Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWould you say, at normal levels Thor and Hulk are more powerful, or less powerful, by feats, than they were back then?
Superman's power has grown more during the period of time. That of course can be attributed to the fact, that after the crisis, he was a hell of a lot weaker, so of course he grew a lot more powerful.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusInteresting.
By merging with the Imps, they got ten new abilities and so on. Nothing special. It was made quite clear his power grew exponentially. That's clear. They never showed his power being unlimited or anything of the sort. A lot of characters can be a lot more powerful potentially, but potential is just speculation in a lot of situations.Unlimited/Infinite, gets thrown around too much in comics. As far as unlimited power, I wouldn't classify any being as having that type of power, but the truly omnipotent beings. Meaning "The One Above All" and so on.
I apologize for all the questions, I'm trying to find where you stand on certain things.
Superman's history, and even his future, clearly show his power grows quickly, exponentially, and without any known end. That is the very definition of unlimited, imo.
Even currently, he can go from a sort of average top tier, to way beyond at the drop of a hat, as Phil was showing off earlier.
Originally posted by Juntai
Would you say, at normal levels Thor and Hulk are more powerful, or less powerful, by feats, than they were back then?
Well, from what I've read, they do have a lot of good and amazing feats from the more recent times, but I would say that their most craziest/powerful feats are generally from back in the day. Especially during the Silver Age and so on. They did the craziest shit back in those days.
Originally posted by Juntai
Interesting.I apologize for all the questions, I'm trying to find where you stand on certain things.
Superman's history, and even his future, clearly show his power grows quickly, exponentially, and without any known end. That is the very definition of unlimited, imo.
Even currently, he can go from a sort of average top tier, to way beyond at the drop of a hat, as Phil was showing off earlier.
It's all good.
It does grow exponentially but that's what happened to a lot of characters as time grew past the crisis. There was practically a no high end feat law as I recall back then. Characters like Superman, Flash and so on sky rocketed in power eventually.
His future? Superman Prime did grow exponentially in power, but he had until the 853rd century to do so. The fact that his power grew, without a defined limit does not indicate unlimited power. Hell, Superman Prime had no showings to even base his level of power from. Bad measuring stick or example in my opinion.
Change his level of power that drastically at the drop of a hat? That's untrue.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSo you would say that are less powerful, while Superman is more powerful?
Well, from what I've read, they do have a lot of good and amazing feats from the more recent times, but I would say that their most craziest/powerful feats are generally from back in the day. Especially during the Silver Age and so on. They did the craziest shit back in those days.
Interesting.
I guess that's why people often dig back to the 70s and 80s for feats to attempt match stuff Superman does every handful of issues.
Would you say these ancient showings have a great bearing on current depictions of the characters, or are they to be taken with a grain of salt like pre-Crisis stuff, which is also in continuity these days?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSure he does.
Change his level of power that drastically at the drop of a hat? That's untrue.
There's tons of examples, like the ones Phil showed. Superman going above and beyond the regular class he's put into, he just stops holding back.
Originally posted by Juntai
Orion couldn't beat Darkseid without Darkseid purposely losing to him.
Superman has defeated him on multiple counts.Superman doesn't beat Orion heads up, because he isn't outright trying to down him, because Orion is a good guy.
You see, in one of those scenarios, Orion and Superman are peers.
In the other, Superman steps it up to take on a superior foe.
Originally posted by JuntaiThe entire JLA got their asses handed to them, and Superman was just playing..? [DICK!]
Another example;JLA Classified 15.
The entire JLA is decimated, laying unconscious, and Superman alone stands up to fight more.
Alien: Are you read for more? (To Superman )
Supes: Actually, I think I'm ready to stop playing with you.
Alien: Playing? I've beaten you half to death.Supes: Not even close. I needed to measure your power and get a handle on what's really happening here. And that took time. So I just soaked up your punches while I worked it all out.
Supes: You see I'm not human. My eyes, for instance, work very diferently. There was a flicker on everything. All the surfaces in here, including yours, cycle 512 times a second. The others would never see that. But I do. Just as I can see and hear all the communications traffic moving around. Finding the frequencies took time.
