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was only similar to the effect that he was out of his normal frame of mind. If it isn't the same form of madness then it simply isn't.

Its similar nough that it will spread like True WM..

We've seen the effect..

Originally posted by quanchi112
That was explained while this wasn't warrior madness. The only amp het got was through the power gem.

Originally posted by Ambient
FYI.. Odin did say it was akin to WM..

I need to get hold of the other issues in this arc. Clearly, there is more to this fight than SS Vol#3, No#86.

Originally posted by Ambient
It is of relevance..

You see the argument i presented was that in Blood and Thunder mini, Thor was amp, he was able to draw strength from his unusual temporary Insanity (Valkyrie) but you/Quan countered that there was no physical boost she was merely a mind construct, nothing more. Then i gave an example how she was more than just your norm hallucination; The fight with the Goddess in the physical realm and the end of Blood of thunder series against Odin (back to her normal state). All this contribute to Valkyrie being more than just your average MC.. So when Thor ask for her aid and when Bill said, " he draws strength from the madness." It was literally what was happening, he was drawing strength from this unusual insanity (Valkyrie). This is not your average Thor therefore cannot be used as normal feat for him... less similar sit. arises...

Fine, I'll have to spoonfeed you.

If you had continued reading Thor, you would've noticed that the Goddess was NOT able to see Valkyrie later on. When Thor was in their Omega base and facing his fears, Valkyrie appeared together with the illusion that Goddess created. Thor asked if she had also created the woman, to which Goddess replied "what woman" and that she could not see her. Valkyrie was a part of Thor's psyche that attempted to protect Thor against Goddess mind control. As soon as Thor intervened, he was under Goddess' control. And before this whole "powerup" business became relevant, Thor had already beaten the shit out of Beta Ray Bill, Sif and Ares/Pluto before that.

You also need to look at what Valkyrie says to Thor. That she cannot and will not help him and that he must use his own rage. There's no doubt that Thor's rage or insanity gave him the will to keep on fighting, but there is no way in hell it gave him an actual physical boost. Valkyrie was able to resist Odin on the astral plane, so what? Based on this you claim that she was some other entity? That is pure BS. Any kind of insanity or madness that afflicted Thor would've put up a considerable effort against anyone who attempts to cure him via telepathy. You think that "regular" insanities are cured that easily through telepathy? Hell, what Thor had seemed to be a rather mild case actually. He created imaginary lover and acted paranoid.

"Help me defeat these guys Valkyrie"

"No, use your own anger"

That's drawing strength now? Even if she had somehow "healed" him, it would've been entirely symbolic and not been an actual physical boost. Or do you think that Thor is able to construct imaginary friends with superhuman powers that can refill his OWN power restores? Regardless of which insane interpretation you choose, it remains THOR'S OWN DOING.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor471_16.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor471_19.jpg

Valkyrie was always him. He injures her at the risk of permanently scarring or taking his own life. And like Thor says, she came out of nothing.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor472-05.jpg

"she fanned the flames of my rage" all she did was keep him angry, make sure that he wanted to fight on. And Odin mentions how the power gem had a DEFINITE EFFECT on his insanity.

Who's more versatile, Surfer
Who's more powerful, Thor

Originally posted by Ambient
It was mentioned that it was not the true WM but still is a WM the diff. is that of the cause, it being brought by Odin manipulation of Thor's spirit..

Its similar nough that it will spread like True WM..

We've seen the effect..

Originally posted by carver9
Who's more versatile, Surfer
Who's more powerful, Thor

Originally posted by carver9
Who's more versatile, Surfer
Who's more powerful, Thor

Originally posted by quanchi112
Correct.

Originally posted by Badabing
mmm

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If you had continued reading Thor, you would've noticed that the Goddess was NOT able to see Valkyrie later on. When Thor was in their Omega base and facing his fears, Valkyrie appeared together with the illusion that Goddess created. Thor asked if she had also created the woman, to which Goddess replied "what woman" and that she could not see her.

and before this whole "powerup" business became relevant, Thor had already beaten the shit out of Beta Ray Bill, Sif and Ares/Pluto before that.

A holding back BRB but look at what happened when he got pissed..

You also need to look at what Valkyrie says to Thor. That she cannot and will not help him and that he must use his own rage.

Valkyrie was able to resist Odin on the astral plane, so what? Based on this you claim that she was some other entity? That is pure BS. Any kind of insanity or madness that afflicted Thor would've put up a considerable effort against anyone who attempts to cure him via telepathy. You think that "regular" insanities are cured that easily through telepathy? Hell, what Thor had seemed to be a rather mild case actually. He created imaginary lover and acted paranoid.

But it diff. lead something to her, she taps into some unseen force outside Thor's resource.. Why would she says "not help him and must use you own rage." It suggest that she could but choose not to...

