Who is the best Assassin?

Started by Lestov1619 pages

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ill Duce, Boondock Saints.

You know, now that I think of it, 47 was never shown planning an assassination the way Swagger did. Swagger planned an assassination that could have killed the President of the United States. 47? Some Russian dude without near the security detail.

So really, Swagger is the better assassin. And the better sniper. I'll break it down for anyone who opposes this.

Anyone?

Please, do break it down. I am incredibly intrigued how you came to this conclusion

Originally posted by dadudemon

I'll concede this: Swagger would have to take a few shots to get used to that 4 mile gun due to the technology being so much different than the 2-mile guns we have these days. So, yeah, it's not as simple as Swagger just picking up the gun and shooting it. BUT...I'd say that since the gun was already calibrated to the 4 mile mark when it came on screen...any steady-handed Joe could have picked up the gun and made that same shot specifically because it "shot" where the cross-hairs were on the scope.

Might as well argue that Swagger could make the final shot Wesley made in Wanted if he had that same gun.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Please, do break it down. I am incredibly intrigued how you came to this conclusion

It's called rabid fanboyism.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's called rabid fanboyism.

I mean, i can kind of understand the possibility of the 4km shot having to do with the gun, but I'm staying farrrrrrrrr away from that debate

But to say that Swagger, who is trained primarily in sniping from years of being a serviceman, is a better assassin than 47, whose trained primarily in.....being an assassin, from the day he was born? 😕

RJ's acting like planning out that assassination is a unique feat, but 47 would probably be able to effortlessly plot out that same assassination, probably an even more efficient one, in roughly the same time

good ol' RJ logic 😊

Originally posted by Robtard
Might as well argue that Swagger could make the final shot Wesley made in Wanted if he had that same gun.

No, he couldn't have because it required an ability that is ALMOST on the level of remote viewing with that heart slow down thing.

Additionally, I estimated the shot at about 2 miles after going through the scene, frame by frame.

The distance was not what made the shot so awesome. It was his ability to slow down time and look at stuff really far away with his mind.

Originally posted by Utrigita
47, but I can't be asked to go all over the "swagger is a better sniper" "no hitman is" again. So I'll just state that imo Hitman is still a better sniper and a better assasin.

Nice to see you around, man.

But, yeah, I agree with you mostly. I think 47 is the better overall assassin, without a doubt. I think Swagger is the better sniper in most circumstances and situations...especially while on the run.

not reading through 14 pages, but if Raizo hasn't been mentioned... for shame. He would dominate this entire list. Raizo only got touched when he was up against 10+ people who were almost as badass as he was. He even tooled his master while being at less than 100% of health.

I didn't mention Raizo because he would do it too easily

Originally posted by marwash22
not reading through 14 pages, but if Raizo hasn't been mentioned... for shame. He would dominate this entire list. Raizo only got touched when he was up against 10+ people who were almost as badass as he was. He even tooled his master while being at less than 100% of health.

To be fair Ninja Assassin wasn't out or had very recently come out when RJ made the thread.

But that's irrelevant, this whole thread was done out of butt-hurt over the original 'Agent 47 Vs Swagger' thread and its purpose was to deftly cater it so Swagger has a chance now. Note the "stalking sniper battle' nonsense conditions RJ spouted about.

Swagger isn't an assassin, he doesn't belong in the thread to begin with, but Imp would have closed it if RJ had made another 'Agent 47 Vs Swagger With These New and Specific Conditions So Swagger Can Win Now' thread as he's known to do often when an original thread doesn't go his way.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
so because 47 can take out targets on a whim
O'rly? He took Belikoff out on a whim? When his computer told him, about Belikoff, "The next target date has been moved up, the client wishes it to be public", 47 said "I've planned something more...subtle. I've made preparations."

He then was shown studying Belikoff on his computer. Next day, he capped him. He was never shown calibrating his rifle onsite. Obviously he scouted the site, saw the building 4 away, and set up a roost there. When it came down to kill time, all he had to do was center the crosshairs on Belikoff's forehead and pull the trigger.

Feel stupid yet?


and swagger needs to thoroughly plan it out makes him a better assassin? 😐
Let's see.....Killing the Russian....Killing the President of the United States....

Yeah......The latter is much more difficult.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Please, do break it down. I am incredibly intrigued how you came to this conclusion
Because Swagger is one of a handful of men in the world who can plan and execute an assassination on the President of the United States. 47 never showed that he is capable of doing this.

So really, what I should have said, is "Swagger is a better sniper assassin, potentially."

Originally posted by Lestov16

RJ's acting like planning out that assassination is a unique feat, but 47 would probably be able to effortlessly plot out that same assassination, probably an even more efficient one, in roughly the same time

It is a unique feat. Why would you say it isn't? Again, the conversation between Swagger and Johnson:

Col. Johnson: "Your longest shots were never confirmed..."

