Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'd like to point out, MewTwo maintained his *world encompassing* storm for the entire battle with Mew with no extra effort. Kain's mist will get him where? 😐 TK'd and seperated beyond his own control, and thus, destroyed.
At the same time blocking all other Pokémon from using their abilities.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Calm until the scientists made him realise they were using him and he built up in rage. Either that or M2 is no more powerful older than he was when first awake. Where does your assumption that he got stronger come from? from feats his weak little attacks against Mew hardly did anything to the humans, pokemon and the surrounding area and thats both of them visciously going at it.Obviously he went from anger to anger, rising as did his use of powers, from computer smashing to a final climax of island busting which explains why he is fine when Giovani arrives, he had spent his rage, all makes perfect sense.
Before I answer your question, let me ask you one in return. When exactly is Mewtwo actually angry? He does not raise his voice, he does not exert himself as he did when he was really angry (Giovanni betraying him and during Mewtwo Returns), he does not at any point show irrationality or temperment without control. I assume you interpreted him as angry somepoint after when he concluded that his place was not there, somewhere along his destructive road, since his voice was absolutely calm.
At the end of his destructive session, Mewtwo says to behold his powers, which imply that he simply demonstrated to the world what it had created.
Now over to your question. You ask me what drove me to the conclusion that Mewtwo grew stronger as he grew older. My supposed assumption is based on the appearance that Mewtwo trained his powers at Giovanni's side after the destruction of the lab. When Giovanni approaches Mewtwo, Mewtwo stands firm with the claim that that he is not fully evolved.
As for your theory on Mewtwo climaxing his powers at the end, that is a very loose theory. Mewtwo himself claim that his destruction was a demonstration. He waited for the scientist to finish talking, listened to the scientist praising him, looked the scientist in the eyes and then "climaxed".
Bottom line is; Mewtwo is not angry in the start if comparing to the times we have seen him mad for certain, so your argument is mute. There is no proof that Mewtwo is actually angry in the start. Annoyed at best. We first see Mewtwo express absolute anger when he blow up Giovanni's headquarter after learning that Giovanni considered him merely a tool. A means to an end.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Mewtwo himself claims in the movie that his telekinetic storms can destroy the planet, and he obviously wasn't bluffing, as he was beginning to at first until he changed his mind and decided to stop...Overrated or not, he can do it if he wanted.
So that's it?! All MewTwo's supreme and overhyped power, the power praised by all his fans... Comes from a single statement that got blown out of prportion, that can be interpreted in many different ways, and that can be considered just another case of hyperbole?
Don't make me laugh.
His Pokedex entry from the games say specifically that he has an IQ of 5000... There's your proof. It's not something from just the wiki. I can post a screenshot directly from the game if you think I'm bullshitting.
Thanks.
Forget what I said before. I don't think MewTwo is overrated anymore, because I'm 100% sure of it now.
...and he obviously wasn't bluffing, as he was beginning to at first until he changed his mind and decided to stop...
You quoted this and still missed it, SHM.
Edit: Forget that insta-busting an island lets him solo, or that his team mate probably could, or that he's a planet buster. He can mindrape every member of the other team anyway. 😐 I'm really unsure what you're trying to claim, SHM.
Originally posted by BloodRain
...But... we have the already have the answer... 😕
I am pretty curious to hear when exactly Mewtwo is angry during the lab scenario, as well as his reasoning for his other points. It is no news that Burning Thought does not settle with the open path. He enjoy promenades in dense forests and long walks on stormy beaches.
I like to assess everything, pointless to have an argument or a thread at all if we ignore a huge amount of specific info that could change the fight. Not to mension M2 fans like to overhype his powers to illogical levels and assume feats that are not displayed just because he is a powerful psychic. To find a truthful answer going at it bluntly will find no result, you have to go about it with precision.
You could also watch the movie and be happy with what you see. Things are not always more complicated than they seem.
Take this planet busting idea that people has of Mewtwo for example. Those that came to the conclusion that he could literally bust the planet did not listen to him carefully. His definition of destroying the planet is to kill all humans and Pokémon on it. His storm is there to make that happen. Mewtwo states clearly that he has plans for the world after he has, as he said, destroyed it.
