If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create?

Started by peejayd10 pages

peejayd Senior Member

Originally posted by leonheartmm
correction. PERSONAL ANECDOTES<<<<<<<<<<<<<<accepted theories of child psychology. you obviously know nothing OF child psychology or psychology in general. heck your following extract of anecdotal accounts show that you know nothing of stereotyping or statistics. many people in my society claim the same things, but when you look deeper, you find the hypocrisy and abuse inherent in such societies. you are an ABSOLUTE IDIOT if you think hitting your children makes them love you more

* as i've said, experience >>> child psychology... and no, you are a stubborn person not knowing the limits, just generalizing...

http://raisinggreatkids.com/discipline.htm

* there is a very huge difference between hitting because of discipline, and hitting with no reason at all... stop your idiotic standard of raising kids, that would be your downfall in the end...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it has been proven time and time again, lately the fact that it allowes and even encourages physical discipline is proof that it is evil.

* you've proven NOTHING! you just said it was proven...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ofcourse examples of god killing the infants in ancient egypt doesnt hurt the case either.

* because you don't believe in the power of God, Him taking the lives of infants seemed evil to you... but Jesus said:

"But Jesus said, Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14

* God gives life, and He can take it away... it's not evil...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
what about the presence of suffering in god's world. why did he make it?

* didn't man made it? can't you blame man instead? man has greed, man can also do wicked things... to answer your question, God made everything beautiful, it was man who ruined it...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
why circumcision?

* your science did not tell you circumcision makes human males healthier? cleaner? you sure are very knowledgeable...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
why punishment for fornication?

* do you know having sexual intercourse without marriage or responsibility results? unwanted pregnancy, unprepared family life, and even results in having multiple sexual partners because you are not even committed to the one you're having sex with... and with multiple sexual partners result in various diseases...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
why an eternity of hellfire if you dont beleive in him?

* proves you know nothing about the teachings of Jesus... God is the Savior of both believers and non-believers, I Timothy 4:10...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no satisfactory answer here, there, proven. its evil

* nope... you're pawned... 😛

Originally posted by leonheartmm
heck no? so you dont respect the point of view or philsophy of the pedophile? GREAT. uve proven that not all philosophies are worthy of respect,

* this is a technicality... pedophile is an act, it is somewhat weird to say it is a belief... i am on the positive side, and forcing someone into a negative is a blatant fallacy on your part...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and i dont consider yours to be worth anything respectful.

* because you misunderstood Christianity in the Bible and refuse to accept that there are good things written in there...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
why are you using axtracts from a disproven fairytale to suport the argument that the said fairytale is real? sounds like circular reasoning to me.

* only confirms you know NOTHING about the book you're rejecting... and that's idiocy...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the bible isnt a FINE book, it makes good people do evil things {circumcision, case in point}

* how could you tell? you know nothing about it... 🙄

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and who will judge interpretation? you?

* there are passages in the Bible which are interpreted by other passages within the Bible... if people are just persevere and patient in reading it first before giving wrong interpretations, the outcome would have been better...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the person calling the earth the centre of the universe can merely claim that ur interpretation is wrong. why wasnt this great book LUCID enough to show which interpretation is right?

* to show who's who... there are false prophets and there is a true messenger of God...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no its YOU who doesnt get it. miracle=magic=i KNOW it cant be explained but ill still claim that it just HAPPENED, and ill give this sort of nonsense a respectable name which ill claim refers to a completely different phenomenon from causality even though its a thinly veiled attempt to hide the fact that i cant explain it or make sense of it in the only REAL way that exists {i.e. logic/science}.

* to make your long story short, miracles cannot be explained... just admit i am right... so much ego... 😛

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so again, by admitting MIRACLES your admitting that u lose the argument.

* 😱 you just said miracles do happen and it cannot be explained... who lost the argument then? 🙄

Sado22 Restricted

I'll give you that. yet, I'd have to say I don't think that it makes it possible for a 9 year old to be psychologically or physically ready for sex.

yeah, that's cool. i'm not even saying it shouldn't sound weird, just pointing out where people are missing the cultural aspect of it.

