Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
It doesn't matter. Sidious is still more powerful than Bane with orbalisks. Sure the fight might be more even, but one blast from Sidious' lightning and Bane is gone.
That's a reasonable claim. But can Sidious's lightning get past Bane's own lightning (if he attacks at the same time)/his lightsaber, his Force shield, his orbalisks and his own natural and very high resistance to pain? Not saying he can't, just asking, like what Gideon said I should do.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
That's a reasonable claim. But can Sidious's lightning get past Bane's own lightning (if he attacks at the same time)/his lightsaber, his Force shield, his orbalisks and his own natural and very high resistance to pain? Not saying he can't, just asking, like what Gideon said I should do.
The question is this. How does Bane prepare himself for someone who is superior in both knowledge and command of the force?
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
The question is this. How does Bane prepare himself for someone who is superior in both knowledge and command of the force?
Well, I think that it said somewhere that one has to be significantly more powerful in the Force in order to break through one's prepared Force defenses. In this case, Bane has far more than just his lightsaber and Force shield, he also has his Orbalisks, which while weak vs lightning still does defend him.
In addition, Bane has a remarkable resistance to pain, is no slouch in the Force either, and the orbalisks also enhance his Force abilities.
Not saying that Bane wins, I personally think that Sidious takes this. Just coming up with ideas as to how this isn't a predetermined thread where the winner is obvious: one CAN make an argument for Bane.
What the hell are you even babbling about? Resistance to pain? That will keep someone from dying? If you're hopped up on PCP, you will literally feel NOTHING (i.e. a Resistance to pain) but if another crack head comes along and shoots you in the head, it doesn't matter how much pain you can withstand, the injury itself is what kills you.
Sidious took the brunt of his own lightning for what, 10 seconds or so, and was fine. He still had, as he said, "unlimited power" to kill Mace with.
On a side note, since it was said in universe, he must've really had unlimited power. Oh yea, and since Anakin said he becomes more powerful that Sidious, I guess that's true too... at least according to Glentract's logic.
You can make all the arguments for Bane that you want, but when something is wrong, it's wrong. You can't debate around it (logically) and expect to win. And feats, as I remember, around here don't mean that much. Yoda is Sidous' equal as of RoTS and we've never seen him kill legions of people with the force, but does that mean that he can't? Absolutely not. He has a superior command of the force, just as Sidious does and is technically just as capable of killing people with it. So when feats don't get a point across, we go to quotes from those who created the fictitious characters. Understand?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallCreating a vortex or something in space that crushed fleets, escaping death, killing 3 masters in under 5 seconds, having lighting that rivals Bane's, which was said to contain at least a million volts from one hand, because Bane made people ashes and skeletons, Sidious left people skeleton when they were wearing armor, masterminded the Clone Wars, leading both sides, and managing to hide the darkness inside him in front of Yoda, Mace, and the entire High Council, anything ring a bell?
That's entirely reasonable, but can you guys find feats that Sidious acomplished that trump Bane's? Not saying that Bane wins, just wondering.
He defeated the Jedi the moment they added Anakin to the council and made them start going against their own code; handing out "secret" missions that included treason. Turning the galaxy against those who have been it's protectors for centuries. And all that was without even using the force. Put that kind of mind behind the ultimate power of the dark side and he's virtually unstoppable. Dispatching of 3 council members/masters in seconds.
Bane couldn't even hurt Kas'im with a force wave that was in a one on one setting where he had time to build up the energy for said attack.
EDIT: sorry, just saw the reply above about the Jedi masters.
Hmm sidious mere presence causing an unbalance in the force, his mere presence turning byss from once a "lush and fertile world" to "one of the most powerful dark side sites" in the galaxy.
I think creating wormholes that wipe out entire fleets, killing 50 storm troopers with one blast of lightning and keeping the lightning from killing his own men along with draining billions of people on byss sub conciously pretty much puts him above bane.
I support quotes, and Sidious is obviously the greatest DLOTS, but I think I see what HWKA is trying to say here:
If you give... Lumiya a stick, and say... Rosh Penin (random Jedi) a lightsaber, and that is ALL the equipment Lumiya has, she is probably going to die. Not necessarily, but her chances don't look good.
This doesn't necessarily make Rosh Penin a greater combatant than Lumiya, in fact, most would argue differently. It just means Lumiya was severely at a disadvantage in this fight.
In a fight in which Lumiya has the exact same equipment as Rosh Penin, she is going to win the huge majority of the fights. She is more powerful. However, if she starts at an equipment disadvantage, there is a chance she will lose.
I think HWKA is simply stating here that he thinks Sidious is at an equipment disadvantage. He is stronger in the force than Bane, and a better duelist than Bane, but perhaps so was Raskt'a, and it didn't do him much good. According to HWKA, simply because Sidious is more powerful than Bane, it doesn't make it a cut and dried argument over who wins a duel if Bane is wearing the orbies.
Personally, I think Sidious would fry Bane's orbalisks, and end the fight with UNLIMITED POWaaaah... but HWKA exaggerated a point to the extent that he lost his point in his example, but I think the point was a valid opinion, even as I believe it is wrong.
I always thought that his orbalisks were standard when someone starts a Bane VS thread, just like Exar Kun's amulets and all of Jango Fett his equipment.
And yes, I also support quotes. If Lucas states that Jar Jar was actually a Force sensitive then yes, Jar Jar is, unless it contradicts any other source that states Jar Jar can't be a Force sensitive.
Advent
So, for those of you who support the usage of quotes (Subjekt, Beefy, Gideon, et al.), you would say that – at least in a clear context - lines that say "X is the most powerful of group Y" are valid evidence (personally, I think they most certainly are)?
That depends. Because it is very true that the mythos is littered with duels won by those who are, in one form or another, weaker than their opponents. I used the comparison, once, of Yoda vs. Ventress. The fact that Yoda is established as being more powerful than Ventress does not translate to Yoda being the established victor in all battles; but it does lend credence to Yoda being the favored opponent.
Meaning I would expect a greater argument from someone pro-Ventress in such a scenario. Same for Bane in this one.