The Original Hellfire Club vs X-Men

Originally posted by redhotrash
My bad for not putting it more simply, I sometime forget who Im talking to. Show me something that says her phase ability works like Vision's. Thats just your own speculation. And I thought it was pretty clear I mentioned the Shaw situation as a means to show that he is far from indestructable.

Yea and so shaw one time showing now holds precedences over the times colossus has fail to do the same? also I never said he was industructable.

also what pierce are we using I mean there are so many versions.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's a small blast, so any amp is negligible, and the OP said nothing about no BFR.😛

Ah right, I don't know I kind of always assumed the field was blank.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Ah right, I don't know I kind of always assumed the field was blank.

and it probably is, but any throw colossus uses is going to have decent distance, so shaw would be out of the fight for a bit, no?

Originally posted by -Pr-
true.

Here:

i see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Originally posted by -Pr-
and it probably is, but any throw colossus uses is going to have decent distance, so shaw would be out of the fight for a bit, no?

also it should be remeber that shaw speed increased as well with the mroe damage he recieves.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
thats a plot device which he does not have here and still did not prevent shaw from absorbing the energy.

i didn't say it would prevent him from absorbing it. he's not supercharging him, though.

and i dont see it as a plot device, tbh.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
this could be true, but shaw could do that same no?

also it should be remeber that shaw speed increased as well with the mroe damage he recieves.

he's going to knock colossus off balance with an optic blast and then toss him a few miles in to the air? 😛

Originally posted by Battlehammer
When was the last time he done that? how many times has he done it? that one time pritty much? isent CIS still on?

CIS is still on, but since this is a forum discussion and it's a viable tactic (especially now that Cyclops dropped his qualms about killing), it's solid.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Then whats to stop emma from taking over his mind and turning him on his team?

Jean Grey.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Jean can't mind rape Shaw, if not mistaken Prof X is unable to do so. Shaw has one of the msot protected minds on the planet.

Originally posted by -Pr-
and it probably is, but any throw colossus uses is going to have decent distance, so shaw would be out of the fight for a bit, no?

Well think about it, if we ignore the telepaths for a moment because there's no way in hell Jean Grey sans Phoenix is taking on Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde.

Scott can clear the field with a GOML blast right, but to do so he'll have to get rid of Shaw first otherwise he'll just amp Sebastian tremendously. So if he knocks Shaw over isn't that giving Leland enough time to cause the entire X-Men team to fall over?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Not sans Phoenix Jean. And if Exodus who has knocked Jean sans Phoenix telepathically on her ass twice was unable to deploy his telekinesis against Emma then what makes you think Jean will be able to? It'll end up being an astral fighta and Jean will be too preocuppied with Emma to protect her teammates from Jason.

Masterminds powers work at the speed of thought as well.

1. So we're only using low feats for certain characters now? Jean is good enough to at least occupy Emma while one of the other X-men take her out.

2. Mastermind's and Scott's powers would have about the same deploying time (just like everyone else in this fight). The difference is that Scott's is destructive in nature while Mastermind's is not. Also, the X-men know what to expect from Mastermind and I doubt any illusion would take them by surprise to keep Scott from attacking the place where the HC is standing the moment the fight starts.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i didn't say it would prevent him from absorbing it. he's not supercharging him, though.

and i dont see it as a plot device, tbh.

he's going to knock colossus off balance with an optic blast and then toss him a few miles in to the air? 😛

well yea the water being there would be a plot device........

Naw I ment shaw jsut throws colossus lol.

also what happens if emma controlled scot mind?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well think about it, if we ignore the telepaths for a moment because there's no way in hell Jean Grey sans Phoenix is taking on Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde.