I wouldn't call Mohammad a pedophile though, as it was a cultural practice and not a sexual compulsion toward children that was behind the marriage. That he had so many other wives who weren't children should attest to that.

agreed.

leonheartmm Senior Member

Originally posted by Sado22
oh please. the moment you insult religion you know, without a doubt, that adherents to that religion will be offended. but you didn't stop there, and continue to one-up yourself by insulted prophets. a while back you (rightly) mentioned that bahnchud was extremely lewd as an insult but somehow you don't seem to have that kind of sensitivity when you speak to people of their religions, which is altogether much more closer to the hearts of the adherents than even blood relations.
don't play double standards game with me. we theists [b]invented double standards! 😂
and again, syaing you're acting foolish is not really an insult. i could always rephrase that as "you're a phucking (fill-in-the-blank)" and now that'd be insulting. and that's exactly why i didn't use it.
1) human body and mind has the ability to adapt to even the hardest of conditions. which is a fact.
2) people have matured, both mentally and physically, at different rates at different times and cultures because of the lifestyles and conditions. which is a fact.
3) the longer the time spent in hard conditions the more we get to adapt. what would be unsurvivable conditions for most people from any other part of the world at any other time period, was home to the semitic people for MILLENIAS.
4) girls were wed in those days at 8-10 years of age due because life expectancy was 30-40 years. its a fact. it doesn't mean pedophilia as we take it today and pedophila itself is subjective. which is also a fact.
think about it: Charlie Chaplain was 30 when he married his first wife who was 16 (and that was pretty common at the time). was that pedophilia? in japan even today 14 is a legal age for girls. now you can argue all your want for it or against it, but in that culture for whatever reason they consider a girl not only physically mature but emotionally mature to handle life. its their culture. but somehow, muhammed becomes a pedophile for marrying a nine year old in his culture fourteen centuries ago because at the tme a girl was considered just as mature and developed as a 14 year old girl is in Japan in the 21st century.
and lastly, i didn't say them not dying was the proof. the proof was that most girls were considered healthy and ready to give birth back then. same way people consider 14 year old girls mature enough in japan today. you see what you're missing?
CULTURAL CONTEXT.
no, you just dont (actually, refuse to) understand how great a role millenias of a particular life style plays in development of the human body and brain. period.
still, thank you for being civil with this post. i may not agree with you but arguments to me are ways to see how your views hold up against those of others. and a chance to learn new things. oh and i probably offended you with some of my comments, as well. my apologizies too.
~Sado [/B]

that is the adherants problem. if they are delusional enough to be unable to tell the difference between them and a philosophy or them and a human who lived over a millienia ago, then i cant help them. how can a person whose been dead for over a millenia be close to you? only through delusions i assume

1. can u adapt to living without air? no u cant

2. no, physical maturation depends on genes, enviornmental factors can force unnatural change but no1 can turn a 9 year old into a sexual human. its forced on them and it has consequences.

3. the more we learn to GET BY, it has nothing to do with age, you can me made to live in a desert if you were taken there at birth. but just like the semetic people, your mortality rate wud go up insanely, simply because your body wasnt meant to live in those conditions.

4. there may be grey areas in pedophelia, but sum1 over 40 marrying a nine year old is black and white. i dont care which age it was, pedphelia is pedophelia just like child abuse is child abuse.

japan is wrong for allowing it and it has a culture of pedophelia in its past. 16 year old is a gray area, 9 year old isnt, nuthing non pathological can make a sexual being out of a nine year old.

no they werent, norms=/= health. MEDICALLY its proven that 9 year old are NOT ready for sex or childbirth, stop debating this.

as for not understanding the role of age, im sorry, but u dont know what you are talking about. i understand evolution and genetics better than you. stop arguing about things u knot nothing about.

