Originally posted by quanchi112
That was Beta Ray Bill's opinion which was incorrect about warrior's madness. You are acting like the guy knows everything when he was wrong about the madness that ailed him.I don't have to as it's just an opinion.
You don't know that. Thor has driven off the Surfer's master and a celestial that dwarfs Arishem. What has Surfer done with a blackhole?
I just want you to know I inspired more votes and turned the tide.
Surfer couldn't finish the job the ff4, etc. had started against a very weakened Galactus. Thor did. Thor succeeds where the Surfer fails when he pulls out the old godblast. Surfer doesn't have a trump card anywhere near this powerful.
One that trumps yours.
He doesn't really use them much. But this thread is about power output right? Therefor his generating a blast capable of creating a blackhole is valid. If you want to know how powerful of a blast it would take, look at other blasts that create blackholes.
Doubtful, but if it makes you feel better to believe so...
Surfer didn't have Ego as a partner, Thor did. Ego did most of the work, Thor just landed a sucker shot when Galactus moved in for the kill. Again, not impressive.
Originally posted by darthgooberThat doesn't mean he was right either. The arc was very specific as to when he was actually getting stronger and it was due to the power gem.
He was wrong about Warrior Madness because it so closely resembled the state. That doesn't mean he was wrong about Thor getting stronger.One that trumps yours.
He doesn't really use them much. But this thread is about power output right? Therefor his generating a blast capable of creating a blackhole is valid. If you want to know how powerful of a blast it would take, look at other blasts that create blackholes.
Doubtful, but if it makes you feel better to believe so...
Surfer didn't have Ego as a partner, Thor did. Ego did most of the work, Thor just landed a sucker shot when Galactus moved in for the kill. Again, not impressive.
No, it was an incorrect opinion.
It's powerful don't get me wrong, but so far you haven't demonstrated why it's more powerful than a godblast.
You brought it up. 😉
Surfer had lots o fhelp and a plot device reed was sporting if memory serves me correct and even if Galactus' weakened state he was still nothing before his master and always has been.
Surfer is also nothing before Odin.
Thor wins.
Originally posted by darthgooberIt takes a supernova to create a black hole. But that's without converting all the star's mass to pure energy. Using only pure energy...
If you want to know how powerful of a blast it would take, look at other blasts that create blackholes.
Originally posted on page 9
A "typical" stellar black hole weighs around 10 solar masses: about 40 million trillion trillion (4 x 10^31) pounds.1 (one!) pound converted completely to energy (e=mc^2) is about 30 thousand trillion (3 x 10^16) joules, or roughly what's released in a 10 megaton blast.
This means the energy equivalent of a mass needed to create a typical stellar black hole > 1 trillion trillion trillion trillion (10^48) joules, or what's released in a 400 million trillion trillion (4 x 10^32) megaton blast.
In terms we can relate to, this means, to create a typical stellar black hole, one needs the energy of about 10,000 supernovas.
Originally posted by quanchi112Comic black holes, it would seem, are not like their real-life counterparts. But given there's not even a real-life counterpart to a godblast, it's still legit. However, comparison is difficult without attaching a wattage value to a godblast.
It's powerful don't get me wrong, but so far you haven't demonstrated why it's more powerful than a godblast.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean he was right either. The arc was very specific as to when he was actually getting stronger and it was due to the power gem.No, it was an incorrect opinion.
It's powerful don't get me wrong, but so far you haven't demonstrated why it's more powerful than a godblast.
You brought it up. 😉
Surfer had lots o fhelp and a plot device reed was sporting if memory serves me correct and even if Galactus' weakened state he was still nothing before his master and always has been.
Surfer is also nothing before Odin.Thor wins.
Based on what?
I never said it was more powerful, I said that Thor and Surfer are approximately. If you're the one making the claim that the Godblast is more powerful then it's up to you to demonstrate why. But neither Galactus nor the Celestials are valid examples because neither was accomplished on Thor's lonesome(he had Ego against Galactus and his belt against the Celestials).
No what I said was that I wasn't worried about your opinion because debates are for the onlookers rather than the participants. Then you got a hard on over the polls and kept bringing them up as if they're an accurate reflection of forum opinion.
Nope.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said it was more powerful, I said that Thor and Surfer are approximately. If you're the one making the claim that the Godblast is more powerful then it's up to you to demonstrate why. But neither Galactus nor the Celestials are valid examples because neither was accomplished on Thor's lonesome(he had Ego against Galactus and his belt against the Celestials).
