Who is the best Assassin?

Started by Rogue Jedi19 pages

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, what's possible in reality doesn't apply to a fantasy character. Swagger couldn't make a 2mile shot, as he couldn't make the adjustments, factoring everything in at this distance, it's beyond humanly possible; Swagger isn't super-human.

Yeah, you're clearly breaking the "screen feats" rule, as 47 made that shot, Swagger didn't and couldn't, going by his feats.

What Impedimet did/saw in the military has no bearing on a fictional/fantasy character. Might as well ask Imp to dismiss just about every thread, on those same grounds.

LoL, you're not baiting me into a shit-slinging. So stop acting like a clown, please.

Swagger can make the calculations, dude. If he has a rifle as powerful as 47 he can. How? Well, let's sya that in "Shooter", when he is making the calculations for shooting the can of beef stew, he is doing 2 + 2. If he is making the calculations for a shot twice that long, he simply does 4 + 4. Get it?

I already explained that Swagger has more sniper feats onscreen that 47 has. That argument is done.

Impediment has experience with a rifle, he'll get what I am saying.

You wanna say 47 has a better rifle? Fine. But dont say he's a better sniper, because he's not.....His 4k shot was one damn feat which Swagger, given 47's rifle, could easily make.

LoL, no, Swagger clearly said that a mile shot is nearly impossible, as there's so many factors to compenstate for. So he couldn't make a 2mile, going by his screen feats.

Yet 47 made a shot with a sniper Swagger couldn't. So 47 is the better sniper. Amazing, that.

I understand what you're saying, but you're trying to dismiss 47's screen feats because it doesn't jive with reality, that isn't a valid argument in here, considering we're talking fantasy. Super-assassins don't exist in reality either, would you try to dismiss 47 as an opponent for that same reason? No, you wouldn't.

See above, going by screen feats, he makes a shot Swagger couldn't. 47's better. Just abide the "screen feats" rule, it's easy.

Impossible due to a rifles capabilities, man 🙄

Give him 47's rifle and he makes the same shot.

Given screen feats, 47 has a more powerful gun, end of story.

Given ALL sniping screen feats, 47 wouldn't make a hair on Swagger's ass.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Impossible due to a rifles capabilities, man 🙄

Give him 47's rifle and he makes the same shot.

Given screen feats, 47 has a more powerful gun, end of story.

Given ALL sniping screen feats, 47 wouldn't make a hair on Swagger's ass.

And a person's abilities/skills, otherwise anyone could do what Swagger is shown doing, "with the same rifle." Yet we both know that isn't true.

No, not by Swagger's screen feats.

No, 47's the better sniper, he's has super-human skill with it, from what is shown. He can make shots Swagger can't.

No, 47 would shoot Swagger in the face from 4km(over twice Swagger's max) away, going by screen feats.

Originally posted by Robtard
And a person's abilities/skills, otherwise anyone could do what Swagger is shown doing, "with the same rifle." Yet we both know that isn't true.

No, not by Swagger's screen feats.

No, 47's the better sniper, he's has super-human skill with it, from what is shown. He can make shots Swagger can't.

No, 47 would shoot Swagger in the face from 4km(over twice Swagger's max) away, going by screen feats.

Tell me, when does Swagger say that it's impossible due to human restrictions to shoot beyond a mile? Because he kinda did it, you know. He said anything over a mile is impossible, Glover said bullshit, Swagger tested it and found it to be true. 😄

He was referring to the capabilities of a rifle, Rob. Whats so hard about doubling up on the math?

Yes, Swagger displayed better and MORE screen feats. FAR more.

47 would have to FIND Swagger first. Swagger displayed stealth and camo that 47 never did. The only thing 47 would see is Swagger's bullet smashing through his scope.

McClane with a 9mm versus Murtaugh with a .357, who wins? McClane does, despite having a weaker weapon.

Scene where he says everything has to be factored in, even the earth's rotation, so the shot is all but impossible. He was able to make the mile shot, because he's an expert(and then some) sniper, one of very few men on the planet. As stated.

Yet when it comes to sniping, 47 can make a shot Swagger couldn't, about twice Swagger's range, so 47 is the better sniper, going by screen feats.

This is going on 4 pages now where you ignore the "screen feats" rule. It's tiring.

Originally posted by Robtard
And a person's abilities/skills, otherwise anyone could do what Swagger is shown doing, "with the same rifle." Yet we both know that isn't true.

Let's see, Swagger is shown.......Leading his target and scoring head shots. SHOWN doing the calculations for his long shots. What's 47 shown doing?

YouTube video

Looking through a scope and pulling a trigger, big whoop.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Let's see, Swagger is shown.......Leading his target and scoring head shots. SHOWN doing the calculations for his long shots. What's 47 shown doing?