leonheartmm Senior Member

Originally posted by peejayd
* as i've said, experience >>> child psychology... and no, you are a stubborn person not knowing the limits, just generalizing...
http://raisinggreatkids.com/discipline.htm
* there is a very huge difference between hitting because of discipline, and hitting with no reason at all... stop your idiotic standard of raising kids, that would be your downfall in the end...
* you've proven NOTHING! you just said it was proven...
* because you don't believe in the power of God, Him taking the lives of infants seemed evil to you... but Jesus said:
"But Jesus said, Let the [b]little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14
* God gives life, and He can take it away... it's not evil...
* didn't man made it? can't you blame man instead? man has greed, man can also do wicked things... to answer your question, God made everything beautiful, it was man who ruined it...
* your science did not tell you circumcision makes human males healthier? cleaner? you sure are very knowledgeable...
* do you know having sexual intercourse without marriage or responsibility results? unwanted pregnancy, unprepared family life, and even results in having multiple sexual partners because you are not even committed to the one you're having sex with... and with multiple sexual partners result in various diseases...
* proves you know nothing about the teachings of Jesus... God is the Savior of both believers and non-believers, I Timothy 4:10...
* nope... you're pawned... 😛
* this is a technicality... pedophile is an act, it is somewhat weird to say it is a belief... i am on the positive side, and forcing someone into a negative is a blatant fallacy on your part...
* because you misunderstood Christianity in the Bible and refuse to accept that there are good things written in there...
* only confirms you know NOTHING about the book you're rejecting... and that's idiocy...
* how could you tell? you know nothing about it... 🙄
* there are passages in the Bible which are interpreted by other passages within the Bible... if people are just persevere and patient in reading it first before giving wrong interpretations, the outcome would have been better...
* to show who's who... there are false prophets and there is a true messenger of God...
* to make your long story short, miracles cannot be explained... just admit i am right... so much ego... 😛
* 😱 you just said miracles do happen and it cannot be explained... who lost the argument then? 🙄 [/B]

this post is full of hilarity.

i dont CARE what youve said, empericism and observation bot overwhelmingly support the fact that anecdotes<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<accepted/tested psychology {emperical research}. this also shows me that you know NUTHING WHATSOEVER about logic or science.

please dont give me a bullshit site, i cud just start posting links to racist websites, but that wudnt make racism right wud it? hitting is wrong, a violation of rights, and simply evil, stop blabbering and foaming.

ive given you object evidence and lots of it. thats called proof, either reply to it or shut up and concede

i dont care about your rationalisations. you refuse to hold gods by the morals you hold men. that becomes a copout then and you can simply say "it wasnt evi" when KILLING INNOCENT CHILDREN wud be a textbook example of an evil act. it was evil, and u fail to prove otherwise.

god made man and all things that go with him, he also did acts to men and to his sentient creation which were evil, so no, god made evil and made innocents to be put in it to suffer from it and be corrupted by it. i see no reasonable reply from u on this.

MY science???? 😆 . there is only THE science and it tells me that circumcision has historically been practices so that children will feel less of an urge to masturbate which is owing to the fact that the skin of the genitals with the greatest number of sensitive nerve endings is removed, which leads to less sexual pleasure on top of other complications like the penis being unable to reach proper erection due to skin stretching and the sensitie glans becoming caratenised due to there being no protective foreskin. its a myth that it keeps you cleaner, if washed well, there are no problems of hygiene with an uncircumcised penis. this shows me that u get all urt information from relegius propagandist sources.

your confusing adultery with fornication. u can fornicate and be commited to one sexual partner. and in that great rant you fail to justify why its PUNISHABLE. {not to mention, showing rampant ignorance of birth control or the fact that single parents can raise psychologically sound children. and 70% of the AIDS in africa is spread INSIDE marriage genius}. things CAN be bad for u and ull suffer the consequences but what the HECK does punishing you on top of it do for you. how is THAT justified. as i said, EVIL.

