Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How does it kill my point?Based on powersets and people fighting at peak levels and throwing out PIS and CIS you don't think Supes beats people he probably shouldn't in comics? Really? You think Superman being DC's poster boy and hero of the story has nothing to do with him coming out on top and beating people he probably shouldn't? This kills my whole point and this isn't the case with Superman and DC? Please, then enlighten me on how this isn't true and how it must be how little I read of superman?
you're missing the grand point of all of it. superman isn't like OTHER posterboys. his powerset is an integral part of why he's able to do what he does. he's not wolverine. he genuinely is that powerful. he might have the power because he's that popular a character, but the power is still there. it's part of his powerset, and has been for quite a while.
Originally posted by carver9
Superman admitted twice that he cant stand up to Captain Marvel. Superman admitted that he couldnt even move adam out of the city and that he wasnt even holding back and this was against a adam that didnt throw not one punch, just tossed superman around.
no, not one punch. TWO. it's not nearly what you're saying it is, so quit it. he wasn't holding back his strength the rest of his powers weren't mentioned. stop bloody twisting things.
or, pray tell, do you mean a different fight?
Originally posted by carver9
Also, didnt eclipso say that Captain Marvel is more powerful than Supes.
no, he didn't, he wanted a magical vessel to inhabit. also, eclipso is weakened by sunlight. what empowers superman? sunlight.
superman admitted cap had an advantage toe to toe because of his magic. he didn't say cap was better or stronger or more powerful. if he fights the kryptonite man toe to toe, the kryptonite man has an advantage because he radiates kryptonite, not because he's stronger or faster.
and if you try to bring up the jla arc with the imps as evidence of supes being one shotted by cap, i swear to god i'll ban you myself.
Originally posted by -Pr-
and if you try to bring up the jla arc with the imps as evidence of supes being one shotted by cap, i swear to god i'll ban you myself.
PC superman punching BA with his "best blow"
http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=ac023_marvelduo1.jpg#
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=39432_marvelduo2.jpg#
http://img138.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=2a9d2_marvelduo3.jpg#
kudos to prep man for scans
Originally posted by ankur29
PC superman punching BA with his "best blow"http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=ac023_marvelduo1.jpg#
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=39432_marvelduo2.jpg#
http://img138.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=2a9d2_marvelduo3.jpg#
kudos to prep man for scan
yeah, that's just not black adam. that's Pre-crisis black adam as well. someone who is a lot more powerful than current adam.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yet, Superman beats Flash in a race.
What Flash are we talking about? Post Crisis his never beaten the Flash, and it's shown that Wally West is on another level. Also, apparently back in the day, Barry Allen held back because it was charity or some sort if we count it as an indication of Pre-Crisis events.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What Flash are we talking about? Post Crisis his never beaten the Flash, and it's shown that Wally West is on another level. Also, apparently back in the day, Barry Allen held back because it was charity or some sort if we count it as an indication of Pre-Crisis events.
Superman beat Flash in a race. All-Star Superman vs Flash #5. pretty cool issue, too.
Originally posted by ankur29
isn't that cannon?PC superman punching BA with his "best blow"
http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=ac023_marvelduo1.jpg#
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=39432_marvelduo2.jpg#
http://img138.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=2a9d2_marvelduo3.jpg#
kudos to prep man for scans
it's not a one shot. its a cheap shot.
also, pre crisis doesn't apply.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
hystericalLMAO! I died when I read this.
Beware everyone, don't bring up low showings of Superman, against Pr, or he'll BAN you!
😆
i'm just tired of the cycle repeating over and over
though, being cheap shotted while not trying to fight back isn't really a low feat...
Heh. Remember, you started splitting this into different quotes.
Originally posted by Blanket
He says he has grown strong... probably because Darkseid used to backhand his ass all over the place. And yes, Superman has grown strong.Oh, proven?
Or Superman doesn't hold back. He already has the strength of 'Small'seid, add in speed, HV, intelligence, fighting skills, hell even freeze breath played a part, and I don't see how it's impossible for 'normal' Supes. And no, I'm not saying that CM can beat him, because he doesn't use/have the tactics that Superman used/uses (deflected OE, and using speed to hit it back at him, etc), but that doesn't mean that this makes Billy far below Superman, or that Billy can never hope to match him serious. It just means that he can't beat an opponent that Superman can.
Adam on the other hand, would rape Darkseid's face.It seems more like Superman just doesn't holding back..
Actually no, he didn't use to backhand his ass all over the place. You're probably reffering to the years-later published Superman Confidential series (I guess the author came from the future and wrote the 'You're stronger today' dialogue with that in mind ermm) but it's in a questionable continuity, or perhaps Cosmic Odyssey (if you do, then lulz) which is irrelevant either way because they had another fight less than two years from the Apokolips Now! fight where Darkseid certainly didn't 'slap his ass away'. Good strawman argument btw. Keep going. 👆
Darkseid: "Damn you. You have grown strong..but I'll stop this nonsense with the Omega Effect, which is termination itself"
Superman: "Not today, Darkseid.."
Darkseid: "..can't..beat me..I'm--stronger.."
Superman: "No, today I'm stronger!".
Originally posted by Blanket
You're using sketchy examples to speculate he ups his power completely...Well no shit he can do more damage than them. He's more powerful than them. The only way they can = the damage he could, is if they actually did combine... not just by fighting as a team.
