Ozymandias vs. Spiderman.

Originally posted by Robtard
If he's faster, it's not by leaps and bounds.

No. The speed difference his huge. I didn't realize it when I created the thread, or until the last page, really.

When he moves when the bullet is coming at him, his speed is well into the super-human zone. I didn't really think about this until then. But, think about it: he is moving at a speed that is closely relative to the speed of the bullet. We're talking 1000+ miles per hour.

That's....absurd.

That would also explain how Ozy can catch a bullet. (That part is obvious)

If I REALLY wanted to get pedantic, the force generation requirement for Ozy to move that fast is insane. He would be much stronger than Spiderman in order for him to be able to accelerate that fast.

Originally posted by Robtard
Unless he's got prep and is setting some trap, he's not going to out think the Spider-man punch or kick that will crush his face and break his bones, so he'll be the smartest dead-guy in the fight.

I at first thought that Ozy would lose based on his durability and strength. I don't believe that anymore. Ozy is strong enough to hurt Spidey. He is faster. Much faster.

The only question is: fatigue.

Spiderman, though not shown in the films, has superhuman endurance. We didn't see anything in the movies to indicate that he was becoming tired, or petered out. We didn't see anything for Ozy, did we?

I would have to watch all 4 films again.

Ozy is supposed to be peak human in the comic. But that's even wrong, based on what humans are capable of.

We might even be able to throw endurance out the window on this one, to. It goes to Ozy, still.

How did this thread get so huge? Ozy gets whupped, screen feats or not. One punch from Spiderman should kill him.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
How did this thread get so huge? Ozy gets whupped, screen feats or not. One punch from Spiderman should kill him.

Comic versus, with prep, Ozy still wins.

Comic impromptu versus....Spiderman wins.

Movie versus, Ozy wins, regardless of prep.

That's how it ended up being this long. Not everyone thinks this is an easy Spiderman victory. Did you read my above post? Ozy is much faster than Spiderman.

Edit- And if we wanted to get technical, we could argue with physics that Ozy is much stronger the spider. lol.

Per the original scenario, Ozy has no prep and Spiderman has plenty of space to do battle and hiding places to recover from, which he won't need. Now I don't know what shenanigans went on in this thread, but I'm not going to read it.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
How did this thread get so huge? Ozy gets whupped, screen feats or not. One punch from Spiderman should kill him.

Yes, we all know this except for DDM.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, we all know this except for DDM.

You didn't read my last post.

The more I think about it, the stronger the case comes for Ozy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He sure can. Did you watch the film. 🙂

And, I'm not your pal, friend.

See above. I changed my mind because I was tired of catering to the Spiderman fans.

So once again. Because your reading comprehension seems rather low at the moment. Your your trolling.

Just so that we are clear. You are saying it takes less force to destroy metal and concrete then busting up a human flesh and bone?

Your option are pretty limited as far as answers go either yes or no. If your answer is yes then please explain why it is....never mind if your answer is yes then you are either liar or an idiot. If your answer is not. Then you are pretty much admitting you have been trolling for most of this thread. Pick an answer yes or no.

As for you inertia schtick. As people have asked already and you have failed to answer are you actual trying to say that regardless of the amount of force applied to a hit it doesn't matter if it isn't of sufficient speed? I believe the examples used earlier. That you never fully addressed were Superman and Hulk. So lets ask again. If Superman hit a person with as much strength as he could muster, but didn't use super speed(which he doesn't half the time), could he put his fist threw their head? Again its a simple question. With a simple yes or no answer. So no need to dance around it or spout importent sounding words like "Inertia" or "strawman".

Originally posted by dadudemon

Baseless conclusion. And, stop trolling. 😐

I didn't read it, because it was most likely rubbish. Period.

Baseless conclusion can still be right. If you asked some one with no math skills 10+10 and they answered 20. Would the fact that it was a baseless conclusion invalidate the caccuracy of the answer? Again simple yes or no question.

Originally posted by dadudemon

And, your above point still fails. 😐

I've already told the Spiderman fans why it fails. I will not go over again.

Oh hows that? You gonna try the Peter was in slow mow thing. Don't. Here's the deal Parker perceived the world so slow that a second in real time lasted a minute for him. End of story.

Originally posted by dadudemon

No more trolling.

Why are you talking to yourself?

Originally posted by dadudemon

Hardness.

And considering the damage its sustained and its destructive potential. Just how hard do you think Parkers fist is?

