Originally posted by darthgooberThor ended asgard including Loki at the end of his run. Again, Loki is a clever manipulator and they weren't in the midst of a battle. Surfer just tried to leave town after he told everyone on planet Sakaar they were all doomed. He's an idiot and shouldn't have left himself so vulnerable to Skaar. He paid for it.
And he's evil to the core, and Thor brought him back.Yes I did, I brought up Mephisto. And I conceded no such thing. I never use the Crunch as a power output feat, I just use it as a channeling feat(and in this case, a resolve feat).
What makes you think it wouldn't have happened otherwise? You keep saying that, but why?
You mentioned him breaking out of the Goddess's mind control as a resolve feat(at least that's what I thought it was) and I brought up Surfer doing the same.
😂
That's in the heat of combat, he's never tried to kill him when he was beaten and helpless. Sure he is. You said it yourself, Thor mixes it up with the Hulk and has massive problems because of it. Surfer ends the fight early via gamma draining and such. And of course Morg's more ferocious than Surfer 🤨 .
PIS plain and simple. Surfer jumped off his board like a moron and gave up his massive mobility advantage. But you can look to their first fight to see that it's not his standard strategy. I'm calling PIS on one fight, you're trying to ignore every fight Thor's had with Hulk, Wonder Man, and Firelord.
And he obviously wasn't going all out, because according to Thor a warning blast from Surfer can kill him. 😉
When has Thor ever given up to Mephisto? Hela also wants his soul badly. Thor is more sought after than even the Silver Surfer. Mephisto backed down to Hela too by the way when she threatened to invade his realm. Food for thought.
This is why pis is a bad rule. You are handicapping Thor while dismissing a direct confrontation. I can call pis on his fight with the Hulk because he trades blows for blow while ignoring his hammer's exotic abilities that could get him the win every time. You cannot dismiss one while not calling pis on the other.
We have two direct fights. Thor won decisively in both of them. Warlock had to save the Surfer's ass by using his board to flee.
Because he was mentally unstable and looking for another cause since he turned his back on Odin and asgard.
Yes, I did so to show the resolve he has during battle which the Surfer does not have. Surfer battles as a last resort while Thor and all asgardians live to test themselves.
I understand this, but the fact remains the Surfer will avoid killing someone at all costs even during the heat of combat while the Surfer won't. He won't even take the life of someone who will continue to murder over and over again while just butchering Nova.
Thor was probably going to kill the red hulk as well while he was stunned and at his mercy prior to Rulk interfering. Surfer couldn't even beat Thanos in Strange's scenario even after he had the advantage. The guy is weak and always will be.
Yes, thor and Hulk have one heckuva rivalry but the Surfer and Thor don't. Thor has dominated him twice in one story under his own power. ABC logic won't save you here. Yes, and like I said the only reason Morg didn't defeat the Surfer is due to Surfer healing himself which Morg hasn't shown the ability to do. That's it.
What are you talking about? Thor almost killed the Surfer twice. Thor going all out>>Surfer going all out with Warlock at his side. The comic showed us how a fight goes down and it wasn't even close. Surfer fled from thor's wrath.
2+ pages of babbling about battle tactics when a simple "thor hails from a race of vikings and norrin a race of scholars" would have sufficed.
it's not clear which character is more outright powerful, but the silver surfer IS essential to the universe and is held in high regard with some of the abstracts.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
2+ pages of babbling about battle tactics when a simple "thor hails from a race of vikings and norrin a race of scholars" would have sufficed.it's not clear which character is more outright powerful, but the silver surfer IS essential to the universe and is held in high regard with some of the abstracts.
How is he essential?
He's been replaced 5 times man.
Originally posted by psycho gundamGodblast. Nuff said. Until the Surfer can bring something to the table equal to that Thor is the more powerful of the two.
2+ pages of babbling about battle tactics when a simple "thor hails from a race of vikings and norrin a race of scholars" would have sufficed.it's not clear which character is more outright powerful, but the silver surfer IS essential to the universe and is held in high regard with some of the abstracts.
Originally posted by Kris BlazeIMO, that Loki gave Surfer all his power back is speculation. As we debated in that other thread, Loki tested Surfer and could only stalemate him, implying that at best Loki could only double what Surfer had then, which as I also documented was only a tiny fraction of what he had pre-sonic-shark.
Surfer was somewhat depowered yes, but Loki gave him all of his power.During Thor's imprisonment by Seth, Loki was able to restore him by giving him HALF of his own strength. It's impossible to tell how strong that Surfer was in comparison to his usual self, thus it's pure speculation.
We could recount the whole debate here, but what would be the point. I think it's safe to say, this is something we won't see eye-to-eye on.