Bob Lee Swagger: "That's because long shots generally go places you wouldn't wanna have to go afterwords to have to confirm 'em. Confirmation's deskposts' problem. You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play. The President will be wearing body armor, that means a head shot. You believe there's a shooter involved capable of making this shot?"

47 never displayed this knowledge about sniping.

Let's compare all sniping feats, shall we?

Range: 47 made a longer shot, no doubt there, but there's more to sniping than making long shots. Besides, the maximum range of Swagger's rifle is over 4 miles. Since Swagger was shown doing the calculations on a shot from over a mile out, he could easily do the math for a 4k shot. It's like going from 2 + 2=4 to 4 + 4=8.

Stealth/Stalking: Gimmee a break, Swagger pwns here. He is shown making shots ranging from 100 yards out to over a mile out. 47 made the longer shot because he had to, because he lacks the skill/stealth to get closer as Swagger did.

Other: "His last assignment went wrong. Put in unfriendly territory on a loan out left as expendable. Opposing forces sent an attack helicopter and a hundred man company. His best friend and spotter was killed. No official report."

"Ghost reports said he inflicted seventy percent casualties. The rest fled."

"The agency asset that left him there to die? Suddenly removed from the face of the earth two weeks after. They never laid it at Bob Lee's feet. He retired a week later."

"I guess Bob Lee didn't think he was expendable."

100 men and a heavily armored attack chopper. Swagger took out the chopper with a single shot, then inflicted 70% casualties on the men while retreating over 8 kilometers of unfamiliar territory.

Swagger has feats out the yazoo. 47? One feat. He shot a man who was standing still, who was not shooting back at him. The men Swagger shot were shooting back, usually hunting him. He took out 3 CIA counter snipers who were all hunting him. This alone makes him a better sniper.

But yeah, I'm just a rabid Swagger fanboy 🙄

Like I said, I'm not entirely sold on 47 being the better sniper, but I'm confident he's the overall better assassin

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

47 never displayed this knowledge about sniping.

But yeah, I'm just a rabid Swagger fanboy 🙄

Except of course when he made a 2+ mile shot, unless you want to argue that in 47's universe those same laws (temperature, wind velocity, Earth's rotation etc) don't factor in and anyone with a rifle could make the shot. Which you probably would in some last ditch effort.

Yes, you are; you've proved it time and time again. Your lips are permanently attached around Swagger's @sshole.

It's great how you'll use spoken/not show feats for Swagger, but completely ignore that Agent 47 has the same and they're greater.

-Beginning of the film, it's stated that he's trained to be the perfect assassin and is an expert in every form of combat.

-When that douchy Interpol agent is talking about him, he points to a map on the wall littered with pushpins, each indicating a successful assassination.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except of course when he made a 2+ mile shot, unless you want to argue that in 47's universe those same laws (temperature, wind velocity, Earth's rotation etc) don't factor in and anyone with a rifle could make the shot. Which you probably would in some last ditch effort.

Yes, you are; you've proved it time and time again. Your lips are permanently attached around Swagger's @sshole.

It's great how you'll use spoken/not show feats for Swagger, but completely ignore that Agent 47 has the same and they're greater.

-Beginning of the film, it's stated that he's trained to be the perfect assassin and is an expert in every form of combat.

-When that douchy Interpol agent is talking about him, he points to a map on the wall littered with pushpins, each indicating a successful assassination.

But wouldn't some douchy Interpol agent being able to track all of his kills make him the less competent assassin?

💃

Originally posted by Lestov16
But wouldn't some douchy Interpol agent being able to track all of his kills make him the less competent assassin?

If Agent 47 had tried to hide the deaths/bodies and the douche still figured it out, sure. There's no indication of that though.

better sniper = Swagger.
overall better assassin = 47.

this is not in question.

Originally posted by marwash22
better sniper = Swagger.
overall better assassin = 47.

this is not in question.

Pretty much. In a sniper duel, Swagger wins 10/10.

However, if Swagger chose to employ his talents as an assassin, he be more deadly than 47 IMO.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except of course when he made a 2+ mile shot, unless you want to argue that in 47's universe those same laws (temperature, wind velocity, Earth's rotation etc) don't factor in and anyone with a rifle could make the shot. Which you probably would in some last ditch effort.

Yes, you are; you've proved it time and time again. Your lips are permanently attached around Swagger's @sshole.

It's great how you'll use spoken/not show feats for Swagger, but completely ignore that Agent 47 has the same and they're greater.

-Beginning of the film, it's stated that he's trained to be the perfect assassin and is an expert in every form of combat.

-When that douchy Interpol agent is talking about him, he points to a map on the wall littered with pushpins, each indicating a successful assassination.

Mhm, 47 is an expert in every aspect of combat. Swagger, however, is said to be "the best."

The Best>>>>>>Expert.

Have a nice day.

Electra. smurph

Edit: 47 is disqualified for being one of the most recognisable men on the planet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Electra. smurph
haermm Leon and Vincent.

Seriously, her movie killed my soul. Thats a better feat than the rest of these wannabes.