Originally posted by truejedi
I support quotes, and Sidious is obviously the greatest DLOTS, but I think I see what HWKA is trying to say here:If you give... Lumiya a stick, and say... Rosh Penin (random Jedi) a lightsaber, and that is ALL the equipment Lumiya has, she is probably going to die. Not necessarily, but her chances don't look good.
This doesn't necessarily make Rosh Penin a greater combatant than Lumiya, in fact, most would argue differently. It just means Lumiya was severely at a disadvantage in this fight.In a fight in which Lumiya has the exact same equipment as Rosh Penin, she is going to win the huge majority of the fights. She is more powerful. However, if she starts at an equipment disadvantage, there is a chance she will lose.
I think HWKA is simply stating here that he thinks Sidious is at an equipment disadvantage. He is stronger in the force than Bane, and a better duelist than Bane, but perhaps so was Raskt'a, and it didn't do him much good. According to HWKA, simply because Sidious is more powerful than Bane, it doesn't make it a cut and dried argument over who wins a duel if Bane is wearing the orbies.
Personally, I think Sidious would fry Bane's orbalisks, and end the fight with UNLIMITED POWaaaah... but HWKA exaggerated a point to the extent that he lost his point in his example, but I think the point was a valid opinion, even as I believe it is wrong.
THANK YOU.
This is what I was trying to say. Sorry if I was a bit confusing.
I haven't read RoT, so I can't really make a statement here, but I'm just saying does Sidious have the ability to get past Bane's defenses and his orbies? Probably, so Sidious wins in Force and maybe all-out. But what about sabers? I'm tempted to say that Bane takes this. I mean, only his head is vulnerable, and he can basically use his hand to grab Sidious's lightsaber, throw it away (since Bane is physically stronger) and then chop Sidious's head off.
Darth Subjekt
Oh, you mean how Anakin did Dooku? Hmmm... Don't see how that would be that difficult, especially for someone with the credentials of Sidious. I'm not, however, saying that Bane is a slouch.
Well, to be fair, Anakin did have to grapple with Dooku in order to get to that point. I don't see Sidious trying to grab Bane's wrists...
Any particular reason why? Please don't play the "uncharacteristic" card. I've heard that more times than I care to count since I've been back... like people are going out and having a beer with the characters. If that were the case, it was uncharacteristic of Anakin as well, but it didn't stop him.
But no really, why do you say that?
Why?
Look at illustrations of both of them and you have your answer: Sidious, for all his power, is an old geezer. Bane is a monster without the superadrenaline inducing crabs shackled to his skin. Do you honestly think Palpatine would want to get that close?
Personally, I doubt it. But anything is possible.
No, I supposed not. But in the unlikely scenario that Sidious would have to sever Bane's hands in a fight to win, I think he might be willing to risk it all if he thinks he might be destroyed anyways. Or basically, make an uncharacteristic move, should the situation require it.
I didn't mean to imply he's just going to run right over and try to grapple with Bane, which obviously, he would lose on the purely physical level.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The thing is that in a melee, Bane can literally use his hands to block lightsaber strikes, so if Sidious tries to slash at him he can just catch Sidious's lightsaber BLADE and then stab him.
this is actually a very good point. That would be very frustrating to someone with a lightsaber. Probably something that never ever happened to them in their history of saber fighting too.
Though, IF sidious had knowledge of the orbalisks, he would only need to unignite his weapon to get it back.
So you're saying that Bane could just turn on his saber and grab the blade and NO harm will come to him? I call bullshit, unless he's done it already. Also, Sidious, as said by Ian McDiarmid in the ROTS SF, he got his roll call to actually do the fight and was told by George that he was supposed to be the "fastest fighter in the galaxy" (May be slightly off, but the point is that he was meant to be the fastest with a lightsber). So Bane would have to be as fast,if not faster in order to just grab Sidious' saber.
I'm not saying its impossible, just incredibly improbable.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The thing is that in a melee, Bane can literally use his hands to block lightsaber strikes, so if Sidious tries to slash at him he can just catch Sidious's lightsaber BLADE and then stab him.
I thought in the book, Bane wore special cages to prevent them from growing over his hands, feet, and head. So he can't really hold onto the blade with his hands, since they are unprotected, but he could trap the blade at his side with his forearm, and impale sids that way.
Originally posted by mattatomNo, that's not what was said. It was said that "he could literally use his hands to block lightsaber strikes, so if Sidious tries to slash at him he can just catch Sidious's lightsaber BLADE and then stab him." Therefore you all have to PROVE that he can 1, even be fast enough to catch it, and 2, if he is that fast, that his hands can grab a pure beam of intangible energy.
He may not need to grab it in RoT he uses his forearm to 'bat the blade away' it would be easier to dothat.
Originally posted by mattatomWhere exactly is this stated? There's also spaces in between the orbies that would be vulnerable when facing someone like Sidious.
This is true yet it's said the only place the lightsaber could do damage was the neck ankles and wrists which implies whatever he wore on his hands could deflect sabers as well.
Furthermore, what's to stop Sidious from using the force to rip them off of Bane?
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
So you're saying that Bane could just turn on his saber and grab the blade and NO harm will come to him? I call bullshit, unless he's done it already. Also, Sidious, as said by Ian McDiarmid in the ROTS SF, he got his roll call to actually do the fight and was told by George that he was supposed to be the "fastest fighter in the galaxy" (May be slightly off, but the point is that he was meant to be the fastest with a lightsber). So Bane would have to be as fast,if not faster in order to just grab Sidious' saber.I'm not saying its impossible, just incredibly improbable.
Not to sound insulting, but first you say that it's "bullshit" but then you say that it's possible but just improbable.
If Bane's orbies are more or less saber proof, then what's to say that the orbies won't stop the saber (assuming that his hands are protected)?
And true, Sidious is faster, but that doesn't mean that Bane can't block it. Yoda was faster than Dooku but Dooku could still block Yoda's strikes. It would be difficult, but may be plausible for Bane to use his body parts to block Sidious's attacks.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall**Sigh** I said "bullshit" in a completely different thread.. therefore it doesn't count in this thread. Understand? So, yes I said this was extremely improbable - meaning as close to impossible as possible without actually being impossible. (BTW, the "bullshit" was in reference to Luke having 4 years of training)
Not to sound insulting, but first you say that it's "bullshit" but then you say that it's possible but just improbable.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallDo you have proof that his palms are covered by orbies? If not, then your point would be moot.
If Bane's orbies are more or less saber proof, then what's to say that the orbies won't stop the saber (assuming that his hands are protected)?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallBig difference there. Yoda was not at ALL trying to harm Dooku. This would be completely different. And if you were to strike the same area of orbies, they would eventually give and break. And I'm not saying that he use them to help block. I'm saying that he can't just "grab" his lightsaber in mid swing and stop it. It's not tangible. It's not a solid matter so you wouldn't be able to grab it. It a beam of energy. Can you "grab" light from a flashlight? No, you can't.
And true, Sidious is faster, but that doesn't mean that Bane can't block it. Yoda was faster than Dooku but Dooku could still block Yoda's strikes. It would be difficult, but may be plausible for Bane to use his body parts to block Sidious's attacks.
Originally posted by truejedi
Cause we are discussing melee combat. We are in 100% agreement that Sids wins the force and all out.