Ive never disputed that she was never M.C/Defense and have never mentioned of her being a separate entity (tech. an entity within an entity.. but meeh) However the person she is resisting is way outside of the level she's gaining the resources of her power, yet she persist..

Mild case??? Its so mild that Odin is willing to kill his fav. son for fear of spreading?? not making sense at all...

That's drawing strength now? Even if she had somehow "healed" him, it would've been entirely symbolic and not been an actual physical boost. Or do you think that Thor is able to construct imaginary friends with superhuman powers that can refill his OWN power restores? Regardless of which insane interpretation you choose, it remains THOR'S OWN DOING.

"she fanned the flames of my rage" all she did was keep him angry, make sure that he wanted to fight on. And Odin mentions how the power gem had a DEFINITE EFFECT on his insanity.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You're still clinging to one statement that wasn't meant to be taken literally. His madness wasn't the same thing and wasn't described to be able to increase his strength in any sense of the word.

later, need to get back to work..

Yet that one statement alone isn't enough.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yet that one statement alone isn't enough.

abc logic time

surfer > brb

brb = thor

surfer > thor

hooray!

Ummm.....Brb only = Thor without his Odinforce.

yeah, and last time i checked, thor gave up his odin force to repair mjolnir and save lady siff soooo thor is back to his classic self now which is = brb

kinda selfish of thor to give up the odin force and leave his people vulnerable if you ask me. and for what? a good f@*k?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I haven't refused to discuss anything.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have already heard your reasoning. Thor fought him again with help and put him down just as easily. The comic made it very clear that Thor>>Surfer in this arc. You can argue had the Surfer done this or that, but it reeks of fanboyism. Let it go.

I'm pretty sure that qualifies as refusing to discuss anything outside of Blood and Thunder.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's you who refuses to answer the topic's thread question. Who is more powerful and what are you basing this off of?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh Thor's hammer definitely has it's advantages(such as a higher capacity to absorb energy), I just don't think power output is one of them. I mean Thor's damaged an EXTREMELY weakened Galactus with his Godblast, but then again Surfer's casually created a blackhole with his energy discharge(which kinda implies a blast on par with a super nova). I have a hard time crediting Thor's feat as being outright more impressive given some of Galactus's low showings and his occasional difficulties with magic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it doesn't. You gave one of the examples this board uses as absolute pis which I completely agree with and therein draw a false comparison between Thor and Norrin. Thor and Norrin have always been in the same class while Spiderman and Firelord have not. That's the difference.

The fight being brought up proves even without the godblast Thor has proven to be more powerful than the Surfer in direct conflict. Thor didn't even use his most powerful attack while it seems the Surfer doesn't even have a most powerful attack. This fight in and of itself doesn't prove Thor's superiority in power but the godblast does.

No, I don't care to waste my time over whether this constitutes as pis. I will do a regular battlezone with you representing Thor vs. the Surfer though in combat. I remember the time you actually got trick to stack the odds in your favor representing Thanos and used a crossover as evidence when it's against the rules. You are a hypocrite.

No, I am not. I am simply saying it isn't pis because it isn't. You are trying to excuse two showings like we are on cbr and going by the highest feats alone which Thor still wins in this particular thread. We don't debate based on powersets alone and what you would do with the pc, friend. You should know this by now.

What does the Surfer have at his disposal that is as powerful or more so than the godblast?

I won't bother with most of this because like I've already pointed out, I'm not here to play checkers so there's no point in a typical debate between us. But as for this...

Originally posted by quanchi112
I will do a regular battlezone with you representing Thor vs. the Surfer though in combat.

When's good for you?

^ too bad current thor is now back to classic thor who is about = to beta ray bill who just got his ass kicked by the surfer...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure you did. Remember, I asked if you wanted to discuss whether or not it qualified as PIS and you responded...

I'm pretty sure that qualifies as refusing to discuss anything outside of Blood and Thunder.

Yet more nonsense, I've already given my opinion twice now and once it was at your request so I don't know how you managed to forget...

I won't bother with most of this because like I've already pointed out, I'm not here to play checkers so there's no point in a typical debate between us. But as for this...

When's good for you?

I'm glad you admit Thor is more powerful.
October.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you want to waste your time about it I am game. It's my opinion vs. yours whether or not something is pis. Let's argue over something subjective just because you're upset it happened.

And aside from the potential PIS factor, as Ambient has repeatedly pointed out now Thor was stated on-panel as being amped by his madness. It may not have been the true Warrior Madness, but it's not as if Genis or Lightray were under Asgardian Warrior's Madness when they were insane and being portrayed at levels far beyond the norm for them either. That's just the way things are with crazy people...

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm glad you admit Thor is more powerful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
October.

😂