And, this is a strawman argument.

We are not arguing about whether spiderman can bust open someone face, crack a skull, etc.

It was whether or not he could punch a hole through someone's head.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Considering that a human weilding a small hammer and more then likely a large rock can completley shatter a human skull. Yeah, it not only matters, but is a damn good indecator that Spidey could do it if he felt the inclination.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Already been covered. Feel free to read the whole thread. 😐

Considering you have failed to effectively respond to a single argument/point made against you this entire thread. No it hasn't.

On another note whether or not Spidey can punch threw a human head. Is in the long run rather trivial. As he is obviously stronger by a fair margin and more durable and more agile and faster and has better reaction time. The only thing that Ozy has going for him is skill and maybe brains. I say maybe because his whole solution was idiotic to its core, but i'll give him brains and skill. Not that its enough to secure a victory, but hey its something.

Just for giggles lets review the one scene that. That could even put Ozy on a competative level with Spidey. Yes I speak of the bullet "catch". Lets have look..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNj4UjzbHkQ

On review one notes that as Ozy and Silke meet eyes before the camera pans back to Silk for the last time not only is she lowering the gun, but Ozy is moving. In other words it quite possible he moved before or while she was firing and two that she was no longer aiming at his head, but rather his hand or mid section. That were bullet proof meaning that even if he didn't fully evade/catch the bullet he'd be fine and could tumble down the stairs and make a show of it. This and the general eye contact and nodding back and forth between Silk and Ozy has led some to believe Silk was in on Ozy's plan. Given the evidence it is entirely plausible. However even if she wasn't Ozy was in motion and her aim was lowered meaning not only was he not straight up bullet timing, but he may not have caught the bullet at all he may have simpley pulled it off his chest in the tumble. Add that to the fact that he faught at no where near those speeds and that Nite-Owl and the Comedian were both able to land a move suggests that the so called bullet "catch" was staged either by Ozy and Silk or by Ozy himself. Neither should be to hard for a man of his vaunted intelligence.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And if we wanted to get technical, we could argue with physics that Ozy is much stronger the spider.

Spider-Man has two or three strength feats I can thnk of that Veidt has no shot at coming near.

Spider-Man wins.........

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Anybody can argue bullshit. 🙄

Spider-Man has two or three strength feats I can thnk of that Veidt has no shot at coming near.

Spider-Man wins.........

Originally posted by omgchos
Spider-man had a hodgepodge of feats that cancel each other out. He lifts a whole frikin (what looked like) steel framed wall over his head, but couldn't for the life of him knock out doctor octopus. So which is it?

It's called Plot Induced Stupidity.

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

Originally posted by Nightstick
So once again. Because your reading comprehension seems rather low at the moment. Your your trolling.

Makes a pretty weak case for someone's comprehension when you criticize someone else despite using the wrong "you're" not once, but twice.

Just so that we are clear. You are saying it takes less force to destroy metal and concrete then busting up a human flesh and bone?

However, the compressional strength of bone is greater than that of even the best reinforced concrete, and the tensile strength approaches that of reinforced concrete.

From

http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus6/ep_development.html

So in some circumstances, yes.

Spider-Man has two or three strength feats I can thnk of that Veidt has no shot at coming near.

His strength feats weren't explosive strength which is what you need to exert powerful punches. It's very different to the type of strength required for lifting heavy weights. From what you see in the spiderman films he has large amounts of strength for lifting and stopping heavy objects...This is mostly due to increased bone density and muscle resitance as opposed to explosive strength which, on the basis of his feats, he doesn't seem to have much greater than a strong human.

Clearly he does have some elevated explosive strength though given that he can jump higher than the best normal human.

Spider-man had a hodgepodge of feats that cancel each other out. He lifts a whole frikin (what looked like) steel framed wall over his head, but couldn't for the life of him knock out doctor octopus. So which is it?

As stated above, it's a different type of strength required. An example would be that a strongman can lift more than a trained boxer but a trained boxer will be able to exert more explosive strength and have a more powerful punch (due to plyometric training)

Then I'm confused how people end up with broken jaws, cheek bones and eye-sockets from being punched by regular [strong] people, if the only way to break bone and skin is by punching with super-speed.

Sadako broke a man's jaw with a punch. He's a willy bastard, but I don't think he has any measure of super-speed, he's also probably a little bit weaker than Spider-man.

