Originally posted by Robtard
Parts of it look thicker, other parts don't.I've seen several clips of people being shot, really depends on the quality of body armour and the gun/ammo, sometimes nothing, sometimes they're bruise and knocked down/winded. It's one shot though, not sustained machine-gun fire.
Indeed. That's what that dude said in the vid. (The owner, PR, dude. WHoever he was) He said he couldn't continually shoot the same spot before it would be dangerous, but it was more than enough for one shot.
Originally posted by Robtard
His suit was a piece of body armour designed for the military, which he painted/modified. It's not a tank-suit.
Actually, I was thinking that that's exactly what it was. A tank suit. Turned him into a walking tank.
Originally posted by Robtard
Edit: I am arguing from a McClane will hit him perspective, as there wouldn't be an issue should Batman continually avoid until McClane ran out of bullets.
Yeah. I'm saying that based on Batman's feats, McClane will not land a single shot, much less get a shot off. It is far more likely that McClane won't even get a shot off than it is that he will. On top of that, it is far more likely that McClane will hit nothing than he will hit something.
The scenario is, John McClane from DH1, Meaning ALL his feats from 2-4 are not usuable, and Batman from Batman begins see each other at the same time. It was STATED McClane doesnt know what to think.
And RJ said McClane ALWAYS has his weapon at the ready. unless he is fireing from the hip I have never seen McClane walking around with the gun aimed like SWAT would do.
And you guys keep going back to the speed of the bullets. Stop that. It doesnt matter of the speed. Its all about Reaction Time. And since Batman was TRAINED to react as fast as he possibly can the fact goes how long does it take for McClane to aim and pull the Trigger..
Now DO NOT go and say McClane always has the gun at the ready. The fact is that McClane might have it at the ready but he isnt already aiming at batman. Stop pretending he is.
Now as soon as that gun TWITCHS batman goes for cover. Even if McClane only has to move the gun an inch to take aim he still has to take half a second to pull the trigger...
On THAT note... if you think it will take a millisecond to pull the trigger... take a stopwatch, start it then stop as fast as you can... Now take THAT time and times it by two or three to count for the force needed to actually pull the trigger in the first place...
Before McClane can move the gun an inch to properly aim AND pull the trigger batman is already behind cover with his Superior reflexes. It is obvious Batman has reflec training because thats how Ninjas were trained back then. What good are you as a Ninja if your reflexs suck? We do NOT know how good McClanes reflexes are.
So...
1 - Stop using Bullet speed as an argument. Even McClane has been able to jump into cover when he was getting shot at.
2 - No. McClane in no way can already have the gun aimed RIGHT at Batman when they first see each other. Even SWAT will see the bad guy before aiming and they always have the gun at the ready.
Im not trying to Gimp McClane here. I am trying to go with reasonable facts and there are plenty of people who agree with me on this.
Oh. And about the headshots.... Police are trained for the Chest double tap. Its a bigger target. They will shoot at the chest first before the head...
and McClane DOESNT know the suit is bullet proof.
Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Show me proof of McClanes Reflexs.
They're almost too numerous to count, but all the times he's dodged, ducked and dived out of the way of bullets, explosions, burning vehicles and whatnots in 4 action films.
TOO numerous, in fact, in the 'get-the-****-out-of-death's-way-in-an-immediate-hurry' category, he was 4 movies worth, while Baleman has a few instances spread across two films.
So in hindsight, it's likely he'll be dodging/diving Batman's batarang, rolling and then coming up with a hail of gunfire the likes Baleman has never seen before.
You can not use the feats from 2-4 of Die Hard. So you can only go by what he has done in DH1.
and i recall the movie being famous for the Camera zoomin on his face to show him Wide Eyed right before something happened. So he took a moment to himself.
With that in mind you would have to say McClane has normal reflexs and the badguys with the guns didnt even know he was up there so they saw him, turned to him, then fired giving McClane plenty of time to get to cover. With the time it took the badguys to actually fire at McClane in DH 1 Batman would have already neutralized the bad guy.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
In that case he'd be a headshotted corpse in a tank suit then.
😆
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But no. A walking tank he is not. This would be proven easily if McClane were to shoot him with a rocket launcher like the Gruber posse unleashed on the SWAT cops.
That's not the extent of what I meant.
Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
The scenario is, John McClane from DH1, Meaning ALL his feats from 2-4 are not usuable, and Batman from Batman begins see each other at the same time. It was STATED McClane doesnt know what to think.And RJ said McClane ALWAYS has his weapon at the ready. unless he is fireing from the hip I have never seen McClane walking around with the gun aimed like SWAT would do.
And you guys keep going back to the speed of the bullets. Stop that. It doesnt matter of the speed. Its all about Reaction Time. And since Batman was TRAINED to react as fast as he possibly can the fact goes how long does it take for McClane to aim and pull the Trigger..
Now DO NOT go and say McClane always has the gun at the ready. The fact is that McClane might have it at the ready but he isnt already aiming at batman. Stop pretending he is.
Now as soon as that gun TWITCHS batman goes for cover. Even if McClane only has to move the gun an inch to take aim he still has to take half a second to pull the trigger...