Scott can clear the field with a GOML blast right, but to do so he'll have to get rid of Shaw first otherwise he'll just amp Sebastian tremendously. So if he knocks Shaw over isn't that giving Leland enough time to cause the entire X-Men team to fall over?

he could. i was just responding to the cyclops "cant blast without supercharging" thing.

i think both teams have it in them to win, which is why i havent decided who i think would be ultimately victorious.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well think about it, if we ignore the telepaths for a moment because there's no way in hell Jean Grey sans Phoenix is taking on Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Scott can clear the field with a GOML blast right, but to do so he'll have to get rid of Shaw first otherwise he'll just amp Sebastian tremendously. So if he knocks Shaw over isn't that giving Leland enough time to cause the entire X-Men team to fall over?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
CIS is still on, but since this is a forum discussion and it's a viable tactic (especially now that Cyclops dropped his qualms about killing), it's solid.

Jean Grey.

In that case, Shadowcat phases him into a wall or the earth.

She stornger then jean and better now

hasent kitty shown to have problems with eletrical attacks while phased? could pierce simply KO her doing one? couldent emma simply shut off her brain?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
true, but I was refferring to visore off lol

well yea the water being there would be a plot device........

Naw I ment shaw jsut throws colossus lol.

also what happens if emma controlled scot mind?

what does his visor being on or off have to do with it?

emma could try that, but jean could easily block her too. and im more inclined to believe that scott has thought more about putting emma down than vice versa.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
when was the last time scot right of the bat took of his visor? when was the last time he actaully took off his visor? what happens when he goes to take it off and emma make him turn toward his teamates killing them all instead?

Scott usually doesn't go full blast because he isn't aiming to kill and a full blast might not accomplish what he wants done. However he does do it when necessary and is more blood thirsty than ever these days.

The most recent instance I can think of is in Astonishing X-Men

Also Emma isn't going to do much of anything as
1. Jean is more than capable of handling her
2. Her human durability (like Mastermind's) is major handicap in this fight.

Originally posted by TheKahn
1. So we're only using low feats for certain characters now? Jean is good enough to [b]at least occupy Emma while one of the other X-men take her out.

2. Mastermind's and Scott's powers would have about the same deploying time (just like everyone else in this fight). The difference is that Scott's is destructive in nature while Mastermind's is not. Also, the X-men know what to expect from Mastermind and I doubt any illusion would take them by surprise to keep Scott from attacking the place where the HC is standing the moment the fight starts. [/B]

Low feats? Which ones are you talking about?

It doesn't work you there are two psi's on one of the teams. Jean is not the one occupying Emma, Emma is the one occupying Jean. See what I did there? They basically take each other out of the equation. There's no way Jean is going to protect her teamates from Mastermind and fight Emma off at the same time she'll be too busy with Emma.

Mastermind is thought. Scott is thought + excution + visor flap motor. And yes Mastermind is that good.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Scott usually doesn't go full blast because he isn't aiming to kill and a full blast might not accomplish what he wants done. However he does do it when necessary and is more blood thirsty than ever these days.

The most recent instance I can think of is in Astonishing X-Men

Also Emma isn't going to do much of anything as
1. Jean is more than capable of handling her
2. Her human durability (like Mastermind's) is major handicap in this fight.

then there's the fact that for two or three solid issues, he was fighting visor-less and still managing to not kill people.

he can do wide blasts that aren't fatal, after all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
then there's the fact that for two or three solid issues, he was fighting visor-less and still managing to not kill people.

he can do wide blasts that aren't fatal, after all.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Isn't Jean sans mental blocks supposed to be up there with Xavier or above in regard to psychic ability?

As is Emma and any other High Order Psi. They basically cancel each other out since the fight will be over in seconds with Mastermind there.
But you know Emma has better feats these days then Jean sans Phoenix.

The X-Men would have a much easier time dealing with an amped Shaw than the entire Hellfire Club working together. [/B]

I'll give you that.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Low feats? Which ones are you talking about?

It doesn't work you there are two psi's on one of the teams. Jean is not the one occupying Emma, Emma is the one occupying Jean. See what I did there? They basically take each other out of the equation. There's no way Jean is going to protect her teamates from Mastermind and fight Emma off at the same time she'll be too busy with Emma.

Mastermind is thought. Scott is thought + excution + visor flap motor. And yes Mastermind is that good.