Originally posted by Robtard
Then I'm confused how people end up with broken jaws, cheek bones and eye-sockets from being punched by regular [strong] people, if the only way to break bone and skin is by punching with super-speed.

Sadako broke a man's jaw with a punch. He's a willy bastard, but I don't think he has any measure of super-speed, he's also probably a little bit weaker than Spider-man.

We're not discussing whether you can break someone's jaw though. We're talking about this idea of punching clean through someone's head.

Plenty people have smashed concrete blocks...Can't say i've ever heard of someone punching through someone else though.

Besides a lot of skin breakages from punches are a result of damage from inside out...i.e the skin being ruptured by rubbing against the bone and being damaged from the inside out (like what happens when boxers get cuts) or because someone has a ring on causing physical damage because of it.

Bones also don't have a huge amount of torsional strength (meaning they can't twist very much before breaking) and so tend to break through that motion.

Indeed. You may train Hard and you may bang fast/hard, but you're still human..

A little data on how those breaks you speak of are possible.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=5538765E-E7F2-99DF-393E0A0CD7821157

"Back on our May 2nd episode, we talked about the brain damage suffered even by amateur boxers who wear headgear. Now imagine going into the ring bareheaded against a professional boxer, a world champion no less. Researchers at the University of Manchester in England were curious about just how much force a top boxer can generate with a punch. So they enlisted local boxer Ricky Hatton, an undefeated 28 year old light welterweight and welterweight world champ. And they had him hit a 30 kilogram punching bag with sensors attached.

The results should make any spectators who figure they could last a while in the ring with a pro think again. Because Ricky Hatton, who’s nickname is The Hitman, generated a force of about 400 kilograms. An average person with no boxing training can generate only about one tenth that much force with a punch.

Slow motion video found that Hatton could typically generate punch speeds of 25 miles per hour, with one blow reaching 32 mph. The best punch speed that one of the researchers could achieve was about 15 miles per hour."

Hands and faces are crushed under such impact.

I still think Spiderman takes this. Can't see Ozymandias outdoing Spiderman's damage soak.

Originally posted by omgchos
Spider-man had a hodgepodge of feats that cancel each other out. He lifts a whole frikin (what looked like) steel framed wall over his head, but couldn't for the life of him knock out doctor octopus. So which is it?

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

It would seem that both AC and omgchos (edit) AND Jaden are the only ones getting it. (Darth Martin, you have done well to be ojective about this as well, instead of being a blatant Spiderman fanboy. I've been accused of being a troll, just because I refuse to accept bullshit fanboyism for Spiderman. WTH is up with that?)

Originally posted by jaden101
Makes a pretty weak case for someone's comprehension when you criticize someone else despite using the wrong "you're" not once, but twice.

From

http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus6/ep_development.html

So in some circumstances, yes.

His strength feats weren't explosive strength which is what you need to exert powerful punches. It's very different to the type of strength required for lifting heavy weights. From what you see in the spiderman films he has large amounts of strength for lifting and stopping heavy objects...This is mostly due to increased bone density and muscle resitance as opposed to explosive strength which, on the basis of his feats, he doesn't seem to have much greater than a strong human.

Clearly he does have some elevated explosive strength though given that he can jump higher than the best normal human.

As stated above, it's a different type of strength required. An example would be that a strongman can lift more than a trained boxer but a trained boxer will be able to exert more explosive strength and have a more powerful punch (due to plyometric training)

Originally posted by jaden101
We're not discussing whether you can break someone's jaw though. We're talking about this idea of punching clean through someone's head.

Plenty people have smashed concrete blocks...Can't say i've ever heard of someone punching through someone else though.

Besides a lot of skin breakages from punches are a result of damage from inside out...i.e the skin being ruptured by rubbing against the bone and being damaged from the inside out (like what happens when boxers get cuts) or because someone has a ring on causing physical damage because of it.

Bones also don't have a huge amount of torsional strength (meaning they can't twist very much before breaking) and so tend to break through that motion.

Jaden.

I love you.

😐

I really will buy you a drink when I visit. 😐

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Indeed. You may train Hard and you may bang fast/hard, but you're still human..

A little data on how those breaks you speak of are possible.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=5538765E-E7F2-99DF-393E0A0CD7821157

"Back on our May 2nd episode, we talked about the brain damage suffered even by amateur boxers who wear headgear. Now imagine going into the ring bareheaded against a professional boxer, a world champion no less. Researchers at the University of Manchester in England were curious about just how much force a top boxer can generate with a punch. So they enlisted local boxer Ricky Hatton, an undefeated 28 year old light welterweight and welterweight world champ. And they had him hit a 30 kilogram punching bag with sensors attached.