There's still the enchanters, and the damage output against the celestial would still remain the same, he only needed the belt to hold it. The belt is also pretty much always readily available to him.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There's still the enchanters, and the damage output against the celestial would still remain the same, he only needed the belt to hold it. The belt is also pretty much always readily available to him.
Without his belt the hammer would have shattered before releasing all that energy. Quan didn't say that he has it in in regards to this thread, which means that both parties have "standard equipment".
Originally posted by quanchi112
This was never stated and was never alluded to.What does it possibly being able to spread have to do with amping himself?
Well for one the abnormality of his condition, the similarities of the condition it being inferred too, and the personal views and conclusion of the other character he meet and fought of in the past.. A likely indication that his condition is somehow making him stronger..
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, and warlock's opinion is just his opinion. Odin was the one who determined it wasn't true warrior's madness. You are acting as if Warlock's opinion equals fact.
Originally posted by MindshipWell, the godblast has worked against the guy who gives the Surfer's powers to him. That about warps it up for my case.
It takes a supernova to create a black hole. But that's without converting all the star's mass to pure energy. Using only pure energy...Addendum: In 1997, astronomers detected a gamma-ray burst which measured as the most powerful explosion known after the Big Bang, said to equal in energy several hundred supernovas (apparently less than 1/10 the value noted above).
Comic black holes, it would seem, are not like their real-life counterparts. But given there's not even a real-life counterpart to a godblast, it's still legit. However, comparison is difficult without attaching a wattage value to a godblast.
Originally posted by darthgooberI'm not ignoring anything. I am going over the context of his entire statement. The guy was wrong as could be about warrior's madness which you don't seem to care and think BrB can sense amps. LOL.
Ignore the on panel evidence if you want quan, you're the one it reflects badly on.Based on what?
I never said it was more powerful, I said that Thor and Surfer are approximately. If you're the one making the claim that the Godblast is more powerful then it's up to you to demonstrate why. But neither Galactus nor the Celestials are valid examples because neither was accomplished on Thor's lonesome(he had Ego against Galactus and his belt against the Celestials).
No what I said was that I wasn't worried about your opinion because debates are for the onlookers rather than the participants. Then you got a hard on over the polls and kept bringing them up as if they're an accurate reflection of forum opinion.
Nope.
Based on common sense and the fact BrB cannot sense an amp.
No, it doesn't. The story explains his amp later in the story through the power gem and never addressed one before.
Both are valid examples. You are one of the biggest surfer marks I have ever met in my life. You can't even lose a debate respectfully but have to pretend his feats don't count in order to call stalemate. I bet you voted for the Surfer though.
The godblast beat a weakened Galactus while the Surfer has never done so in 616 reality due to his power.
You brought up the onlookers and like a sore loser want to ignore the vote count when it used to be in the surfer's favor.
Thor wins this as you haven't given any legit examples of power even coming close to rivaling it.
Originally posted by darthgooberI have already answered this. Since he had no amp the feat stands. He doesn't need to recreate the blast in this thread.
What enchanters(I must not know what you're talking about)?Without his belt the hammer would have shattered before releasing all that energy. Quan didn't say that he has it in in regards to this thread, which means that both parties have "standard equipment".
Originally posted by AmbientIt was the guy's opinion which was proven incorrect in the other regard.
One could say the same to your point.. Fact is we have on panel evidence and our opinions is based on that proof while your opinion is solely base on gut feeling and likeness of the character..Well for one the abnormality of his condition, the similarities of the condition it being inferred too, and the personal views and conclusion of the other character he meet and fought of in the past.. A likely indication that his condition is somehow making him stronger..
It was actually Warlock's and Comp. that made Odin conclude that it was not WM, prior to that the all father actually thought it was "True WM". That makes Warlock's opinions hold great value..
Brb still got the better of him momentarily proving no amp. Thor never had an all out battle with the Surfer before with both at normal levels so we see now where they stood.
Odin was the only who could determine it and warlock never once stated Thor was amped prior to the power gem.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm not ignoring anything. I am going over the context of his entire statement. The guy was wrong as could be about warrior's madness which you don't seem to care and think BrB can sense amps. LOL.Based on common sense and the fact BrB cannot sense an amp.
No, it doesn't. The story explains his amp later in the story through the power gem and never addressed one before.
Both are valid examples. You are one of the biggest surfer marks I have ever met in my life. You can't even lose a debate respectfully but have to pretend his feats don't count in order to call stalemate. I bet you voted for the Surfer though.
