Originally posted by Battlehammer
I beg to differ. But your stubborn no matter if I showed you 10 times the amount of evidence saying taht type TP would not work or be easy you still not except it lol.
it's not stubbornness. i have read a lot of x-men. we both have. i simply don't see him as being as resilient as you do, based on what i've read. that's it, really...
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
We're talking Jean sans Phoenix her which feats do you have in mind? Emma and Xaveir were called an Omega Class Psi as well but really the term doesn't mean much not on vs. boards anyway. She didn't have her telepathy for most of her life, Emma is far more conniving then Jean especially the way she messed with Xavier when he tried to probe Scott.My point is more down to the fact that Emma can occupy Jean to the point where she won't be able to protect her teamates from Mastermind without the risk of being taken out by Emma. It's two psi talents against one here. Also remember that one second objective time is like minutes on the astral plane.
Not sure with all the retcons if any of Jean's feats can be considered her own and not involving the Pheonix force to some degree (given that they're supposed to be fundamentally linked somehow), but off the top of my head...
Jean completely mindwiped Frenzy into becoming a full fledged X-Man
Telepathically turned off Candy Southern's nerve endings to reduce her pain
Sent a telepathic signal from the moon
Telepathically dumps the equivalent of the encyclopedia into Ciecielia Reyes mind within seconds
Mentally freezing Apocalypse in his tracks
Effecting Magneto through his helmet
Ripping Cassandra Nova out of Xavier's body
Read Weapon 13's mind which consisted of millions and millions of microscopic machine-minds
Telepathically shutting down the Hulk
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He's always been able to target individuals as far as I remember. But an example would be when he mind f*cked the Sentry without hurting the General.
IIRC there was always some limitation on his power. Either he could only affect one person at a time, or he effected everyone within range. Does anybody know for sure or am I mistaken?
Originally posted by -Pr-
it's not stubbornness. i have read a lot of x-men. we both have. i simply don't see him as being as resilient as you do, based on what i've read. that's it, really...
Do you find him to be resilient at all.
also if there 10 times more evidence sayign he resilient then not does it seem to be logic to assume he not?
Originally posted by TheKahn
[B]Not sure with all the retcons if any of Jean's feats can be considered her own and not involving the Pheonix force to some degree (given that they're supposed to be fundamentally linked somehow), but off the top of my head...
Well look at it this way, Jean UXM 1-66 nothing fundamentally impressive done as Marvel Girl. UXM 67-93 are reprints. 94-96 She quits and then rejoins and in the process becomes the Phoenix where her body is cacooned. So that's not Jean but the PF. So Phoenix Rising, DPS wasn't Jean. She was dead till the 250's I think, she returned in X-Factor and only had TK for up to issue 50 or something like that. The cast was changed like 15 issues later. Grant Morrisons New X-Men she began channelling the Phoenix Force spontaneously again and she's been dead for the last few years. Then like you said depending on how you look at it, cause the Phoenix did do something to her DNA during the Inferno but even if you count those you don't have that much to work with. Sure there's plenty of citations stating how powerful she is but Emma had that too in her White Queen days problem was she hardly appeared so she never had much to show for it till now.
Jean completely mindwiped Frenzy into becoming a full fledged X-Man
Telepathically turned off Candy Southern's nerve endings to reduce her pain
Telepathically dumps the equivalent of the encyclopedia into Ciecielia Reyes mind within seconds
That's not that impressive. When Emma was 16 she could do that, when she joined the Hellfire Club she numbed the nerve endings of Lourdes. She gave an entire crowd an telepathically induced orgasm. And Frenzy is back to being an Acolyte.
Sent a telepathic signal from the moon
Wasn't Wolverine the only one who picked up on that signal? And wasn't he in Cable's Graymalkin Space Station when he received it?
Ripping Cassandra Nova out of Xavier's body
Read Weapon 13's mind which consisted of millions and millions of microscopic machine-minds
Phoenix Force involved.
Telepathically shutting down the Hulk
Depending on the version of the Hulk, you're talking a about the one she shut down as Marvel Girl right? Current Hulk is a whole different kettle of fish.
Mentally freezing Apocalypse in his tracks
Was that not explained as Apocalypse lowering his defences to absorb Scott and then Jean working via their rapport?
Effecting Magneto through his helmet
It depends on the version of Magnetos helmet you're using. His helmet never blocked telepathy until the movie and Morrison got his hands on him.
Feats that I can think of are holding her own against Gamemaster one but in the end he tricked her and Joseph was involved. And in that issue he was described as not really being an omnipath.
Jeans telekinetic feats have always been far more impressive then her telepathic abilties but she won't have the use of her telekinesis in this fight. She's scanned the Andes without aid but Emma has 3 feats that have much better range then that. It could actually be 4 now that I think about it there's that Blinded by the Light arc.
See stalemating Exodus and niether one is able to deploy their extra powers in Exodus case his numerous extra powers:
http://img141.imageshack.us/i/scan12ff6.jpg/
http://img155.imageshack.us/i/scan05xz7.jpg
A list of that other stuff I mentioned should be in here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=439489&pagenumber=27
IIRC there was always some limitation on his power. Either he could only affect one person at a time, or he effected everyone within range. Does anybody know for sure or am I mistaken?
I don't believe there was, he has messed with the entire X-Men team as well as individual members eg Toad without effecting the other members of the brotherhood for fun. Claremont made him a lot lot stronger when he became a member of the Hellfire Club.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Do you find him to be resilient at all.also if there 10 times more evidence sayign he resilient then not does it seem to be logic to assume he not?
i never claimed he wasn't resilient. i just see a difference between resilient and immune.
i think he's resilient, but not immune, and if the psi is skilled enough, i don't see why they can't end up making him braid their hair or something if they wanted to.
Originally posted by -Pr-
i never claimed he wasn't resilient. i just see a difference between resilient and immune.i think he's resilient, but not immune, and if the psi is skilled enough, i don't see why they can't end up making him braid their hair or something if they wanted to.
I find it hard to believe she be able to with such ease. Espicially since she ahd problems reaching him twice in new x-men.
Khanster, about this incident:
"Ripping Cassandra Nova out of Xavier's body"
It seems to me like there was a minimal amount of telepathy involved here, and more telekinesis. Xavier had already beaten Cassandra in his own mind and Jean used some sort of blend between the two to force it out. To me it seemed more like a mix of telepathy and telekinesis, then a pure feat.
I still consider jean to be a better telepathy than Slutty McSlut.
