Originally posted by Placidity
Yes I'm not talking about power to weight ratio strength though (Bruce Lee would've been a good example as well for you). I'm talking about raw strength, like Olympic weight lifters.
Which has little to do with how hard you punch. Which is my original point.
Although i've no doubt that Spidey could pick up and launch Ozy across the room far easier than Ozy did to the comedian.
To be fair though, we're not talking about a guy who can just squat 800lbs or lift 600lbs over his head, we're talking about a guy who's strong enough to break train tracks with his leg and stop a train with extreme effort, as two examples.
George Foreman wasn't the fastest of punchers, yet his raw strength would destroy other boxers. So punching power isn't solely dependant on speed, considering there's at least some measure existant, which Spider-man has.
Originally posted by RobtardGeorge Foreman wasn't the fastest of punchers, yet his raw strength would destroy other boxers. So punching power isn't solely dependant on speed, considering there's at least some measure existant, which Spider-man has.
Relative to other boxers perhaps...Relative to you and me, however, is a different story.
Originally posted by PlacidityAlso, if Parker can only punch at normal speeds and obviously has normal mass, how did he send Flash Thompson flying about 10 meters back?
Analyzing fictional movie fights with in depth science doesn't work.
Because he does indeed have some level of super-speed, despite DDM's insistence of 'Doc Ock, Doc Ock'. We see it in the Flash fight scene, when the camera slows down, his ability to jump great distances and as you mentioned, him punching Flash and sending him flying back.
Not taking into account obvious PIS while applying science doesn't work.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nice backhanded insult.
That wasn't in insult in anyway shape or form. Remember my comment about you reading into things like a women?
You're doing just that. 😐
If you think saying that you're not as smart as the smartest man on Earth is insulting, I have no idea how to make it less....insutling.
vI would wager that if you set an IQ test for me then against two characters who wouldnt even be able to show up for the test, due to their non existance, I would come out on top, thank you, also so would Butterbean.[/B][/QUOTE]
Dude, stop missing the point, would ya?
By your logic, I could also beat up Dr. Manhatten, no problem.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
You might by this logic be also smarter than Jenine Melnitz from Ghostbusters, and she knew how to operate a phone and wore glasses, she seemed pretty smart forsomeone who didnt exist, and man you would ownedz her lol.. 😖hifty:
Dude, were you just bustin' my balls the whole time? I sure hope you were.
If you genuenly thought it was insulting to say you are not as smart as fictional characters are portrayed as being, you take this way too seriously.
You and I put together would not be as smart as Veidt is potrayed as.
Does that make it seem less of an insult?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
As mentioned before The marble thing was Comic book movie PIS exaggeration.
Comedian (Human) head would be splattered all over that marble by rights.
You cannot throw out feats because it doesn't suite you.
We cannot throw out Peter Parker's feat against Sandman as he should have splattered when Sandman was creating an earthquak with his body. Parker's face took damage from that bomb.
Not only should his suite have torn, his skin should have busted wide open, from the impact of sandman's punches.
Yet, it didn't.
Placidity acuses me of trolling...yet, it's obvious I am actually being fair and sticking to the rules.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Spiderman however has literally got superhuman abilities, being superhuman.. Advantage spidey. 🙂
And the movie proves Veidt is superhuman as well. 🙂
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No way would Ozymandias be able to deal with short range high speed web attacks or break free of the webbing, mosty likely.
Actaully, his "high speed webbing" doesn't even approach bullet speed. 😐
Originally posted by jaden101
The whole premise of Peter's abilities is what the spider bite did to his DNA and thus his body structure. The only explanation for why his bones don't snap like twigs and his muscles don't tear in half when he's stopping the train is extra durability through extra mass/density.I don't think speed is a greater factor...It's a law of physics. If you double the mass of an object you double its kinetic energy...If you double the speed of an object you quadruple its kinetic energy.
This is what I've been telling these people for ...12 pages?
Parker simply isn't generating enough speed in his punches to punch through a head.
Sure, I would say he's strong enough to break a face.
Originally posted by Placidity
And also, strength of muscles depend on cross section of muscle fibres. So in order for him to lift however many times, his muscles should probably be bigger than his torso.
No it doesn't.
You obviously don't know much about muscles and strength.
See Dr. Jose Antonio's early to mid 90s work on hyperplasia and hypertrophy.
By your logic, body builders should be the strongest people on Earth, and they aren't. Sure, they are strong.
