Advent
The only quote that I remembered was the one I misquoted. Of the three that I found, they were all nugatory. So, are there any more statements that aren't open to interpretation regarding Palpatine's power?
All of the ones concerning Palpatine's ability relative to his predecessors in Bane's Order.
First of all, even if you take "most powerful" as combat wise, then you have to take in account that even if Sidious > Bane, that doesn't mean that Sidious > Bane with ORBALISKS!
Yoda was in his time the greatest jedi to have existed yet, so Yoda > TPM Obi Wan, but does that mean that Yoda > TPM Obi Wan with a fleet at his command? NO!
"most powerful", IF it deals with combat, means most powerful when no outside interference is included. Michael Phelps may be one of the fastest if not the fastest swimmers in the world, meaning that in speed He > you. But does that mean that Phelps > you in an aircraft carrier? NO!
So in other words, in this thread we are looking to debate who would win based on FEATS not just quotes.
Apparently, to tell people that this thread is about arguing over their feats and not quotes claiming that Sidious > all is enough for me to permanently go back on his ignore. How logical.
Anyway, it's true that Sidious could kill/severely harm Bane via FL, since Bane has shown to be vulnerable to it.
No. It's more or less an issue that you truly know nothing in the grand scheme of things.
"YODA IS THE MOST POWERFUL EVER BUT DOES THAT MEAN HES BETTER THAN KENOBI WITH A FLEET LOLLLLLLLLLL NO!"
^ Absolutely retarded. You make faulty analogies and logical blunders in almost everything you do. No one here has any modicum of respect for you and you've driven away anyone who has ever dared given you a second chance. Perhaps if you didn't try to lecture those of us who are better than you, we'd understand. Rather than ask questions to increase your knowledge, you push your way into the fray with bullshit like the above and wonder why everyone scoffs at you.
You need to learn: you argue the right way around here or not at all.
Period.
Dude, the fleet analogy was heavily exaggerated to prove a point: just because Sidious is more powerful than any other sith (including Bane) doesn't mean that Sidious is more powerful than Bane with ORBALISKS.
I was just asking to see if Sidious's feats surpassed that of Bane's. Of course, most of you ignored that.
And yes, I have asked a lot of questions, but few of them ever get answered. For example:
When you say "X takes it 9/10", that means that 90% of the time he'll win, right? And the other 10% his enemy just go lucky, right? So in the movies when so and so wins, how do you know that he didn't just get lucky? Sure, you can't speculate like that, but you guys always take who wins in the movies as proof.
And I asked several other questions, such as what Neb's original account was/why he orgininally got banned. No one answered that.
And I do admit that many of you are excellent debaters, many far better than me, including:
You (Gideon)
Advent
Lord Lucien when he wants to actually debate
Sometimes Red Nemesis when he wants to actually debate
TJ, although I wouldn't say that he's that much BETTER
Sometimes Slash, although I wouldn't say he's BETTER
Eminence
Darth Sexy
Sometimes Nai
and maybe a few others that I missed
But just because you're usually better doesn't mean that you're always right. Otherwise there isn't any point in debating is there?
For example: once, Nai said "oh the jedi mind trick always works on any non-force sensitives". I showed a part where Jabba resisted it. "Oh that's because he's a hutt and hutts can resist that, as can other species". I showed him numerous quotes saying that it only works on the weak minded, and then numerous examples of where non force sensitive humans resisted it. He never responded to that point again, because he couldn't.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm just telling you to stop being an ass and think. THINK.T-H-I-N-K.
I knew it. I just KNEW it.
I just knew that you would ignore everything that I say and just post a two line "response".
You're the one that typically makes very long (and well thought out) posts while everyone else (or at least Red Nemesis) says stuff like "the one with the biggest cheeseburger wins!". But, of course, you ignore what I say.
How about this: feel free to put me on ignore, but please you, Lucien, Nai or Red Nemesis respond to each of the arguments numbered below. Just please.
In the Empire vs Earth thread, you said that it was a spite, and that therefore I lose. This is just BS. Here is the LOGIC behind it:
1. If it was a spite, then why did you say that the Empire wins when they obviously would lose?
2. If you didn't realize that it was a spite, then doesn't that mean that you lose? You argued for the wrong side, your side lost, mine won. Therefore, I won the debate.
3. Claiming that it was lopsided and unfair that I argued for the unfairly favored team while you argued for the losing team, answer this: isn't it your fault that you didn't realize that it was a spite and that you argued for the wrong side? You didn't HAVE to argue for the Empire, you couldn't correctly stated that Earth wins.
4. Why did you blame me for not including air support when I gave them 100 tie fighters (not in the OP, but later)?
5. Why did you blame me for not giving them supplies when
a) I gave them quite a bit of supplies
b) Red Nemesis claimed that they didn't need supplies due to "hypermatter".
6. Why did you blame me for not giving them intel when I gave them just as much intel about Earth as Earth gets?
7. Why did you blame me for putting them too far from America when I put them right next to America (in Mexico)?
8. Why did you blame me for not letting the thread die when just a few pages in I said that we should let it die and everyone ignored me?
Now please respond to each of these numbered PERFECTLY LOGICAL arguments. Prove to me how much of an idiot I am, and then I'll admit it.