bull. then why does hell exist? 😛

lmao, at you claiming to pwn any1

its not a technicality. its a flaw in your argument. pedophelic JUSTIFICATION is a philosophy of many pedophiles. you dont respect it. hence proving that not all philosophies deserve respect. i.e. i see no reason to respect yours

false claim. falsified many times in the past few days already

nope, its disproven and i have posted why with material from me and other to which you are unable to reply. ur argument remains circular

nope i know enough about it as i know enough about ur delusions. u r unable to reply again.

false. why do so many sects and so many internal arguments still exist then? thats direct evidence against ur claim.

that doesnt justify its lack of lucidity now does it. {your fond of changing the subtext and not answering questions}

miracles cant be explained because they dont EXIST!

read above. its a god of gaps argument.

Sado22 Restricted

that is the adherants problem. if they are delusional enough to be unable to tell the difference between them and a philosophy or them and a human who lived over a millienia ago, then i cant help them. how can a person whose been dead for over a millenia be close to you? only through delusions i assume

no, its not. you being rude has nothing to do with their belief. you just need to get you act together. period. and the fact that you insist that no one can love someone who died 1000 years before them shows how close minded you are when it comes to religion. heck, you're missing out on the fundamentals here 😂

1. can u adapt to living without air? no u cant

air is vital for survival and is not a variable. social conditions are variables. so are life styles. fail.

2. no, physical maturation depends on genes, enviornmental factors can force unnatural change but no1 can turn a 9 year old into a sexual human. its forced on them and it has consequences.

you answered it yourself: genes
unnatural from todays standards and from another cultural point of view. at the tme it was the norm.

3. the more we learn to GET BY, it has nothing to do with age, you can me made to live in a desert if you were taken there at birth. but just like the semetic people, your mortality rate wud go up insanely, simply because your body wasnt meant to live in those conditions.

provided I am an outsider to that culture. just because i was taken there as a baby doesn't make me used to it. but living there for 1000's of years, however, does. BIG DIFFERENCE. same way arabs have serious troubles when they go to switzerland and other cold places because after thousands of years of living in the desert life, there bodies aren't used to that kind of cold. and another example: the native indians were practically destroyed when they were introduced to alcohol by the settlers. why? because after millenias living an alcohol-free life, there system had extremely weak defenses against it.
once again, you show a complete failure to understand "life styles".

4. there may be grey areas in pedophelia, but sum1 over 40 marrying a nine year old is black and white. i dont care which age it was, pedphelia is pedophelia just like child abuse is child abuse.

no. its not pedophilia because:
1) he had other wives
2) people in his culture married girls at the age
more fail.

japan is wrong for allowing it and it has a culture of pedophelia in its past. 16 year old is a gray area, 9 year old isnt, nuthing non pathological can make a sexual being out of a nine year old.

so now you decide what pedophilia is? got news for you: entire nations and cultures don't base their ideas of right and wrong on the opinions of an opinionated, spiteful, ex-muslim, 21 year old who takes himself too seriously.

no they werent, norms=/= health. MEDICALLY its proven that 9 year old are NOT ready for sex or childbirth, stop debating this.

medically proven today to not work on the bodies of girls today. not back then. understand that things were different 14 centuries ago.

i understand evolution and genetics better than you. stop arguing about things u knot nothing about.

i doubt it unless you prove it. just cuz you visit wiki doesn't make you an expert on the subject anymore than it does me. you're the guy drawing an analogy between human adaptibility to social changes and the dependence of life on oxygen.

~Sado

Phantom Zone Junior Member

Originally posted by Sado22

first, read the paragraph above, carefully.

Sorry mate I dont think I need to.

Originally posted by Sado22

secondly, you seem to be talking like its a fact. do you have any proof that dolls were only made for little girls and relatively older girls didn't play with them?

Bruv I used the word adult I didnt use the word girl. I know that dolls werent made for adults because there are no examples of Aisha playing with dolls when she was an adult and any other of Mohammeds wives.

