Originally posted by Darth Martin
Ok, you make some interesting points. But I think you have me confused on some listings. Indiana Jones in the same category as Batman and Rorshach?
In a word yes. We ruitinely see Indy dumped in the middle of 6-10 guys and fight his way out. While some of it is shear physical toughness. Which could be chalked up to conditioning which some would call a martial skill in its self. Much of it is actually martial prowess. In the opening of "Temple" while sufering the effect of a lethal poison Indy fights off a gang of martial artists, In "Crystal Skull" a nearly 60 Indy jumps into truck/jeep thing with something like 5-6 KGB/Spetsnaz in it and takes them all out in short order. Watching Indy fights one notices he is no mere brawler he demonstrates an awarness of holds, strikes, throws, and grappling. He seems to know the basics of at least western boxing, wrestling,Judo(or similiar art), and perhaps others. We have seen him reverse holds, use throws, knees, kicks etc. So yes in a straight up punch up sense I'd put him on even ground with Rorschach. Infact I'd say he displayed more skill then Rorschach though only marginaly so. Batman may be marginaly more skilled, but its hard to tell from the fights in "Begins" and TDK as they sucked something bad.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Although I do agree that Ra's Al Ghul is more skilled and superior to Batman h2h-wise. I think that's an underrated fact around here. Kudos for noticing that!
I'd say its mostly due to Neeson being an actual fighter. His skill and confidence with it shows. Even if its not his style. Being a trained boxer(Junior champion of Irland in his youth) and fencer.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
I think most characters are either going to be powered or faster and stronger then regular people.
Yes they are, but I was trying to remove artificial powers when I judged skill.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
I highly disagree with you on the placement of Morpheus, Trinity, and Smith.
Well it depends whether you want to base it on academic knowledge or practical skill. Because I could read book with pictures of forms, moves, and Kata of a dozen different martial arts and memerize them, but it doesn't mean I'm skilled. It means I'm knowledgeable. Knowing a move and being able to use a move are 2 different things. As are knowing a move and being able to do it. I mean no matter how long a stare at picture or watch a video of some one doing a spinning back jump kick or some such. I'm still not going to be able to do it myself even if I am fully aware of the physics behind it. This is where the Matrix folks are at as demonstrated by the Neo vs Smith out of the Matrix fight. They have great academic knowledge, but little in the way of practical skill. Well in comparison anyhow they are not awfull fighters. Just not great. Here is the fight scene in question
Originally posted by Darth Martin
I think your third tier list should be split in to two. Some of those chracters shouldn't be there.
I agree. I just don't know where to split it.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Thanks for atleast sharing your opinion in detail. 👆
Your welcome.
I still disagree on the Indy being with Rorshach and Batman. In 'Begins, Batman took out atleast a dozen armed thugs. He also took on a S.W.A.T. team in TDK. Doubt Indy could pull those off.
We must use the Matrix characters with there abilities. For example in the dojo fight scene with Neo, besides Morpheus jumping 20 feet in the air I doubt he was using "Focus". I think he was going casually and his skill and knowledge allowed him to di that. Once he fought Smith, who is faster and stronger than him in every way, he got his ass handed to him.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'm not saying we account there powers. But we account for the scenes shown in the Matrix, not in the real world.
Why would we do that? That is like calling somebody a skilled boxer because they rule at Wii boxing.
In essence the Matrix characters are gamers with cheat codes. Not super skilled fighter. Infact they seem to retain little of the in Matrix knowledge out side of the Matrix.
'Cause you'd think if they retained it. Their entire military would be super commando's(Cammando program) and they'd be throwing nukes around like crazy(build a nuke program), but their not which makes one question how much skill and knowledge they retain from down loaded programs. Their is after all only so much a human mind can hold, but while jacked in they can retrieve info straight from the Matrix. Much like any of us could use the internet to seem much smarter.
Originally posted by NightstickWell said.
Why would we do that? That is like calling somebody a skilled boxer because they rule at Wii boxing.In essence the Matrix characters are gamers with cheat codes. Not super skilled fighter. Infact they seem to retain little of the in Matrix knowledge out side of the Matrix.
'Cause you'd think if they retained it. Their entire military would be super commando's(Cammando program) and they'd be throwing nukes around like crazy(build a nuke program), but their not which makes one question how much skill and knowledge they retain from down loaded programs. Their is after all only so much a human mind can hold, but while jacked in they can retrieve info straight from the Matrix. Much like any of us could use the internet to seem much smarter.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Because that's what we use in the forum. I haven't seen one thread that we've put a matrix character in a fight without use of there program knowledge.
Just because it's what has been done. Doesn't mean it is what should be done.
Would you jump off a bridge. Just because every one else was? 🙂
Originally posted by Darth Martin
That's not my point.We should look at the skill shown by Morpheus, Neo, and Trinity from there fight scenes insider the Matrix.
What is your point then. Aside from peer pressure you have come up with no reason to use in Matrix(a freaking video game) skill. Instead of their displayed real life practical skill. As a judge for thir martial arts skill.
Originally posted by Placidity
Um where is this argument going?We are talking about the Neo when he is in the Matrix. It's very simple to understand what we are trying to discuss. There's no need to go all "smart" on this. Yes we get it, Neo in real life is a shit head. No one cares...
If that's what you are discussing then you didn't read the OP which asked us to rank characters on martial arts skill rather then their aptitude at a video game.