And could that be that he was not holding back anymore? It makes it pretty clear that he's not holding back at all/gained Doomsday's view, it doesn't say his powers suddenly increased.
Sketchy examples ? Heh.
How is using a person directly stated to be as strong as Superman and/or as strong as the whole Justice League combined, by Superman himself no less, and him being completly outperformed by Superman in battle even when he has GL, Flash and Wonder Woman alongside him, a sketchy example ?
And, you know, I didn't underline that part so that you can throw a 'maybe he wasn't holding back' line.
Hmm.. I guess this is a Superman 'holding back' to you, eh?
No, how about this one ? In here, it certainly seems as if he is holding back! [csm]dur]/csm]
Yeah, apparently it doesn't seem like Superman was in any kind of 'holding back' position when confronting them. Why are these example extremly relevant ? Because, as the scans show, in the first example he is only able to stun him while in the second scan, even while in a non-holding back state he barely manages to beat one. Now, what happens when he enters in a 'war' mentality and confronts the Imperiex Probes en-masse, alongside Doomsday ?
He completly destroys them. Not one, multiple and with ease. The last page is the most important one as it flat-out explains how much things have changed once he let go of all the emotion, once he completly changed his mindset.
"It has become primal. It has become second nature. Time has lost all meaning here in the depths of space. How long have they been making this trek ? Hours ? Days ? He has no ideea. Nor does he care, as this alliance with one of his deadliest adversaries has put him at war with his own conscience this being a war he can not afford to fight at the moment, he has put those numbing thoughts aside, numbing himself into the necessary state of violence. The destruction of so many probes has demonstrated an important lesson to him... that in war, emotion can hinder the ultimate goal.. to win."
And the most important part:
"As his partner is truly destruction personified, so he has become. And from the transformation..success. Far from the humanity he holds in such high measure, where the probes seemed far more deadly, he has cut loose. Subsequently the probes have offered little resistence. [...]So he plows ahead, confident in his power. Confident in his mindset and his decisions. Ready to stare into the abyss without blinking for a moment. He thinks of Lois. Of his parents. But only for a moment. Such thoughts are dangerous.
Even more interesting is the fact that once he enters this mindset, the narration makes it quite clear that he could could engage Doomsday. "Every fiber in his body screams out to destroy this ..engine of pure destruction. He could make that choice right now, and who could blame him?" But he doesn't do it because he was necessary in order to fight against Imperiex.
In case this doesn't click, I'll expand on it. Superman went from barely being able to stun/defeat a probe with high difficulty to taking them en masse once he changes his mindset, along side Doomsday (Doomsday Wars Doomsday, a story where Doomsday was easily withstanding/beating the Justice League, Orion alongside them) while at the same time he is being implied to be able to engage and defeat him.
Originally posted by -Pr-
it's not a one shot. its a cheap shot.also, pre crisis doesn't apply.
You know this how?
Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm just tired of the cycle repeating over and over
Gatorade can solve your short term energy requirements
Originally posted by -Pr-
though, being cheap shotted while not trying to fight back isn't really a low feat...
Your fanboy is showing
(continued)
In fact, in the same period, it is clearly shown that Superman limits his powerlevel:
"I..almost couldn't stop myself. I..I could have killed you. I could feel it in me, my powers surging.
*Looks up the word surging*
Oh snapz.
"I can't see that far with Earth's atmosphere blocking my view.
You could. You choose not to."
In fact, Superman has been shown to become completly human due to his mind only, both before this story, when Darkseid brainwashed him but, once he told him that he is his son he became powered-up and confronted Orion and after, in Up, Up and Away where he was blocking his powers from manifesting.
But yes Bran, it's obvious that Superman can't increase/decrease his powerlevel and performance by modifying his mindset. dur
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hold on, are you trying to argue, that Superman, can increase, his strength by willing it. Trying to argue that it's a legit power. Like say the Hulks?And are you arguing this for Kryptonian's in general, or only Superman?
I'm arguing that Superman's powerlevel fluctuates depending on his mindset, so much that he can go from having high difficulties against one person (Imperiex Probes) to completly plowing through them en-masse and being suggested as capable of defeating a foe previously capable of easily defeating him and the Justice League (Doomsday). This goes in line with what was earlier established in the arc that Superman limits himself and that he can make his power 'surge' in the heat of the battle and that Superman subconsciously regulates his powerlevel. It's not so much as 'willing it' as it is to him changing his mindset and having his powerlevel and battle performance increase.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I'm arguing that Superman's powerlevel fluctuates depending on his mindset, so much that he can go from having high difficulties against one person (Imperiex Probes) to completly plowing through them en-masse and being suggested as capable of defeating a foe previously capable of easily defeating him and the Justice League (Doomsday). This goes in line with what was earlier established in the arc that Superman limits himself and that he can make his power 'surge' in the heat of the battle and that Superman subconsciously regulates his powerlevel. It's not so much as 'willing it' as it is to him changing his mindset and having his powerlevel and battle performance increase.
So basically, the level of power Superman utilizes depends on his mindset. Meaning he limits himself. So in a sense, he simply stops holding back?
I mean, Superman being able to increase his power directly, by getting angrier, or having a more brutal attitude, isn't very.........logical for a lack of a better word.
Simply wondering what your pushing for.