Originally posted by Sado22

comicbooks and videogames were invented for kids, were something that ONLY kids played with for the longest time until finally older people began picking them as well and now everyone's playing them. is that so impossible that an older girl couldn't play with dolls in a time when there was nothing for a woman to do besides marry, have children and cook?

Sorry mate I used the word adult.

Originally posted by Sado22

but, oh lord, aisha played with dolls so she MUST be immature and a naive little girl despite how girls at her age were maturing faster...to the pont that they were giving birth at the age of 10. you're [b]still thinking from 21st century prespectives.[/B]

No actually im not im looking at the culture of the arabs at that time and in those days adults didnt play with dolls children did.

Originally posted by Sado22

"dolls are for little girls, therefor aisha was a little girl, mentally and phsyically." you're whole argument is rooted in this claim, a claim that's a guess and based on what you see around you today. its not a historical fact unless i see evidence of it. also i need to see this hadith.

I was a muslim for six years and I heard about on numerous ocassions interestingy enough I had no problem finding it on the web, the thing is you say that you've done reaserach but never heard of it, sorry mate thats not impressive at all. In fact I could probably go into a mosque rioght now and somebody could probably tell me about it.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/073.sbt.html

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 73:
Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab)

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Originally posted by Sado22

also you totally ignored the whole bt with the comics and vg's. answer me this.
~Sado

No i didnt I already explained that its common practice in our culture for adults to play computer games and read comics....or alot of adults do, its not common practice for adult to play with dolls in arab times.

leonheartmm Senior Member

Originally posted by Sado22
no, its not. you being rude has nothing to do with their belief. you just need to get you act together. period. and the fact that you insist that no one can love someone who died 1000 years before them shows how close minded you are when it comes to religion. heck, you're missing out on the fundamentals here 😂
air is vital for survival and is not a variable. social conditions are variables. so are life styles. fail.
you answered it yourself: genes
unnatural from todays standards and from another cultural point of view. at the tme it was the norm.
provided I am an outsider to that culture. just because i was taken there as a baby doesn't make me used to it. but living there for 1000's of years, however, does. BIG DIFFERENCE. same way arabs have serious troubles when they go to switzerland and other cold places because after thousands of years of living in the desert life, there bodies aren't used to that kind of cold. and another example: the native indians were practically destroyed when they were introduced to alcohol by the settlers. why? because after millenias living an alcohol-free life, there system had extremely weak defenses against it.
once again, you show a complete failure to understand "life styles".
no. its not pedophilia because:
1) he had other wives
2) people in his culture married girls at the age
more fail.
so now [b]you decide what pedophilia is? got news for you: entire nations and cultures don't base their ideas of right and wrong on the opinions of an opinionated, spiteful, ex-muslim, 21 year old who takes himself too seriously.
medically proven today to not work on the bodies of girls today. not back then. understand that things were different 14 centuries ago.
i doubt it unless you prove it. just cuz you visit wiki doesn't make you an expert on the subject anymore than it does me. you're the guy drawing an analogy between human adaptibility to social changes and the dependence of life on oxygen.
~Sado [/B]

the fundamentals are stupid, thats whats proven.

so you accept that there are things humans cant adapt to. cool.

u dont understand genetics. major changes in sexual maturation dont coome about in 1.5 millenium, looking at the selective pressures.

this is not due to genes, this is due to conditioning and nurture. what you are referring to is presence of anitibodies and memory cells in the immune system, different ball game from genetics and sexual maturation.

culture doesnt matter, married people who take advantage of 9 year olds are still pedophiles. muhammad was a pedophile.

i dont, medicine and tested psychology does. 9 year olds are not sexual beings.

9 year olds werent sexual beings 1400 years ago, if u understood genetics and sexual pressures, ud know this.

i have an undergrad knowledge of genetics.

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by leonheartmm

this is not due to genes, this is due to conditioning and nurture. what you are referring to is presence of anitibodies and memory cells in the immune system, different ball game from genetics and sexual maturation.

Mind if I ask what you were addressing here? I looked at the quoted post, but I just couldn't think of where antibodies and memory cells fit in.