The godblast beat a weakened Galactus while the Surfer has never done so in 616 reality due to his power.
You brought up the onlookers and like a sore loser want to ignore the vote count when it used to be in the surfer's favor.
Thor wins this as you haven't given any legit examples of power even coming close to rivaling it.
I understand quan, you think that you're a better judge of Thor than BRB is and that you're opinion trumps what is said in the comic. Believe it if you want, like I said that's on you.
We were talking about Warlock there, not BRB.
No what doesn't? Sure it did, in BRB's statement and Warlock's assessment of his abilities.
If they're valid examples, address the circumstances. Didn't Galactus JUST go through a massive battle and wasn't he portrayed in a subpar manner in the story? How is a feat that REQUIRED the belt relevant in a thread that doesn't feature it?
Or Surfer never did so because he's never fought him right after he's been through a massive battle with Ego in a story where G was portrayed in a subpar manner.
I never brought up the vote as evidence, like I said everyone knows that it's a poor gauge. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead and cling to it, I'm not worried about it.
Sure I have, a casual blast that created a blackhole as a side effect. Has a blackhole ever formed as a side effect of a blast from Thor?
Originally posted by quanchi112
I have already answered this. Since he had no amp the feat stands. He doesn't need to recreate the blast in this thread.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It was the guy's opinion which was proven incorrect in the other regard.Brb still got the better of him momentarily proving no amp. Thor never had an all out battle with the Surfer before with both at normal levels so we see now where they stood.
Odin was the only who could determine it and warlock never once stated Thor was amped prior to the power gem.
Yet it states on panel that he was drawing strength from the madness, this incident also happen after Bill bested him.. A good proof of the increase in strength since he mauled 3 top tiers after losing to 1, a good indication i must say..
He would have never determined it had Warlock and Comp.. witheld such and such information, without it he would still believe it to be WM..
And they still nver had??
Indirectly he did state that Thor was far more stronger and faster from their first fight (This first interaction happens to be against a WM Thor).. +++ This was Adam's HIM's version, a physically stronger version...
Anyhow its getting too late.. Gotta finish it latta..
Originally posted by quanchi112It just occurred to me: has the Surfer ever actually tried to stop Galactus the way Thor sought to, specifically, going all-out while taking advantage of a weakened state? The only thing I can think of offhand is from their first appearance, when the Surfer did temporarily stop Galactus with an energy cocoon (which was hardly a maximum effort on Surfer's part). All other times (?) the Surfer has sought to help when Big G was weak.
The godblast beat a weakened Galactus while the Surfer has never done so in 616 reality due to his power.
My knowledge of actual, no-screwin'-around Surfer/Galactus fights is sketchy.
Originally posted by MindshipI recall one where they got into it, Galactus tried to eye-beam him and Surfer was flying around dodging it, and tried to blast Galactus to no effect, before catching a pimp slap and getting the fight knocked out of him.
It just occurred to me: has the Surfer ever actually tried to stop Galactus the way Thor sought to, going all-out while taking advantage of a weakened state? The only thing I can think of offhand is from their first appearance, when the Surfer did temporarily stop Galactus with an energy cocoon (which was hardly a maximum effort on Surfer's part). All other times (?) the Surfer has sought to help his master when Big G was weak.My knowledge of actual, no-screwin'-around Surfer/Galactus fights is sketchy.
Originally posted by darthgooberI am reading the story. BrB's opinion isn't factual. We saw despite all his knowledge be proven flat incorrect about warrior madness. I mean come on.
I understand quan, you think that you're a better judge of Thor than BRB is and that you're opinion trumps what is said in the comic. Believe it if you want, like I said that's on you.We were talking about Warlock there, not BRB.
No what doesn't? Sure it did, in BRB's statement and Warlock's assessment of his abilities.
If they're valid examples, address the circumstances. Didn't Galactus JUST go through a massive battle and wasn't he portrayed in a subpar manner in the story? How is a feat that REQUIRED the belt relevant in a thread that doesn't feature it?
Or Surfer never did so because he's never fought him right after he's been through a massive battle with Ego in a story where G was portrayed in a subpar manner.
I never brought up the vote as evidence, like I said everyone knows that it's a poor gauge. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead and cling to it, I'm not worried about it.
Sure I have, a casual blast that created a blackhole as a side effect. Has a blackhole ever formed as a side effect of a blast from Thor?
