Originally posted by Philosophía
In Apokolips Now! Darkseid specifically stated that Superman is stronger than usual. Seeing his proven dynamic powerlevel dependent on his mental state, I don't see what exactly is the problem in saying that when fighting Darkseid, Superman ups his powerlevel compared to what he is usually portrayed.
He says he has grown strong... probably because Darkseid used to backhand his ass all over the place. And yes, Superman has grown strong.
Oh, proven?
Or Superman doesn't hold back. He already has the strength of 'Small'seid, add in speed, HV, intelligence, fighting skills, hell even freeze breath played a part, and I don't see how it's impossible for 'normal' Supes. And no, I'm not saying that CM can beat him, because he doesn't use/have the tactics that Superman used/uses (deflected OE, and using speed to hit it back at him, etc), but that doesn't mean that this makes Billy far below Superman, or that Billy can never hope to match him serious. It just means that he can't beat an opponent that Superman can.
Adam on the other hand, would rape Darkseid's face.
It seems more like Superman just doesn't holding back...
Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes limiting his powerlevel to the point where he does it on a subconscious level and depending on the mindset he is in, he can go from struggling against an opponent to completly destroying the same kind of opponents en-masse, like in Our Worlds at War, where not only did he outperform the whole Justice League (Martian "He's stronger than the whole league combined!' Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern among them) but he outperformed his previous performance aswell once he changed his mentality.
You're using sketchy examples to speculate he ups his power completely...
Well no shit he can do more damage than them. He's more powerful than them. The only way they can = the damage he could, is if they actually did combine... not just by fighting as a team.
And could that be that he was not holding back anymore? It makes it pretty clear that he's not holding back at all/gained Doomsday's view, it doesn't say his powers suddenly increased.
Originally posted by Philosophía
We were talking about how Superman has been shown fluctuate his powerlevel depending on his mindset, and thus Darkseid's performance against Superman shouldn't be held against him. You come in and go all 'Why is everybody using only high showings for Superman ?! LOOK, Black Adam has high showings too!!11 Why ignore them ?!' and you're telling me that I'm missing the point ? Lulz.
Because I don't feel he can just think his way above 'peers' of his? Therefore, they equal high showings to me (assuming the feats are way out of CM/BA's league). IE, everyone has high showings. They don't decide a thread.
Also, this is what you previously said:
"Also, lulz at you complaining that we use high showings when you form an argument using Black Adam's highest ones."
Which means you missed the point of what I said, and are now changing your meaning of it. You started off laughing at a supposed hypocrisy, but have since changed it to me missing the point. Fact is, the two don't intertwine, even if I did miss the point of something.
That is, if we really want to argue about shit...
Originally posted by Philosophía
You don't have to agree with anything. It is stated that Superman fluctuates his powerlevel in accordance with his mental state, and shown in combat when he vastly outperforms his previous performance & the performance of his supposed peers in combat when he goes into an all-out mindset. Period.
Schlong?
No it hasn't. The only thing stated you brought an example of, was when he entered the Doomsday mind of violence. And it cays he cuts loose/gains confidence, not that by just a thought he can totally up his power levels. He wasn't holding back, he wasn't worried about fighting with the weaker Mongul, he wasn't trying to find weaknesses, and he wasn't still under the 'tutelage' of Mongul, he was just trying to destroy them.
Peers? Who, Martian Manhunter, and WW? It should be obvious by now that MM isn't above Superman, besides what he himself says, and WW... well, we've seen what Superman can do to her.
In a nutshell, I think of non-holding back Supes as being the one who is 'equal' to non-holding back Billy/Majestic (although Superman admittedly is a lot more well rounded than Billy). uh dunno, that's just how I've always seen it.
When 'Mindset' Superman is confirmed with proof, then I'll accept him as being able to SS up past his peers with thoughts.
Probably missing something...