The results should make any spectators who figure they could last a while in the ring with a pro think again. Because Ricky Hatton, who’s nickname is The Hitman, generated a force of about 400 kilograms. An average person with no boxing training can generate only about one tenth that much force with a punch.

Slow motion video found that Hatton could typically generate punch speeds of 25 miles per hour, with one blow reaching 32 mph. The best punch speed that one of the researchers could achieve was about 15 miles per hour."

Hands and faces are crushed under such impact.

I still think Spiderman takes this. Can't see Ozymandias outdoing Spiderman's damage soak.

But, that's good though. I am glad you're actually debating this maturely and with logic instead of what others have done with the "nuh uhhhh!" B.S.

My response is:

How can Spiderman knock out Ozy when he can't even touch him? (That is such a Matrix-y question. Man, I'm awesome. 😆 )

But Spidey would be able to touch him at some point, and thats the bit where Ozy mandias would be killed.

Ozymandias is fast. No argument there. But Spidey's reaction speed'll be able to deal with that, then its super human spidey strength/power/durability time.

It'd be like Me Vs Butterbean.
(Which'd probably be similar to the case of Butterbean Vs Johnny Knoxville lolz)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But Spidey would be able to touch him at some point, and thats the bit where Ozy mandias would be killed.

On what grounds?

Did the Comedian ever get a hit on Ozy? I culd have sworn he did.

Breaking a slab of continual slab of Marble is a greater feat than breakiung the same thickness of concrete.

Breaking it with someone's head and actually crushing the marble into powder with that head is even greater.

Solid object breaking ability goes to Ozy.

Spiderman should watch out against Ozy. Agreed?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ozymandias is fast. No argument there. But Spidey's reaction speed'll be able to deal with that, then its super human spidey strength/power/durability time.

Sort of. We are almost in agreement. We know that Ozy can move much faster than Spiderman. MUCH faster. We are talking almost Flash speed. We don't know if he can run around that fast, but we know he can make short bursts of speed that fast. Since there are NO sustained speed feats from Ozy, we canNOT give him Flash level speed.

That said, we do know Ozy's reaction time is faster than anything Spiderman shows, even with Spider-sense. The only thing Spiderman has got on Ozy is reacting when Ozy tries a sneak attack, something that Ozy would most likely do anyway.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
It'd be like Me Vs Butterbean.
(Which'd probably be similar to the case of Butterbean Vs Johnny Knoxville lolz)

I like this comparison. Well done.

You are probably faster than butterbean...but...butterbean could break your effin' face. 😆 This works well.

However, neither you nor Butterbean come close to being nearly as intelligent as the fictional chacacters Ozy and Spiderman. Spiderman would be considered smart, in a room full of geniuses. Ozy would make a room full of Geniuses look stupid. I'd like to say that Spiderman didn't use just brawn in his fights in the films...but I'm drawing a blank.

All of Ozy's fights were brains. Even his brawl with Owl and Ror. He even predicted, correctly so, that they'd show up at his door step.

Anyway, I'm getting off track.

The difference in speed between you and Butterbean isn't even close to the difference in speed between Spiderman and Ozy. Ozy is much faster. The difference in strength between you and butterbean is also much closer than between Ozy and Spiderman. But, they balance each other out, so that's why your comparison works really well to convey your point, imo. Ozy could probably knock Spiderman out...

Still, if Ozy had a blade, Spiderman is toast. Toast, I tell yas. TOAST!

Originally posted by jaden101
We're not discussing whether you can break someone's jaw though. We're talking about this idea of punching clean through someone's head.

In Nightsticks defense, I was the one initially arguing that and did drop it. I do stick to Spider-man breaking his face with a punch, ie cutting skin, cracking or breaking bone. Which is more of what I think Nightstick is arguing.

With the counter argument being that Spider-man can't punch hard at all, not even hard enough to knock-out Ozy, because he didn't do much to Ocks face, which is clear PIS, if we take in his strength feats. If I'm strong enough to support tons and tons, my human speed punch will still be packing more than just normal human force, far greater in fact.

As far as Ozy knocking out Spider-man with a punch or kick, Spider-man has survived far greater blows without fizzing out, his durability is up there.