Supes: I am a scientists son of the House of El. And I am a reporter. And while I may not be as quick at pattern recognition as my wife, I'm not completely stupid. Given time, I can find my way into any story. And this is just a story. Make-believe. You pushed your little stunt just a hair too far, and I saw through it.
Supes: You're strong. Your strategy programming is clever and complex. And you have absolutely no concept of the sanctity of organic life. (supes uses heat vision to burn off the aliens right arm)
Supes: All these things make you a powerful, frightening enemy. But I'm Superman.
These examples can be done almost quite literally all day.
Question for Juntai and Philo
So, it is your guys stance that Superman can and would beat Galactus, Tyrant, Arishem, Shuma Gorath, T&A, Thanos etc etc IF IF he decides to not hold back? Correct? I mean afterall, his power is unlimited and there is nothing SUPER DUPER MAN can't do when he changes his mindset..
When Superman beats Imperiex, Mandrakk or Any Monitor, Mageddon etc etc you don't think it has to do with him HAVING TO WIN BEING THE HERO and not some simple change in mindset. Sure, that can be plausible against his peers like Marvel, Adam etc etc where they are already close and Supes gets pissed and stomps. Cool. However, no amount of changing mindsets will allow The Saint Francis High School Football team to beat the Pittsburg Steelers. That is exactly what Superman is allowed to do in beating people he has no business beating.
I say Galactus, Tyrant, T&A etc etc all stomp Superman and stomp him hard. When Superman is put down at first which is what usually happens before he comes back to save the day(hmmm the tried and tested storyline again). Without PIS or CIS he would just be killed not simply KO'd and then the villian will go about doing his thing or into some disertation. All those peopel I named have the powersets to destroy Supes and kill him very quickly when fighting at their peaks. Yet, in a comic book setting we know that wouldn't happen and Supes would never be killed. You both for some reason discount that fact and just view it as well he's just that stong and just changed his mindset. No that is DC's way of getting him to overcome and save the day when really he should be destroyed by some of these guys in seconds.
If I put COIE Monitor against Supes and a ALL OUT, NON HOLDING BACK, UBER Supes you would give him the victory? When you've been arguing that you would yet I know if a vs thread was made you wouldn't. Wannna know why because you know Supes has no business even being in the same league as the Monitor. Yet, we all know who ended up winning that battle in the Comic Book. Point is, don't give me this ooo he just changes his mindset and that is how he's able to do these PIS things, while the villian has a bad case of CIS. Fact is he has no business beating some people he does and the reason he does IS because he's superman not because he simply changes his mindset. If that is your argument then I expect to see you give Supes the wins against all I listed even though I've seen you do the opposite in the past.
Originally posted by Enyalus
BA's magical lightning aside, he's still less versatile than Superman.And Superman, in a non-PIS, forum like setting, loses to DS anyway.
So...DS wins here, quite easily.
I agree totally. However, Eny you forgot Superman just has to change his mindset and he overcomes all with his Supa Powah!!
Originally posted by shiv
How does he win.
Omega beams BA couldn't dodge them even if he wanted, if Darkseid chose to make a maze trap with them like he did with Supes in Generations, stopping any kind of speedblitz attempt.
Omega Sanction. Teth Adam has no defense for the "life that is death". He had this before 52 which is way before FC.
Omega Effect - really, no one without a reality warping will should be able to stand up to the "total wipe-out", erasure from existence.
Originally posted by Allankles
Omega beams BA couldn't dodge them even if he wanted, if Darkseid chose to make a maze trap with them like he did with Supes in Generations, stopping any kind of speedblitz attempt.Omega Sanction. Teth Adam has no defense for the "life that is death". He had this before 52 which is way before FC.
Omega Effect - really, no one without a reality warping will should be able to stand up to the "total wipe-out", erasure from existence.
Allan I agree DS beats Adam and without much difficulty. I feel DS is too versatile and on another level with such powers. I feel BA only chance against DS is in a h2h only setting and even then.. The argument I think people have been having is that I feel BA gives supes all he can handle and can beats supes. Others feels supes walks through BA which is just ludicris.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiGo argue with Quanchi and Carver, they're closer to your mental level than you are to me.
