I'm a fan of fiction and decided to one day as a child to undertake disassembling this tale.
I reckon Adam and Eve were just animals that existed in the purity of bestial awareness. They were one with nature until they could make their own choices on a level that it could be written or conversed.
The second they were ashamed of their "nakedness" they become separated from the purity of nature. Not necessarily a bad thing, being separated from paradise. But a venture forward.
The Devil as far as I'm concerned, one of God's favored angels deciding to rebel against his reign is a beautiful eventuality and analogy.
Lucifer rebelled with many angels against God when God told the angels that they must love the physical beings with "free will" and that understandably enraged them.
Why love such lowly faulty beings when God had perfect beings already?
But the creation of the Physical Plane after God's creation of a "perfect plan" and the creatures that would inhabit it was inescapable and inevitable. It makes sense that a perfect angel would be angered by its own father's intent to allow the same amount of love onto such lowly creatures as itself. And the war happened.
Whether we perceive God forcing those angels into a pocket dimension to harness the disdain and existence of such creatures as cruel is up to the individual.
I always found these tales to be fascinating. And broke it down to...
"You can't have the good without the bad."
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
This indicates that Jesus had no choice.
If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.
This then begs the question.
What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?
Only an insane God. That’s who.
The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.
One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.
Regards
DL
Strange question!
God have granted "freedom" to all of his (biological) creations; just observe the wild-life to figure this out. However, "human being" can make the best out of this "freedom" due to being equipped with excellent brain. God have created us (humans) to test us; granted use the opportunity to figure out the "truth" ourselves.
To claim that people have invented God as a controlling tool is a logical fallacy because people (can) control other people through their own power and influence. Their are some people in history who have even went as far as to equate themselves with God.
Fact is that people are always in search of truth. Human's infatuation with God never dies for a good reason; the most recent example being searching for what is dubbed as "the God particle" through one of the biggest (or the biggest) scientific experiments ever conducted thus far.
It makes sense to "play safe" by being a believer. Rational thinking is that we aren't all-knowing and that we should be cautious about our actions and choices; if "surprises" are to be expected after-death, why take chances? Atheists argue that they are the most rational people in existence; IMO, these people are naïve; pretend to know it all; and not playing safe. Atheists have restricted their perceptions to their surroundings and value self-gratification above all.
People create and/or experiment; same is true for God. Their is wisdom in the saying that God has created human in his image; this doesn't implies that "human being" looks like God but rather "human being" is capable of doing wonders; can create and/or experiment and vice versa. These acts can make it possible for humans to better understand the wisdom and power of God then all other biological life-forms. This is arguably the main purpose behind our creation.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Strange question!God have granted "freedom" to all of his (biological) creations; just observe the wild-life to figure this out. However, "human being" can make the best out of this "freedom" due to being equipped with excellent brain. God have created us (humans) to test us; granted use the opportunity to figure out the "truth" ourselves.
To claim that people have invented God as a controlling tool is a logical fallacy because people (can) control other people through their own power and influence. Their are some people in history who have even went as far as to equate themselves with God.
Fact is that people are always in search of truth. Human's infatuation with God never dies for a good reason; the most recent example being searching for what is dubbed as "the God particle" through one of the biggest (or the biggest) scientific experiments ever conducted thus far.
It makes sense to "play safe" by being a believer. Rational thinking is that we aren't all-knowing and that we should be cautious about our actions and choices; if "surprises" are to be expected after-death, why take chances? Atheists argue that they are the most rational people in existence; IMO, these people are naïve; pretend to know it all; and not playing safe. Atheists have restricted their perceptions to their surroundings and value self-gratification above all.
People create and/or experiment; same is true for God. Their is wisdom in the saying that God has created human in his image; this doesn't implies that "human being" looks like God but rather "human being" is capable of doing wonders; can create and/or experiment and vice versa. These acts can make it possible for humans to better understand the wisdom and power of God then all other biological life-forms. This is arguably the main purpose behind our creation.
Interesting take on God giving us freedom of choice and autonomy.