Originally posted by quanchi112I always considered WM Thor's win over Surfer legit because of how WM affects Thor. Even if we dismiss the arguable 10x increase in strength, throughout the fight (except for the very end) Surfer was holding back whereas WM Thor was not, which means that throughout the fight (except at the end) Surfer was taking more punishment from Thor than Thor from Surfer.
We have two direct fights. Thor won decisively in both of them.
As for the first fight...this was hardly a decisive victory. If anything, it could easily have been decisive with Surfer winning. I hate to bring it up (because it seems so indignant to Thor), but Surfer had Thor crawling on the ground after Surfer separated him from Mjolnir. Imagine if Surfer had not paused in his attacks to monologue, thus giving Thor the moment he needed to recuperate...
((And the more I think about Goob's points: how indeed could Surfer separate Thor from Mjolnir if the mallet's magic was so superior?? Meps. For my own sense of balance between the characters, I prefer to give Mjolnir's power the benefit of the doubt, ie, that with it, Thor can generate more sheer wattage, if that's how we're defining power here. But as for who would win in a fight...?)).
Of course, one could debate just how powerful Surfer was in the first fight, but Kris Blaze and I cover that ground over and over and over... 😉
Originally posted by psycho gundamYou say that like it's a bad thing. 😉
2+ pages of babbling about battle tactics
Originally posted by Mindship
IMO, that Loki gave Surfer all his power back is speculation. As we debated in that other thread, Loki tested Surfer and could only stalemate him, implying that at best Loki could only double what Surfer had then, which as I also documented was only a tiny fraction of what he had pre-sonic-shark.
And this is where the true bias wrestles control over you.
Surfer with a fraction of his power is strong enough to stalemate Loki.
Quanchi's correct.
Thor was simply mad.
The Warrior Madness is completely different.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor's battle with HIM and his first Warrior Madness experience. Like we see at the end, once the battle is won he naturally reverts out of the madness:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-01.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-02.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-03.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-04.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-08.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-09.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-10.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-11.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-12.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-13.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-14.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-15.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-16.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-17.jpgAs punishment for this, Thor is later sent out to find out the origin of Galactus.
Originally posted by Kris BlazeYou are entitled to your opinion, of course, but Norrin was not the one who yelled (in Asgardian), "Enough"! It would be better if you argued for the stalemate being PIS.
And this is where the true bias wrestles control over you.Surfer with a fraction of his power is strong enough to stalemate Loki.
Originally posted by quanchi112Ah. Well, I had been doubting that strength-amp anyway. Thanks for the clarification.
Mindship, one quick thing in response to your post. It wasn't warrior's madness. They thought it was, but it wasn't. There was no amp in strength making it perfectly within the realm of an all out Thor with no additional amps until later on when he acquired the power gem.
I always saw Thor and SS to be equally as powerful. I just believe Thor is the better fighter and is more effective against single targets. Surfer is not as good a fighter (and suffers from MAJOR CISitis) but is a bit more versatile, a lot more mobile and can do better against multiple targets as well as can do better wide-area damage.
I always see Thor winning in a 1v1 fight between the two, tho.
Speaking of Thor vs Surfer, anyone got the BRB vs Thor issue yet?
Originally posted by Mindship
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but Norrin was not the one who yelled (in Asgardian), "Enough"! It would be better if you argued for the stalemate being PIS.
"Enow" doesn't really indicate that he's losing....
Monarch often told people to stop in Arena. Did he do this because they were threats to him?
Originally posted by quanchi112to play devil's advocate, the godblast is powerful, but at the same time it's thor's most potent attack and therefor the pinnacle of his offensive abilities = majority of his power/life force directed at an opponent. it also leaves him drained after it's use.
Godblast. Nuff said. Until the Surfer can bring something to the table equal to that Thor is the more powerful of the two.
i think it's pure pis tbh, but 8th day juggy tanked it and the earth didn't vaporize from the splash damage 😬
the godblast is actually a good thing to use when gauging thor since it's not mjolnir but thor that powers it, mjolnir is just the conduit for it's release.
again, devil's advocate
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You make it sound as if Surfer did better than Thor when actually Thor had been fighting Durok for many hours and Surfer was knocked unconscious much faster....
Originally posted by psycho gundamWho cares if it leaves him vulnerable afterwards. It proves he is more powerful. That is what this thread is all about.
to play devil's advocate, the godblast is powerful, but at the same time it's thor's most potent attack and therefor the pinnacle of his offensive abilities = majority of his power/life force directed at an opponent. it also leaves him drained after it's use.i think it's pure pis tbh, but 8th day juggy tanked it and the earth didn't vaporize from the splash damage 😬
the godblast is actually a good thing to use when gauging thor since it's not mjolnir but thor that powers it, mjolnir is just the conduit for it's release.
again, devil's advocate
You know comics don't have to make sense, right?