Question for Juntai and PhiloSo, it is your guys stance that Superman can and would beat Galactus, Tyrant, Arishem, Shuma Gorath, T&A, Thanos etc etc IF IF he decides to not hold back? Correct? I mean afterall, his power is unlimited and there is nothing SUPER DUPER MAN can't do when he changes his mindset..
When Superman beats Imperiex, Mandrakk or Any Monitor, Mageddon etc etc you don't think it has to do with him HAVING TO WIN BEING THE HERO and not some simple change in mindset. Sure, that can be plausible against his peers like Marvel, Adam etc etc where they are already close and Supes gets pissed and stomps. Cool. However, no amount of changing mindsets will allow The Saint Francis High School Football team to beat the Pittsburg Steelers. That is exactly what Superman is allowed to do in beating people he has no business beating.
I say Galactus, Tyrant, T&A etc etc all stomp Superman and stomp him hard. When Superman is put down at first which is what usually happens before he comes back to save the day(hmmm the tried and tested storyline again). Without PIS or CIS he would just be killed not simply KO'd and then the villian will go about doing his thing or into some disertation. All those peopel I named have the powersets to destroy Supes and kill him very quickly when fighting at their peaks. Yet, in a comic book setting we know that wouldn't happen and Supes would never be killed. You both for some reason discount that fact and just view it as well he's just that stong and just changed his mindset. No that is DC's way of getting him to overcome and save the day when really he should be destroyed by some of these guys in seconds.
If I put COIE Monitor against Supes and a ALL OUT, NON HOLDING BACK, UBER Supes you would give him the victory? When you've been arguing that you would yet I know if a vs thread was made you wouldn't. Wannna know why because you know Supes has no business even being in the same league as the Monitor. Yet, we all know who ended up winning that battle in the Comic Book. Point is, don't give me this ooo he just changes his mindset and that is how he's able to do these PIS things, while the villian has a bad case of CIS. Fact is he has no business beating some people he does and the reason he does IS because he's superman not because he simply changes his mindset. If that is your argument then I expect to see you give Supes the wins against all I listed even though I've seen you do the opposite in the past.
Everything in your post is way out of left field and it's quite obvious everything in the thread either went over your head, or you ignored it because you wanted to try to compare Superman and Galactus, obviously because all the Superman facts talked about here made your penis shrink 3 sizes like the Grinch's heart and you needed to lash out because you can't actually dispute any of it.
Originally posted by Juntai
If somehow Surfer crushed Thanos quite convincingly the next say... 6 times they fought over the next 10 years, would you make a similar arguement?
Or would Surfer simply be.. . more powerful?
Superman doesn't share a similar powerset with DS. Most often when fighting Supes, DS conveniently forgets what he can do. I've titled it The Hulk Effect. 🙂
Your mental level haha. So, please explain this higher plane you have there Juntai. I'm dying to know how smart you are and how that has allowed you to accomplish x,y & z in life. Please, enlighten me because it certainly doesn't show in your posts & points thus far. You can't dispute anything I said, so again concession accepted. You want to hide behind "changing his mindset" to explain superman beating people he has no business beating. When the answer is simply, it's superman and he has to come out on top. As I said earlier, logic and common sense are key and that seems to be something your lacking. If you stand by your stance then I expect you to say in future threads.. Non holding back, changing his mindset supes beats Galactus, Arishem, Exitar, Any Monitor, Mandrakk etc etc. Afterall, all he has to do is "change his mindset" and he overcomes any foe. It's the unlimited Superpowa FTW!!!
Originally posted by Warlord
does anyone notice how DC tends to make its characters more powerful without any obvious upgrade (wonder woman for instance).I don't think it's only Supes. Almost every DC character gets more powerful after the depowerment of the crisis and without conveincing reason
You have a point. But Superman's power set does support the accumulation of power over time. It's been demonstrated on panel with KC Supes and regular Supes (KC being older).
And by possible future stories like DC 1 million, where current Superman has evolved into an even more powerful being ( the original Superman Prime), becoming the source of power for all the Superman's in the superman dynasty (including descendants like Superman 1 million).