If we, through A & E have autonomy and freedom to make choices, then explain to us how it is that the moment A & E did their free will and not God’s will, when they ate of the tree of knowledge, God threw a fit and murdered them by neglect by not feeding them from the tree of life.
Today, such a piss poor parent would be jailed for murder, yet I bet you somehow love your genocidal son murdering God that much more for his murders.
That is called Stockholm syndrome and you should have that looked at.
It has given you a double standard of morality and that will send you to hell as you call evil good.
BTW. The Jews who wrote that myth saw it as man’s elevation and not the fall that Christianity chose for the $$$$$$$.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To claim that people have invented God as a controlling tool is a logical fallacy because people (can) control other people through their own power and influence.
That's not a logical fallacy, in fact its the opposite.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fact is that people are always in search of truth. Human's infatuation with God never dies for a good reason; the most recent example being searching for what is dubbed as "the God particle" through one of the biggest (or the biggest) scientific experiments ever conducted thus far.
The Higgs boson has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It makes sense to "play safe" by being a believer.
How does a person choose what to believe? Could you wake up one morning believing that Vishnu is lord and the next day wake up certain that Odin is the true creator? Belief isn't an act of will.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Rational thinking is that we aren't all-knowing and that we should be cautious about our actions and choices; if "surprises" are to be expected after-death, why take chances?
Belief and non-belief are equally risky in this system. Remember, you've already accepted ignorance. There are innumerable gods who might punish us for anything. There are infinite gods who will reward atheism and infinite gods who will reward theism.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI'm too lazy to go into the mechanics of the free will dellusion right now, but not, just no.
[B]Strange question!God have granted "freedom" to all of his (biological) creations; just observe the wild-life to figure this out. However, "human being" can make the best out of this "freedom" due to being equipped with excellent brain. God have created us (humans) to test us; granted use the opportunity to figure out the "truth" ourselves.
To claim that people have invented God as a controlling tool is a logical fallacy because people (can) control other people through their own power and influence. Their are some people in history who have even went as far as to equate themselves with God.there is nothing fallacious about it. the fact that power can be exercised over others by means other than religious indoctrination does not mean that religion is not a very effective ideological tool for controlling people's behavior. it most certainly does not prove anything about the origins of religion one way or another.
"the god damned particle", as it was called because no one could find it, was dubbed the god particle by idiots ignoring its whimsical backstory in an atempt to sensationalize it. it has nothing to do with god.
Fact is that people are always in search of truth. Human's infatuation with God never dies for a good reason; the most recent example being searching for what is dubbed as "the God particle" through one of the biggest (or the biggest) scientific experiments ever conducted thus far.
and so you believe in god out of fear it might exist, which is pathetic, but what's worse, you ignore, as sym pointed out, that there are countless different concepts of deities. what if you are worhipping the wrong one and it's angry at you for it?
It makes sense to "play safe" by being a believer. Rational thinking is that we aren't all-knowing and that we should be cautious about our actions and choices; if "surprises" are to be expected after-death, why take chances? Atheists argue that they are the most rational people in existence; IMO, these people are naïve; pretend to know it all; and not playing safe. Atheists have restricted their perceptions to their surroundings and value self-gratification above all.
yeah, all the more evidence that god is a fabrication upon which we impose our own traits and limitations such as volition, creativity and curiosity.
People create and/or experiment; same is true for God. Their is wisdom in the saying that God has created human in his image; this doesn't implies that "human being" looks like God but rather "human being" is capable of doing wonders; can create and/or experiment and vice versa. These acts can make it possible for humans to better understand the wisdom and power of God then all other biological life-forms. This is arguably the main purpose behind our creation.
Originally posted by atv2
It would be too boring living alone. Life would be too easy if it had total obedience and God would still be alone because it would still be him and not the individual. He gave us free will so we could choose a life of our own regardless of the consequences.
I agree that we have free will but disagree with the foolish notion that it is given to us by some genocidal son murdering God.
Any free will that we could all possibly have was annulled when your immoral fool of a God gave Satan control of our minds with his God given ability to deceive the whole world.