On THAT note... if you think it will take a millisecond to pull the trigger... take a stopwatch, start it then stop as fast as you can... Now take THAT time and times it by two or three to count for the force needed to actually pull the trigger in the first place...
Before McClane can move the gun an inch to properly aim AND pull the trigger batman is already behind cover with his Superior reflexes. It is obvious Batman has reflec training because thats how Ninjas were trained back then. What good are you as a Ninja if your reflexs suck? We do NOT know how good McClanes reflexes are.
So...
1 - Stop using Bullet speed as an argument. Even McClane has been able to jump into cover when he was getting shot at.
2 - No. McClane in no way can already have the gun aimed RIGHT at Batman when they first see each other. Even SWAT will see the bad guy before aiming and they always have the gun at the ready.
Im not trying to Gimp McClane here. I am trying to go with reasonable facts and there are plenty of people who agree with me on this.
Oh. And about the headshots.... Police are trained for the Chest double tap. Its a bigger target. They will shoot at the chest first before the head...
and McClane DOESNT know the suit is bullet proof.
Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
You can not use the feats from 2-4 of Die Hard. So you can only go by what he has done in DH1.and i recall the movie being famous for the Camera zoomin on his face to show him Wide Eyed right before something happened. So he took a moment to himself.
With that in mind you would have to say McClane has normal reflexs and the badguys with the guns didnt even know he was up there so they saw him, turned to him, then fired giving McClane plenty of time to get to cover. With the time it took the badguys to actually fire at McClane in DH 1 Batman would have already neutralized the bad guy.
There were numerous instances that the McClane used his superior McReflexes to avoid being killed in DH1, more so than in Baleman in BB.
That's just theatrics, son.
What?
Originally posted by Robtard
There were numerous instances that the McClane used his superior McReflexes to avoid being killed in DH1, more so than in Baleman in BB.That's just theatrics, son.
What?
My point is... by the time McClane can precisly aim, there is no leading here because they are both just standing, and pull the trigger batman will have reacted and moved out of the way.
Batman just has to move to cover.
McClane has to get a percise aim and pull the trigger... which doesnt just take a millisecond.
.. now that I think of it we need to have a place in the building this takes place. Is it on the roof? Is it in the room where Mr. Nakatomi is killed? Where?
You're saying that, but movie feats disagree with you, they both dodge, duck and dive from dangers way, McClane happens to be more prolific at it.
Which logically makes sense, as he's not covered in body armour and can't rely on that to safely pull him through, he has to be willier to survive. Call it evolution.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Would you guys say Batman is pretty well known? You know, like any cop who has been around for a few years knows who he is? I think McClane will know right away "Holy shit it's the Batman."Right?
Irrelevant, McClane was gimped here in having to go "what the ****" fgirst, while Batman starts off thinking McClane is an enemy target. Per the OP.
That McGimp doesn't matter much, now that new light has come into play. McClane is a master at avoiding danger and getting out of the way, he did so several times in DH1, even with bloodied and cut feet. When Karl and Gruber where shooting at him in the 'glass scene', he McDove to safety a few times, from multiple guns.
So they see each other, Batman is likely to attack first, since he's on Go-Bat-Go mode, he'll toss a batarang, McClane will McDive to cover, be it wall, desk or door. Then it will turn into a game of who can take out who first. One guy has little 'throwy' things, other guy has a machine-gun and sidearm.
Originally posted by Robtard
Irrelevant, McClane was gimped here in having to go "what the ****" fgirst, while Batman starts off thinking McClane is an enemy target. Per the OP.That McGimp doesn't matter much, now that new light has come into play. McClane is a master at avoiding danger and getting out of the way, he did so several times in DH1, even with bloodied and cut feet. When Karl and Gruber where shooting at him in the 'glass scene', he McDove to safety a few times, from multiple guns.
So they see each other, Batman is likely to attack first, since he's on Go-Bat-Go mode, he'll toss a batarang, McClane will McDive to cover, be it wall, desk or door. Then it will turn into a game of who can take out who first. One guy has little 'throwy' things, other guy has a machine-gun and sidearm.
And I never said in ANY of my posts that McClane will just sit there and let a batarang hit him. It is highly possible it will just come down to who takes out who first but I still feel batman will be the victor. In my own opinion it will come down to both of them out of ammo/throw stuff and then having to fist fight... if that happens Batman has more training in fighting and will win.
Now if it does come down to H2H no one can say McClane has better H2H training then Batman, even if Bats cant turn his head.
Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
He isnt a Master. He, as stated earlier, has a 4 leaf clover shuved up his Arse.And I never said in ANY of my posts that McClane will just sit there and let a batarang hit him. It is highly possible it will just come down to who takes out who first but I still feel batman will be the victor. In my own opinion it will come down to both of them out of ammo/throw stuff and then having to fist fight... if that happens Batman has more training in fighting and will win.
Now if it does come down to H2H no one can say McClane has better H2H training then Batman, even if Bats cant turn his head.
Dude, he has a Masters Degree in getting out of the way of certain death. If you insist it's just pure luck, then this super-luck would factor in as a marketable feat. So McClane gets lucky and Batman steps on a banana peel, stumbles backwards and crashes through a window falling all the way down onto Al's cruiser. /the end
H2H, Baleman will have his hands full. McClane durability is off the charts.