If he can't create a blast like that without the belt then it's not applicable in a thread that doesn't feature it. This thread is about who's more powerful between Surfer and Thor not "Surfer and Thor w/Belt of Strength wrapped around hammer". I don't know why you're having such a hard time understanding that.
When did Warlock say Thor was amping himself?
That's their generalized opinion. If I take someone on years later and say I don't remember them being this vicious or this fast that doesn't translate into they are amped!!!!! Think about it. When does Warlock state he is amped?
Galactus also went through a massive battle against the Surfer in the devourer arc. It seems you want to excuse the surfer's showing which had to do with very similar circumstances. He had a lot of help as well. The belt isn't needed for that kind of power. I have already addressed this. I explained myself so quit crying abou *** already.
Surfer took on a crack addict version of Galactus in the devourer and he was still nothing. That was one of the weaker versions of Galactus out there to boot.
You brought up the onlookers which has to do with the votes. You can't stand the fact I changed the voting.
What relevance does that have? Seriously, you just want to derail this thread further. What has a blackhole ever done powerwise by the surfer to make you believe it's more powerrful or on par with a godblast?
It was a legitimate feat he has performed in the past and didn't amp his power output. That's the kind of power that exists in Thor. Can Surfer shatter his hammer?
Originally posted by JuntaiAre you thinking of their first appearance? Neither Galactus nor the Surfer were really trying to hurt one another, until that eye-beam shot, something Galactus certainly could've done to a far slower Thor. Could Thor have absorbed such a shot? Probably not, given that Thor needed some prep time (and a special stand?) to launch the godblast.
I recall one where they got into it, Galactus tried to eye-beam him and Surfer was flying around dodging it, and tried to blast Galactus to no effect, before catching a pimp slap and getting the fight knocked out of him.
I'm thinking specifically of Surfer ever having launched a no-holds-barred, 100% effort to take advantage of a severe Hunger state.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33Not based on their battles or Thor's history.
Surfer>Thor
Originally posted by AmbientNo, it isn't. If something isn't exactly the same thing you cannot assume an amp when one was never ever described literally in the story. When Thor was being amped we were told when and it was due to the power gem.
True but the condition is still a form of WM, the only difference is the cause however the similarities of the symptoms in both condition is so similar that one could infer it without close and thorough examination to be interchangeable... Its why both BRB/Odin was proven incorrect and why Odin called it not true WM yet still deem to call it Madness, a warrior's madness.. Making the symptoms (x strength) commented by BRB and a statement made by Adam a valid proof..Yet it states on panel that he was drawing strength from the madness, this incident also happen after Bill bested him.. A good proof of the increase in strength since he mauled 3 top tiers after losing to 1, a good indication i must say..
He would have never determined it had Warlock and Comp.. witheld such and such information, without it he would still believe it to be WM..
And they still nver had??
Indirectly he did state that Thor was far more stronger and faster from their first fight (This first interaction happens to be against a WM Thor).. +++ This was Adam's HIM's version, a physically stronger version...
Anyhow its getting too late.. Gotta finish it latta..
When did Warlock say he was amped? Seriously, direct me to this comment. BrB was flat out wrong yet you want to dismiss that. LOL.
BrB was talking about a figurative boost and he cannot sense amps anyways. Thor lost to BrB one on one briefly after Surfer got him the time he needed to recover. I guess he was amped as well since he recovered and bested him one on one. Thor has always been>Surfer and Warlock. BrB could still best him one on one thus proving an amp was ridiculous at this point in the story.
They did in blood and thunder. You like most surfer fans can't take it that Thor going all out is much better than the Surfer.
That isn't proof of an amp. So I guess by that statement Thor was also faster. I guess blood and thunder increase his speed. This is how ridiculous and how desperate you are getting. I mean come on.
Thor won just accept it.
Originally posted by MindshipIn Galactus the devourer, he easily could have crushed the Surfer. He easily expelled him in skaar's run. He's always casucally dealt with the Surfer like nothing. Surfer is nothing to Galactus while Thor's godblast sent him running.
It just occurred to me: has the Surfer ever actually tried to stop Galactus the way Thor sought to, specifically, going all-out while taking advantage of a weakened state? The only thing I can think of offhand is from their first appearance, when the Surfer did temporarily stop Galactus with an energy cocoon (which was hardly a maximum effort on Surfer's part). All other times (?) the Surfer has sought to help when Big G was weak.My knowledge of actual, no-screwin'-around Surfer/Galactus fights is sketchy.