Often, blunt observation take you the farthest. Mewtwo's powers are not as complex as people make them out to be. He is a highly powerful psychic, it is not more complex than that.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'd like to point out, MewTwo maintained his *world encompassing* storm for the entire battle with Mew with no extra effort. Kain's mist will get him where? 😐 TK'd and seperated beyond his own control, and thus, destroyed.
Is this actually stated or assumed because for all you know his initial manipulation of air currents allowed the tornado to sustain itself, its not possible that the hurricane would just drop and cease to excist just because M2 is not manipulating it.
It will get him out of the way of M2 blunt physical assault. And no, simply seperated, you cant really "destroy" mist, it simply transforms from one thing to another and that happens outside of M2 control.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Whats so hard about two currents to a whole hurricane... Hasnt been distorted because Kain IS the mist so a small breeze wont separate, an overwhelming TK will. So now youre saying its less misty and more Kain? Does it matter what shape its in? If its mist it can be separated.^ Canon. ''The user stops the opponent from attacking.'' attacks 'are' powers.
Since you asked so nicely;
YouTube video
1:05. No movement and in pain.'Grip' is something he cant do without control of the hand. With the muscles, tendons and nerves being unused the hand would go limp. Try hold something with a loose hand.
Pkmn world is different to others, anything teleported doesn't fade in. By they way they work they cant be made by normal means, which leads to his powers. Yeah, im positive. Leading to the last attack each barrier was used as an offensively, hence the blast and discharge.''You... No - Raziel- (...) -I didn't-'' *stab* especiallt the shocked look when saying 'i didnt part' that sounded scared.
Im guessing its stated somewhere that without the heart he doesnt need to feed? Actually if you want to throw around logic then what you said is illogical. Eg if his powers come from he mind, and is now not connected to his arm. Unless his arm can turn itself into mist?3 mid high hits, id be worried if he was harmed from that, doubt he was going all out if he decided to stop or not use a sword. The back is used in 90% of punches, at least a good one. Im pointing out that it isnt needed as much as when lifting.
Because there is little evidence to suggest he can do anything but send the air currents moving, holding them and keeping them steady he has not done, only moved them. Actually gripping what makes up a weather is not what I have seen from M2. Depends, Kains supernatural mist does not seem harmed in the least by the beating sun in some of his levels which should change mist as soon as he becomes it, even if its slow evaporation of vapour.
Thats not true, "attacks" or "attacking" can mean a lot of things, you cannot assume it means non phyiscal magic powers that M2 has afaik had zero experiance with. Thanks but I must point out that he was indeed moving, his arms and hands seem to tense and shake and his face was able to contort as he was being lifted, obviously not a complete freeze of his motion. Also whats more important is that Kain is even stronger than this and could despite how weak his TK still push against being held or touched by M2s powers, M2 can either attempt to hold something OR use enough Tk power to destroy it, if he is only using enough to hold Kain then Kain can easily defend himself as Kain has lifted far more than his own weight.
Thats an assumption, your assuming that M2 is actually stopping control of their body, what I belive is happening is that his strength of TK is holding them still, but not necesserily making them lose their bodily control e.g. they can still tense or hold an object, like in your example in your video he could still tense and show pain.
I admit Kain was shocked but he was imporing Raziel not to do anything based on the fact he was nothing to do with Raziel being drawn into the blade. No its not stated, I doubt its stated M2 can lift a grocery basket with his powers but its an obvious given based on what he can already do. Kains body has no reason to sustain itself on anything and its canonically stated to be alive because of one thing, he is the scion of balance. Theres a difference between the mind, and the brain sir, Kains mind is not physical (actually nobodies is, the brain it comes from is) therefore his arm or leg or head being seperated would make no logical difference to his soul and mental powers, just like how he can still think, feel and exist as not only millions of vapourous particles in his mist form but also a weather system....
3 mid high hits from an angry Raziel with his strength and claws that can slice through concrete is pretty iimpressive, Kain does not even look as if he felt any pain at all as if the blows did not even graze him....its impressive however way you look at it in this situation.