To answer your question He-man, Bane and Sidious (ROTS) are mostly level feat-wise with alot of controversy about how level with both characters having advantages and disadvantages over the other. To decide a winner one should carefully consider feats, know information and make judgements
And you're right about the quote thing and how Sidious being (possibly, I'm not siding with anyone here) more powerful doesn't grant him an automatic win. To use an example it would be like claiming that swimmer X could beat swimmer Y because he is faster or the better swimmer, despite the fact that swimmer Y has rocket boots on. You would need to think about other things in this case. To use a relevant example it would be like saying Sidious would beat Mace Windu becuase he's more powerful.
And btw it wasn't spite in the Earth v Empire thread. The others were just being dicks.
Originally posted by Nephthys
To answer your question He-man, Bane and Sidious (ROTS) are mostly level feat-wise with alot of controversy about how level with both characters having advantages and disadvantages over the other. To decide a winner one should carefully consider feats, know information and make judgementsAnd you're right about the quote thing and how Sidious being (possibly, I'm not siding with anyone here) more powerful doesn't grant him an automatic win. To use an example it would be like claiming that swimmer X could beat swimmer Y because he is faster or the better swimmer, despite the fact that swimmer Y has rocket boots on. You would need to think about other things in this case. To use a relevant example it would be like saying Sidious would beat Mace Windu becuase he's more powerful.
THANK YOU
Originally posted by Gideon
Corrected. There is no possibly; numerous sources make it abundantly clear that Sidious is more powerful than Bane even during TPM.
They don't specifically state Bane. They just say "most powerful"
Power isn't just physical prowess. Some call the president of the United States the most powerful person in the world, and not because he/she can beat people up (most can't, they're politicians not soldiers). It's because they have command, or at least influence, over the most powerful country in the world.
The quote could simply mean that Palapatine controls the most powerful Empire ever.
EVEN IF it means that Palpatine > all, that doesn't mean that Palpatine > all, even when "all" has outside objects such as orbalisks.
My Yoda vs Obi Wan was an exaggerated example.
I must've missed where Palpatine benchpressing cars or ruling the galaxy as of TPM.
Spoiler:
Rather than make stupid assertions, you should have asked: "Hey, Gideon, could it possibly mean political power?" But you opted to pretend you're a know-it-all and give out an idiotic answer. Don't address me directly again. I'm always right and you're always wrong.
Originally posted by Gideon
I must've missed where Palpatine benchpressing cars or ruling the galaxy as of TPM.Rather than make stupid assertions, you should have asked: "Hey, Gideon, could it possibly mean political power?" But you opted to pretend you're a know-it-all and give out an idiotic answer. Don't address me directly again. I'm always right and you're always wrong.
The person that said this must really be confused.
He apparently claimed that someone said that Palpatine could benchpress cars.
He also responded to the top half of someone's argument, but completely ignored the bottom part, which made an entirely reasonable argument that qutoes saying that Sidious > all doesnt' take outside objects such as Orbalisks into account.
He also misread someone's line saying:
"The quote could simply mean that Palapatine controls the most powerful Empire ever."
And interpreted it as that someone claiming to know all.
He also claims that he's ALWAYS right, and that someone is always wrong, even though that someone once said that Sidious is the most powerful sith ever. Logically, since that someone is always wrong, that must mean that Sidious isn't the most powerful sith ever.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Heknowsall, seriously. I know Gideon might be confused sexually but he DOES have a point. As of TPM, Sidious was stated to be the most powerful of Bane's order which includes BANE. There are MANY quotes that put him above Bane or any other sith lord for that matter.
That's true, and I agree with that.
So it's agreed that:
Sidious > Bane
However, those quotes mean that Sidious = most powerful when outside objects aren't brought into play.
Sidious > Bane =/= Sidious > Bane WITH ORBALISKS
I'm in NO WAY saying that Orbalisk Bane > Sidious. I'm simply trying to get a discussion going in which people debate Sidious vs Orbalisk Bane based on feats and logic, not simply quotes, because the quotes about Sidious don't include outside objects such as orbalisks.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
That's true, and I agree with that.So it's agreed that:
Sidious > Bane
However, those quotes mean that Sidious = most powerful when outside objects aren't brought into play.
Sidious > Bane =/= Sidious > Bane WITH ORBALISKS
I'm in NO WAY saying that Orbalisk Bane > Sidious. I'm simply trying to get a discussion going in which people debate Sidious vs Orbalisk Bane based on feats and logic, not simply quotes, because the quotes about Sidious don't include outside objects such as orbalisks.
What the hell are you talking about? You are making ridiculous statement. Of course, Bane with a star destroyer can defeat Sidious. It is ASSUMED that when we say Bane vs. Sidious, we mean Bane vs. Sidious, not Bane and the ancient sith vs. Sidious.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
What the hell are you talking about? You are making ridiculous statement. Of course, Bane with a star destroyer can defeat Sidious. It is ASSUMED that when we say Bane vs. Sidious, we mean Bane vs. Sidious, not Bane and the ancient sith vs. Sidious.
...
when did I say anything about Bane having ancient sith or star destroyers?
In this fight, Bane has ORBALISKS. I included that in the thread title.
Quotes about Sidious being the most powerful sith doesn't take outside objects into account. In this thread, Bane has an outside object helping him.