Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah. The argument you made was the comparison. You tried to illustrate a strawman argument with a fallacious comparison. You know that's how it works, right?No, you do. You have to prove that it was his skills and, by inference, not all gun.
Fact: he made the snipe with a bullet travel time of less than a second.
Fact: no bullet or gun exists that could make a shot from that far and have the tavel time.
Fact: He was using technology that doesn't exist.
Fact: If the only thing he had to do was line up the cross-hairs on that dude's skull, that shot is easy as hell.It is up to you to prove that he made the shot with his skills and not uber technology. All items point to nonexistent uber-tech.
You can't say something that simply isn't true and pretend it is.
That's not how it works. You and I both know that your memory is superb. There's no excuse for what you just tried to do. You deliberately lied about something I said. Bad form.
If you can find in my posts where I said or implied that we can "ignore screen feats", I'll apologize.
In fact, from my second post, you can clearly see that I said the feat stands. I was pointing out that there are feats that are stupid and impossible. As Imp put it, it'
"Movie character = fictional.
Fictional = not real.
Anything can happen in a movie."
RJ is 100% correct this time. His arguments are flawless.
Lot's of noise, but no substance. If 47's shot is easy and anyone can make it, same applies for what Swagger showed on film. This is BS of course, on both counts.
Still, screen feats is screen feats, 47 made an impossible in reality shot, Swagger can't make this, so 47's the better sniper. /the end
Just accept the "screen feats" rule, or GTFO, it's tedious, went through 5 pages of this, not doing it with you. Abide the rules.
Originally posted by Robtard
Lot's of noise, but no substance.
Again, when you say something, it has to actually be true.
Originally posted by Robtard
If 47's shot is easy and anyone can make it, same applies for what Swagger showed on film. This is BS of course, on both counts.
No. That's not true.
Show me where Swagger JUST lines up his sights, pulls the trigger, and, "presto", headshot. Didn't happen because he doesn't have access to a super-sniper rifle that just requires lining up crosshairs in the middle of a dude's head.
Originally posted by Robtard
Still, screen feats is screen feats, 47 made an impossible in reality shot, Swagger can't make this, so 47's the better sniper. /the end
Exactly. Screen feats are screen feats. Agent 47 had technology that makes headshots at 4km look easy. Quite obviously, Swagger is the better sniper by miles. (lol, I'm punny.)
Originally posted by Robtard
Just accept the "screen feats" rule, or GTFO, it's tedious, went through 5 pages of this, not doing it with you. Abide the rules.
No u.
Just accept that you made a faulty assumption and can't admit that it was faulty to begin with.
And, again, when you say something it actually has to be true. Show me where I'm not going by screen feats?
Now, we can definitely say you are not going by screen feats. You're giving Agent 47 abilities not seen on screen. You're trying to say it was skill when it is quite clear that it was almost all gun. 1 second travel time at 4km. hahahaha That's skill, right?
Now, actually respond to my post instead of making up things I didn't say.
Respond to this:
"No, you do. You have to prove that it was his skills and, by inference, not all gun.
Fact: he made the snipe with a bullet travel time of less than a second.
Fact: no bullet or gun exists that could make a shot from that far and have the tavel time.
Fact: He was using technology that doesn't exist.
Fact: If the only thing he had to do was line up the cross-hairs on that dude's skull, that shot is easy as hell.
It is up to you to prove that he made the shot with his skills and not uber technology. All items point to nonexistent uber-tech."
Off the top of my head, when Swagger shoots the assassin about to kill the FBI Agent. He raised his rifle, looked through the scope and made a head-shot, quick and easy, just like that. Same as 47.
47 made a sniper shot that Swagger couldn't make, because it's fictional and out of the realms of reality, just as being a super-assassin who's an "expert in all forms of combat" is fictional and out of the realm of reality, why aren't you arguing against this. By screen feats, 47 is the better sniper. /the end
There are rules, abide by them. I don't want to hear any more nonsense.
Originally posted by Robtard
Off the top of my head, when Swagger shoots the assassin about to kill the FBI Agent. He raised his rifle, looked through the scope and made a head-shot, quick and easy, just like that. Same as 47.
At what distance. 😐
Originally posted by Robtard
47 made a sniper shot that Swagger couldn't make, because it's fictional and out of the realms of reality, just as being a super-assassin who's an "expert in all forms of combat" is fictional and out of the realm of reality, why aren't you arguing against this. By screen feats, 47 is the better sniper. /the end
There's no need to argue that point.
He made a shot with tech that doesn't exist. He's clearly not a better shot, by feats. /the end.
You do know that the burden of proof is on you to prove that it wasn't mostly the tech, right?
You need to prove that his skill>Swaggers. So far, you haven't done anything but post the same thing over and over (i.e. "Agent 47 is teh betterz because he sniped at liek 4Km!"😉and end it with this "/the end."
Originally posted by Robtard
There are rules, abide by them. I don't want to hear any more nonsense.
You are correct. You need to abide by them. You are giving agent 47 abilities he doesn't have. That's breaking the rules.
Either disprove that a 1 second travel time at 4Km is super-tech or prove that Agent 47 has super TK that accelerates bullets.
Since we all know you can't do either, it's obviously super-tech. (Engine oil, man.)
I don't have prove a thing. 47 was able to make the impossible shot, because it's fictional, just as being a super-assassin is fictional and improbable. THAT'S ALL. F-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-L.