Originally posted by Robtard
Because he does indeed have some level of super-speed, despite DDM's insistence of 'Doc Ock, Doc Ock'. We see it in the Flash fight scene, when the camera slows down, his ability to jump great distances and as you mentioned, him punching Flash and sending him flying back.Not taking into account obvious PIS while applying science doesn't work.
No, he does not have "superspeed" in the film. People fight, in the real world, faster than that, in choreographed fights, even before they speed them up.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, he does not have "superspeed" in the film. People fight, in the real world, faster than that, in choreographed fights, even before they speed them up.
I'm sorry, normal people don't move so fast that punches seem molasses slow to them, from their heightened perspective.
Originally posted by dadudemonParker simply isn't generating enough speed in his punches to punch through a head.
Sure, I would say he's strong enough to break a face.
The going through a skull was dropped (by me) pages and pages ago. Nightstick and Placidity who you've called troll were arguing able the smashing aspect, not face penetration, iirc.
Good, glad you agree and this is what would happen to Veidt, his face would be broken as would his arms, should be try to block a blow.
Originally posted by Robtard
The going through a skull was dropped (by me) pages and pages ago. Nightstick and Placidity who you've called troll were arguing able the smashing aspect, not face penetration, iirc.
K.
But Spiderman still cannot touch Ozy... so it's a moot point.
Originally posted by Robtard
Good, glad you agree and this is what would happen to Veidt, his face would be broken as would his arms, should be try to block a blow.
"But Spiderman still cannot touch Ozy... so it's a moot point."
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm sorry, normal people don't move so fast that punches seem molasses slow to them, from their heightened perspective.
K.
"But Spiderman still cannot touch Ozy... so it's a moot point."
If you can prove that Spiderman moved as fast as Ozy, then I'll concede that point.
Since there is only evidence that Ozy moved nearly as fast as a bullet, then we can only conclude that Ozy is much faster.
Originally posted by Robtard
Comedian tagged Ozy a few times in the opening fight, those punches were not faster than bullets.
I am unsure if he actually hit him. I think it was grappling with Ozy turning it around rather quickly. I have to watch the film, now, because Darth Says that, in the film, it was never mentioned that Veidt fought young Comedian...so I could watch that portion as well.
Also, The Comedian is superhuman, without a doubt. 🙂
Originally posted by Robtard
As much as you ignore that Flash-fight scene, Parker is clearly moving at heightened speeds.
Since humans can do the same thing (which they had to, for the film) it cannot qualify as superhuman.
What was superhuman was his ability to doge the fists.
Originally posted by Robtard
Ergo, Spider-man will connect and Ozymandias will go down.
Since I destroyed your premise, your conclusion is not legit.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I am unsure if he actually hit him. I think it was grappling with Ozy turning it around rather quickly. I have to watch the film, now, because Darth Says that, in the film, it was never mentioned that Veidt fought young Comedian...so I could watch that portion as well.Also, The Comedian is superhuman, without a doubt. 🙂
Since humans can do the same thing (which they had to, for the film) it cannot qualify as superhuman.
What was superhuman was his ability to doge the fists.
Since I destroyed your premise, your conclusion is not legit.
Yet Comedian isn't super-fast, it's not seen nor is it implied.
No, humans can not perceive the world where a punch that takes 1 second is seen in ultra slow-mo from their perspective because they're moving/reacting at super-speeds, now you're trolling, as you don't factually believe this.
Claiming "destruction" doesn't mean shit, considering what's seen on screen proves you wrong, sorry buddy.
Anyhow, I'm done playing your games in here. Best of luck.
Originally posted by Robtard
Yet Comedian isn't super-fast, it's not seen nor is it implied.
However, it can be implied that Ozy allowed Comedian to do what he did simply to turn it around against him, just like he did in the film. 😐
Originally posted by Robtard
No, humans can not perceive the world where a punch that takes 1 second is seen in ultra slow-mo from their perspective because they're moving/reacting at super-speeds, now you're trolling, as you don't factually believe this.
You can call it what you want.
Spiderman still moved at human speeds. There's not reason to mince words.
And, it's not like you're trying to convince me that Spiderman doesn't have super human perception. I've stated that several times already.
And, no, you'd be the one who's trolling by continuing this line of reasoning. I've clearly trashed your idea of Parker fighting at super-human speeds.
You have not and cannot provide evidence of Parker fighting at super human speeds because it didn't happen.