Looking through a scope and pulling a trigger, big whoop.

Repeat: Yet 47 made a sniper shot that is well beyond Swagger's abilities, 47 is the better sniper, going by screen feats.

You keep ignoring this, 47 also made adjustments before his 4km shot.

Originally posted by Robtard
Scene where he says everything has to be factored in, even the earth's rotation. He was able to make the mile shot, because he's an expert sniper, one of very few men on the planet. As stated.

Yet when it comes to sniping, 47 can make a shot Swagger couldn't, about twice Swagger's range, so 47 is the better sniper, going by screen feats.

This is going on 4 pages now where you ignore the "screen feats" rule. It's tiring.

Exactly, and Bob Lee said "That's because long shots generally go places you wouldn't wanna have to go afterwords to have to confirm 'em. Confirmation's deskposts' problem. You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play. The President will be wearing body armor, that means a head shot. You believe there's a shooter involved capable of making this shot?"

He knows all 47 knows and then tons more. When did 47 ever talk about that kinda shit? Oh yeah, never.

47 made the shot with a superior rifle, want more proof? His bullet arrived almost instantly. He squeezed the trigger and SPLAT, Bellicoff's head exploded. HA.

I am adhering to screen feats, Swagger's trump 47's, as I said, what is 47 actually shown doing other than looking through a scope and pulling a trigger? Once?

Originally posted by Robtard
Repeat: Yet 47 made a sniper shot that is well beyond Swagger's abilities, 47 is the better sniper, going by screen feats.

You keep ignoring this, 47 also made adjustments before his 4km shot.

Post a vid of 47 making the adjustments. Also note that Swagger is entirely capable of making the same adjustments.

Don't know if there is one on the net, watch the movie if you need proof. Regardless, 47 made a 4km shot, it's a valid screen feat.

All you said above is irrelevent. 47 is shown making a sniper shot that would be impossible for Swagger to make. Adhereing my the "movie feats" rule, 47's the better sniper. /the end

Yes, you will continue to ignore the "screen feats" rule and continue your "Swagger can do anything better because he's Swagger and I like him a lot" method of debating. Moving on to page 4 of you ignoring the rules.

Originally posted by Robtard
Don't know if there is one on the net, watch the movie if you need proof. Regardless, 47 made a 4km shot, it's a valid screen feat.

All you said above is irrelevent. 47 is shown making a sniper shot that would be impossible for Swagger to make. Adhereing my the "movie feats" rule, 47's the better sniper. /the end

Yes, you will continue to ignore the "screen feats" rule and continue your "Swagger can do anything better because he's Swagger and I like him a lot" method of debating. Moving on to page 4 of you ignoring the rules.

haermm Right, looking through a scope and pulling the trigger trumps leading your targets and making head shots, trumps taking on three snipers and pwning haermm

You aren't getting it, man. 47 knew his rifle could shoot that far, so he did the calculations in advance and adjusted so that all he had to do center the crosshairs and pull the trigger. Swagger, with the same rifle, could do the same. We can actually SEE Swagger doing the calculations, not to mention the speech he gave. Here it is again:

"That's because long shots generally go places you wouldn't wanna have to go afterwords to have to confirm 'em. Confirmation's deskposts' problem. You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play. The President will be wearing body armor, that means a head shot. You believe there's a shooter involved capable of making this shot?"

No response to 47's bullet arriving almost instantly in Bellicoff's head? Hmm? Thought not. Just another log on the fire proving that 47 had a way stronger rifle.

You're painted into a corner here, man, and your only defense is "You arent going by screen feats!!!" Funny thing is that I AM going by screen feats, and I have proven without a doubt that Swagger is superior to 47.

OK Rob, I just watched 47 cap Belicoff. Here’s how it went down:

Belicoff pulls up in his car. He gets out of his car. The redhead reporter approaches and asks Belicoff about his political position. The bodyguard is capped. The camera zooms in to the building where is nested. He is aiming his rifle. He centers the crosshairs of his rifle on Belicoff’s head. He pulls the trigger. One second later, Belicoff’s head explodes. Also, 6-10 second flight time. At twice that distance, it will have a flight time of 12-24 seconds. How do you explain how 47 fired, then a second later Belicoff's head exploded? Survey says.....................It was ALL rifle.

At no time was 47 shown calibrating his scope. At no time was he shown making the adjustments he needed to be able to zero in his rifle (center the crosshairs) on Belicoff’s head and make the shot. Also, I looked up his rifle. It fires ether a 7.62 NATO, .300 Winchester Magnum, .338 Lapua and 6.5x55mm.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Blaser_93_sniper_rifle

No way no how do those rounds travel in a straight trajectory for 4 km. 47 made the adjustments before the shot, just as Swagger would have.