This is irrefutable if you are a literal reader.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Greatest I am
I agree that we have free will but disagree with the foolish notion that it is given to us by some genocidal son murdering God.Any free will that we could all possibly have was annulled when your immoral fool of a God gave Satan control of our minds with his God given ability to deceive the whole world.
This is irrefutable if you are a literal reader.
Regards
DL
Free will, Regardless of the consequences.
Originally posted by atv2
Free will, Regardless of the consequences.
...Then again there was the demon possessed child he had no choice it was the demon that controlled him until Jesus came by and delivered him.
Sin keeps us from life.
Our sins keep us from living the life that God intended for us. None of us could make it on our own we need Christ to give us that direction.
Originally posted by atv2
...Then again there was the demon possessed child he had no choice it was the demon that controlled him until Jesus came by and delivered him.Sin keeps us from life.
Our sins keep us from living the life that God intended for us. None of us could make it on our own we need Christ to give us that direction.
and even that is our choice.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Interesting take on God giving us freedom of choice and autonomy.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
If we, through A & E have autonomy and freedom to make choices, then explain to us how it is that the moment A & E did their free will and not God’s will, when they ate of the tree of knowledge, God threw a fit and murdered them by neglect by not feeding them from the tree of life.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Today, such a piss poor parent would be jailed for murder, yet I bet you somehow love your genocidal son murdering God that much more for his murders.
It is foolish to judge God harshly. Humans misuse their free will; God judges in response.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
That is called Stockholm syndrome and you should have that looked at.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
It has given you a double standard of morality and that will send you to hell as you call evil good.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
BTW. The Jews who wrote that myth saw it as man’s elevation and not the fall that Christianity chose for the $$$$$$$.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's not a logical fallacy, in fact its the opposite.
If somebody invented God as a controlling tool, as per your argument, then who was this guy? Any specific name in mind?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The Higgs boson has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
God have interacted with humans through his agents (e.g. prophets) in different eras/ages to let them know about his existence (true nature) and guide them to the right path-ideal code of conduct for livelihood for humans-from time to time. However, this kind of interaction have ended many centuries ago. Still, this doesn't means that God have abandoned us. God have given us sufficient information concerning him and us till date. God have planned a special event for mankind; Judgment Day (en event during which all humans will be judged for their deeds and dealt with accordingly). This would be the event when man's tenure on Earth will come to end. As apparent from history of life on Earth; many species face extinction so mankind is not likely exempt from this fate in Earth.
Now it is up to the people to accept or reject God's revelations and the clock to judgment day is ticking. Not surprisingly, people continue to stray from the right path and many have switched to Atheism. It is hinted in the Holy Quran that a large chunk of people will be shitting in their pants during the Judgment Day (details below).
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How does a person choose what to believe? Could you wake up one morning believing that Vishnu is lord and the next day wake up certain that Odin is the true creator? Belief isn't an act of will.
It makes sense to believe in the existence of one true God (a supremely powerful and intelligent entity which controls everything it created). The Universe represents a gigantic system which is flawless and/or highly successful in its operation. Something must be controlling and stabilizing such a big system. Without such a controlling body, the Universe may go haywire. Just consider the example of a nation; a nation have a controlling body within it (i.e. Federal Government). Without such controlling body, a nation will descend in to state of chaos and anarchy. Same logic may apply to a gigantic system such as the Universe.
The entity have interacted with mankind in different eras via its agents (people chosen from within us who are dubbed as prophets); every prophet gave the same message: their is only one God. Such interaction with mankind have stopped for a while but it will happen again in the future during an event known as the Judgment Day. During this event, the entity known as God will reveal itself to the mankind and non-believers will be dumbstruck but it will be too late for them.
Learn more about Judgment Day event from here: http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/quran/this-verse/457089-the-quran-on-the-judgment-day.html
You stated that belief is not an act of will; it actually is. God have given all humans the opportunity to believe in him. Choice is ours; this is the ultimate test.
You get one life; don't waste it and/or take massive risk in it.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Belief and non-belief are equally risky in this system. Remember, you've already accepted ignorance. There are innumerable gods who might punish us for anything. There are infinite gods who will reward atheism and infinite gods who will reward theism.
Multiple Gods cannot co-exist and mankind cannot serve them all.