However, we do have clear evidence of Ozy moving near bullet speeds.
Near bullet speeds >>>>> not quite as fast as some martial artists.
Again, what was superhuman about what Parker did was dodge the fists with his uber perception. Still, that is questionable as superhuman as there are probably some out there who could make a random highschool senior look just as, if not more so, foolish as Parker made Flash.
If you guys want to get down to it, Ozy could dodge Spiderman's onslaught just as easy as he dodged Flash's onslaught.
He would make Spiderman look just as foolish.
For everyone to continue to deny that after more than enough evidence and reasoning was presented, is foolish.
Originally posted by Robtard
Claiming "destruction" doesn't mean shit, considering what's seen on screen proves you wrong, sorry buddy.
I don't understand this point. Seriously.
You'll have to expand it with specific references to scenes in both Spiderman and Watchmen.
Originally posted by Robtard
Anyhow, I'm done playing your games in here. Best of luck.
Games shmames.
It would appear that everytime someone tries to TROLL this damn thread, they do so with by:
1. Using false information.
2. Claiming incorrectly that Spiderman is faster than Ozy in some way.
3. Claiming that Spiderman could beat down Ozy with logic as simple as "it's friggin pidowman, duuuude! He would like...break his face n'stuff.
4. Claim that Ozy is slower or is less than what he is.
5. Call me a troll when I destroy their argument.
The other reason that Viedt appeared to move so fast in anticipation was just that.
He knew the people he fought well. (Despite being such a goon as to forget that his method of Killing Manhattan doesnt work, which we may be able to chop up to the time honoured tale of the smartass not actually being as smart as he thinks he is' motiff...)
I reckon his unfamiliarity with Spidey as a mental/physical opponent would be just another nail in Veidt's coffin.
I mean, if Spidey hung about too long, or became predictable then Veidty may see a pattern to learn.
But 'til then, advantage Spiderman, again.
Strength wise and durability wise, Spidey wins, easily. This doesn't need explaining.
As for reacting, Spidey is well above Ozy thanks to the Spidey sense. Some arguments in this thread are that spidey didn't even use the Spider sense that much in the movies. That is bullshit. Just because the sense wasn't shown to be in use in the movies, it doesn't mean he's not using it. The sense isn't something that you just turn on and off. It happens, every time Spidey is about to be attacked. That's how it works. Otherwise, its nothing but pure luck that the sense warned him when Otto threw the car.
For Ozy's so called bullet timing, from what I remember, he only dodged the first bullet legitimately. For the rest, he just run behind a bunch of people to obscure the assassins view of him and used the people as human shields until he reached the assassin who for all we know, isn't even a highly trained assassin and is just some thug off the street Ozy paid to try to kill him. He sure didn't do anything professional that entire time. He stood there, and shot off a few rounds. Thats it. Nothing amazing.
Another thing to note is that during this little slo-mo part, Ozy himself was moving kind of slow too (unlike spidey who still moved in real time during his slo-mo), and the bullets where still fast as ****. In my opinion, thats because Ozy's super human brain allows him to process a situation faster than the humans, so he was able to percept what was happening faster than his body could react to it. That's why things probably move in slo-motion for him.
Spidey dodged a bullet himself in the first film by backflipping. He didn't run out of the way or duck. He back flipped to avoid it. That puts Spidey above Ozy in speed/reaction for me.
As for the bullet catching, you've got to remember that Ozy in the movie was covered from the neck down in armor. This means his bullet catch feet wasn't really all that valid, because to catch a bullet, you'd have to catch it a certain way, or it would just punch straight through your hand. It's likely that Ozy just put his hand in the way and the armor stopped the bullet. It's still amazing he was able to react to it at point blank like that, but if it wasn't for the armor, he would have been f*cked.
At best, Ozy is equal to Spidey in reaction, but everything else is well above him (besides intelligence of course)
Originally posted by Arachnid1I remember that, when he ran behind the people and used them as shields, didnt seem very super heroish to me.For Ozy's so called bullet timing, from what I remember, he only dodged the first bullet legitimately. For the rest, he just run behind a bunch of people to obscure the assassins view of him and used the people as human shields until he reached the assassin who for all we know, isn't even a highly trained assassin and is just some thug off the street Ozy paid to try to kill him. He sure didn't do anything professional that entire time. He stood there, and shot off a few rounds. Thats it. Nothing amazing.