Originally posted by Rapidash
Before I answer your question, let me ask you one in return. When exactly is Mewtwo actually angry? He does not raise his voice, he does not exert himself as he did when he was really angry (Giovanni betraying him and during Mewtwo Returns), he does not at any point show irrationality or temperment without control. I assume you interpreted him as angry somepoint after when he concluded that his place was not there, somewhere along his destructive road, since his voice was absolutely calm.
At the end of his destructive session, Mewtwo says to behold his powers, which imply that he simply demonstrated to the world what it had created.Now over to your question. You ask me what drove me to the conclusion that Mewtwo grew stronger as he grew older. My supposed assumption is based on the appearance that Mewtwo trained his powers at Giovanni's side after the destruction of the lab. When Giovanni approaches Mewtwo, Mewtwo stands firm with the claim that that he is not fully evolved.
As for your theory on Mewtwo climaxing his powers at the end, that is a very loose theory. Mewtwo himself claim that his destruction was a demonstration. He waited for the scientist to finish talking, listened to the scientist praising him, looked the scientist in the eyes and then "climaxed".
Bottom line is; Mewtwo is not angry in the start if comparing to the times we have seen him mad for certain, so your argument is mute. There is no proof that Mewtwo is actually angry in the start. Annoyed at best. We first see Mewtwo express absolute anger when he blow up Giovanni's headquarter after learning that Giovanni considered him merely a tool. A means to an end.
He looks angry when he is smashing the computers, why else would he suddenly and visciously assault the facility? His voice being calm does not necesserily mean he is not angry , you dont have to shout, bellow or curse to be angry, infact silent brimming anger can end up worse which is no wonder why he let loose such mental attacks and wiped out the whole island.
But training a power such as one that is mental does not necesserily mean is more powerful, just more controlled, he may have better use of it such as the control of air currents with the hurriance or with more precision e.g. when lifting up things. Did M2 show a barrier or shadow ball before he trained with Giovani, perhaps he learnt those techniques there, I am not sure.
Is there a better video of the M2 video? an actual minute by minute capture of the film on youtube because all I can find is youtube videos that mix and match scenes with background music.
Wiping out the island a demonstration? for whom exactly if he wiped them all out? seems unlikely....
Originally posted by Rapidash
You could also watch the movie and be happy with what you see. Things are not always more complicated than they seem.Take this planet busting idea that people has of Mewtwo for example. Those that came to the conclusion that he could literally bust the planet did not listen to him carefully. His definition of destroying the planet is to kill all humans and Pokémon on it. His storm is there to make that happen. Mewtwo states clearly that he has plans for the world after he has, as he said, destroyed it.
Often, blunt observation take you the farthest. Mewtwo's powers are not as complex as people make them out to be. He is a highly powerful psychic, it is not more complex than that.
They have to be in an argument, especially when people can interpret what they see differently. I see anger when M2 is wrecking things, perhaps you think he just demontrating power, either way its still important to look into how he does it, his psychic powers do not erupt out of him without control therefore its important to look into details, when assessing these characters, some of which have Tk albiet inferior its important to note the varied strength of M2 showings of power, some of his Tk uses are minor, some are major, some do not look like directed TK at all, just explosions of force like when the robotic arms attack him.
Well exactly, you just outlined why just watching it and looking at things at base value is not always a good way to argue something as usually people see things diffrently, assume things based on what they see and call them fact, this planet busting idea is a good example.
Maybe they are not complex but he has varied showings, as I said above he has done so many things with TK, mostly physical not semi-physical e.g. weather control. Are there any specifics on what he did to create the hurricane btw? does he say in detail how he did it?
Originally posted by Burning thought
He looks angry when he is smashing the computers, why else would he suddenly and visciously assault the facility? His voice being calm does not necesserily mean he is not angry , you dont have to shout, bellow or curse to be angry, infact silent brimming anger can end up worse which is no wonder why he let loose such mental attacks and wiped out the whole island.But training a power such as one that is mental does not necesserily mean is more powerful, just more controlled, he may have better use of it such as the control of air currents with the hurriance or with more precision e.g. when lifting up things. Did M2 show a barrier or shadow ball before he trained with Giovani, perhaps he learnt those techniques there, I am not sure.