NOW…..Lets compare sniping feats, shall we?

47: Made one shot. He centered his crosshairs on Bellicoff’s head, then squeezed the trigger. End feat. Anyone half trained nincompoop could have done that. I know, I know, Swagger had Donnie spotting for him, but Swagger could have made those shots by himself.

SWAGGER: Opening scene, Ethiopia: Swagger is shown leading his targets. Swagger takes out an attack chopper with a .50 cal sniper rifle. Swagger retreats 8 kilometers to safety, inflicting 70% casualties along the way on 100 men. 70 men, dude, with a sniper rifle.

Swagger is shown scouting three cities for a mock Presidential assassination. He determines Philly is the only possible location.

Swagger takes out 3 CIA men with a .22 rifle with a potato on the tip of the barrel for a suppressor.

Swagger takes out yet another chopper with his sniper rifle at the ranch.

End battle: Swagger takes on and kills two CIA snipers (I thought it was three), then shoots off Elias Koteas’s arm at the elbow while he has a shotgun at the head of Swagger’s woman.

Then there's Swagger saying this: "That's because long shots generally go places you wouldn't wanna have to go afterwords to have to confirm 'em. Confirmation's deskposts' problem. You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play. The President will be wearing body armor, that means a head shot. You believe there's a shooter involved capable of making this shot?"

Sooooooooooooo Screen feats? Swagger wins this in a landslide.

All you said above is irrelevant, 47 is fictional and what he can do is based on fantasy/make believe, it's not bound by your "this is how it works in real life" angle you're trying to pull here. He's a fictional charcter with unrealistic abilities, like many others in here. Get that into your skull.

Using that same BS you're trying to pull here, your little Harry Potter characters can't cast spells in these vs threads, since magic doesn't really exist. This same BS would render most characters in here non-usable. Jedi, mutants, monsters, science freaks etc.

So, once again, going by screen feats, Agent 47 can make a sniper-shot Swagger couldn't ever make, ergo, 47 is the better sniper. /the end

Continue onto page 5 of you ignoring the rules. Amazing, anyone else would have been warned to stick to the rules by now.

The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!

Agent 47 is a movie character. Swagger is a movie character. Superman is a movie character. Neo, Wesley Gibson, Magneto, Sideswipe, Chucky, and Kubla-wretched-bloody-Khan are f*cking movie characters.

Movie character = fictional.

Fictional = not real.

Anything can happen in a movie.

It happened on screen? That is the standard.

Quit this incessant back-and-forth, all of you, and please continue with the debate.

The next person who ignores the rules will get an official warning by me.

Screw Swagger and 47, lets say they have the flu. Who now?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Screw Swagger and 47, lets say they have the flu. Who now?

LoL. Instead of being a man and admitting that you were wrong and were indeed not following the "screen feats" rule, you instead go for the dismissal approach. Nearly 5 pages of you breaking the rules.

Funny how no one has mentioned Riggs here. 1000 yard head shot in high wind at 18, pretty impressive.

Originally posted by Robtard
"strawman comparison" now? LoL.

Yeah. The argument you made was the comparison. You tried to illustrate a strawman argument with a fallacious comparison. You know that's how it works, right?

Originally posted by Robtard
"I don't have to prove anything, it's on screen; it's a screen feat. 47 made a shot with a sniper that Swagger couldn't make in RJ's wettest dream, ergo, 47 is a better sniper (and better all around, as I showed above with another screen feat).

No, you do. You have to prove that it was his skills and, by inference, not all gun.

Fact: he made the snipe with a bullet travel time of less than a second.
Fact: no bullet or gun exists that could make a shot from that far and have the tavel time.
Fact: He was using technology that doesn't exist.
Fact: If the only thing he had to do was line up the cross-hairs on that dude's skull, that shot is easy as hell.

It is up to you to prove that he made the shot with his skills and not uber technology. All items point to nonexistent uber-tech.

Originally posted by Robtard
All you're doing is ignoring the "screen feats" rule and it's bordering on trolling now. Abide the rules.

You can't say something that simply isn't true and pretend it is.

That's not how it works. You and I both know that your memory is superb. There's no excuse for what you just tried to do. You deliberately lied about something I said. Bad form.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Screen feat still stands. He made a shot by firing at someone lined up in his cross-hairs. No denying that. That's an easy shot, for a novice. No denying that, either.

If you can find in my posts where I said or implied that we can "ignore screen feats", I'll apologize.

In fact, from my second post, you can clearly see that I said the feat stands. I was pointing out that there are feats that are stupid and impossible. As Imp put it, it'

"Movie character = fictional.

Fictional = not real.

Anything can happen in a movie."

RJ is 100% correct this time. His arguments are flawless.

Leon would be a good choice. But can he get close enough to employ his stealth?