Just as I wouldn't have to prove how a little kid is able to defy the laws of physics by waving around a stick in Harry Potter.
Continue dancing around this, you will.
Originally posted by Robtard
I don't have prove a thing. 47 was able to make the impossible shot, because it's fictional, just as being a super-assassin is fictional and improbable. THAT'S ALL. F-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-L.
That in no way addressed my point of superior-tech. FICtIONAL tech, but superior tech.
That sir, is a dodge and a nice strawman example.
Originally posted by Robtard
Just as I wouldn't have to prove how a little kid is able to defy the laws of physics by waving around a stick in Harry Potter.Continue dancing around this, you will.
Another strawman.
You've yet to actually address my points.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That in no way addressed my point of superior-tech. FICtIONAL tech, but superior tech.That sir, is a dodge and a nice strawman example.
Another strawman.
You've yet to actually address my points.
You're assuming it was all superior tech and had nothing to do with 47's training, which was (the training) mentioned and shown to be above normal in the film. It can just as easily (and would follow the screen feats rule) be argued that his skill is so insanely high (see fictional), that he was able to make the shot, no matter how out of reality it was.
This is why your argument is BS. That and your constant dismissing the "screen feats" rule.
You don't know what a strawman argument is, as I have yet to pass off anything I said solely, as your words/argument.
Screen-feats rule, abide it. You can do it.
As far as uber-tech vs uber-skill goes.
Guns/bullets do things in mvoies all the time that they can't do in real life from El Mariachi's five round double barreled shotgun to Wesley Gibson Bending bullets, to Bruce Willis's Mr. Smith sending thugs flipping end over end across a street with a Colt .45.
Unfurtunatly in most instances it can't be choked up to uber-tech. Not saying this is the case for "Hitman" per se. Just putting it out their.
Originally posted by Robtard
You're assuming it was all superior tech and had nothing to do with 47's training,
Incorrect. You're lying again.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You do know that the burden of proof is on you to prove that it wasn't mostly the tech, right?
By the power of deductive reasoning, we can say that ddm did not say or assume that it was "all superior tech and had nothing to do with 47's training."
Originally posted by Robtard
which was (the training) mentioned and shown to be above normal in the film. It can just as easily (and would follow the screen feats rule) be argued that his skill is so insanely high (see fictional), that he was able to make the shot, no matter how out of reality it was.
Right. He made a shot, with a super-scope, with a super bullet, with a super-gun.
You still haven't addressed that point.
Here it is again:
"You have to prove that it was his skills and, by inference, not all gun.
Fact: he made the snipe with a bullet travel time of less than a second.
Fact: no bullet or gun exists that could make a shot from that far and have the tavel time.
Fact: He was using technology that doesn't exist.
Fact: If the only thing he had to do was line up the cross-hairs on that dude's skull, that shot is easy as hell.
It is up to you to prove that he made the shot with his skills and not uber technology. All items point to nonexistent uber-tech."
Originally posted by Robtard
This is why your argument is BS. That and your constant dismissing the "screen feats" rule.
My argument is fact based while yours is baseless inference that you still have yet to prove.
Originally posted by Robtard
You don't know what a strawman argument is, as I have yet to pass off anything I said solely, as your words/argument.
Actually, I do, and you're a gross offender.
Originally posted by Robtard
Screen-feats rule, abide it. You can do it.
No u.
Here are the screen feats one more time.
47: Made one shot. He centered his crosshairs on Bellicoff’s head, then squeezed the trigger. End feat. Anyone half trained nincompoop could have done that. I know, I know, Swagger had Donnie spotting for him, but Swagger could have made those shots by himself.
SWAGGER: Opening scene, Ethiopia: Swagger is shown leading his targets. Swagger takes out an attack chopper with a .50 cal sniper rifle. Swagger retreats 8 kilometers to safety, inflicting 70% casualties along the way on 100 men. 70 men, dude, with a sniper rifle.
Swagger is shown scouting three cities for a mock Presidential assassination. He determines Philly is the only possible location.
Swagger takes out 3 CIA men with a .22 rifle with a potato on the tip of the barrel for a suppressor.
Swagger takes out yet another chopper with his sniper rifle at the ranch.
End battle: Swagger takes on and kills two CIA snipers (I thought it was three), then shoots off Elias Koteas’s arm at the elbow while he has a shotgun at the head of Swagger’s woman.
Then there's Swagger saying this: "That's because long shots generally go places you wouldn't wanna have to go afterwords to have to confirm 'em. Confirmation's deskposts' problem. You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play. The President will be wearing body armor, that means a head shot. You believe there's a shooter involved capable of making this shot?"
Sooooooooooooo Screen feats? Swagger wins this in a landslide.
Also, the distance does not look like 4Km. In fact, I think with a tad bit of time and a little bit of math, we could show that the distance was closer to 1Km. Meaning, the "4Km" remark was hyperbole or just plain exaggerated.
That still does not explain the less than a second travel time of the bullet. There's still some superior tech going on.
Well, when the agent is getting off the leer jet after the shot, these are his exact words:
"I can't be sure, he never works again so quickly. But the Russians say that Belicoff was grazed by a single bullet from over four kilometers away."
So it's not like the agent was shown gauging the distance himself, it was more of an unofficial report.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Side question....Watching Hitman now. The scene where 47 and the three other assassins have the standoff on the train car, they all have two guns. Why are the other three assassins pointing their guns at each other? Shouldn't they have had both their guns on 47?
It looks way cooler for all three of them to point the guns at each other?