Is there a better video of the M2 video? an actual minute by minute capture of the film on youtube because all I can find is youtube videos that mix and match scenes with background music.
Wiping out the island a demonstration? for whom exactly if he wiped them all out? seems unlikely....
They have to be in an argument, especially when people can interpret what they see differently. I see anger when M2 is wrecking things, perhaps you think he just demontrating power, either way its still important to look into how he does it, his psychic powers do not erupt out of him without control therefore its important to look into details, when assessing these characters, some of which have Tk albiet inferior its important to note the varied strength of M2 showings of power, some of his Tk uses are minor, some are major, some do not look like directed TK at all, just explosions of force like when the robotic arms attack him.
Well exactly, you just outlined why just watching it and looking at things at base value is not always a good way to argue something as usually people see things diffrently, assume things based on what they see and call them fact, this planet busting idea is a good example.
Maybe they are not complex but he has varied showings, as I said above he has done so many things with TK, mostly physical not semi-physical e.g. weather control. Are there any specifics on what he did to create the hurricane btw? does he say in detail how he did it?
He looks angry? You mean his eyes? They look the same every time you see him, excluding his period of torture during Mewtwo Returns. Take a look at this video for example. Can you at any point in the movie claim that he does not look angry?
My point is that Mewtwo always looks angry. There are points in that movie when he is amused, surprised, sad, angry and happy but he looks angry during each one of those times. Bottom line is that Mewtwo is not angry, just because he looks angry. Anger is his default appearance, even when he is indifferent. So since we can not depend on his appearance to tell, we must depend on his tone of voice.
Before Mewtwo went to train with Giovanni, he showed no signs of shadow attacks or anything like that. It is likely that he learnt it during his time with his so called partner. It is however very farfetched to claim that Mewtwo dropped in firepower as he grew in control. This mostly because he is seen to use the same attack to destroy Giovanni's Headquarters that he used against Giovanni's Lab. In Mewtwo Returns, the crater he form at the end is larger than both Giovanni's Headquarter and the Lab in the first movie.
For whom? Seems unlikely? You have not seen the movie, have you? Mewtwo talk to himself all the time. In both the first and the second movie. And when there is no one around, it is even more reasonable to think that it is true since he has no reason to lie to himself. When he stand above the ruin, he clarify that it was a demonstration of what they have created.
I myself find it more unlikely that Mewtwo would lie to himself when there is no one around, than that what he was doing was an actual demonstration of his power. It is more likely that he wanted the last things the scientist to see was what dangerous forces they had been meddling in.
I have bought the movie and if you want to watch it, I can only suggest you to do the same.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes we do, two different answers. Ofc if your happy enough with your answer and do not want to argue then I am certainly happy with mine 🙂
Originally posted by Burning thought
In the world its mentioned in attacks are powers, even if M2 doesn't know what the opponent can do Disable will null it. Not a concious movement. More like a pain/stress reflex in the body. Like getting a static shock will make your body react with out your control. Doesn't matter if Kain is stronger it M2 can just change the power needed to disable him. (Same as lifting a pkmn then putting more into it to lift something 20x heavier.) Doubt his TK will help him much, and physically breaking out would not happen. He'd have to have strength above M2s TK strength, something that manipulating something as heavy as a hurricane. [Still cant believe how heavy they are]
Power of M2 combined with the effect of disable would lead to those results. Showing pain is an involuntary response cause by the body (Said above ^)
Not necessarily as M2 has shown us that he can lift that while Kain has not shown anything to prove otherwise. That sounds similar to many other statements of people eg: ''The reason im alive is to stop blah blah blah...'' <- wont stop this guy from needing to eat. I'll need to see this statement.
The mind is still a stream of conciousness formed by the brain. Kains mist is not 100% the same as normal mist as you have mentioned, especially the fact that he can he can kill in tangible ways... If he was actual mist he wouldnt be restricted to the ground either. Only way that the reattachment is logical is IF Kain holds the part that fell off then becomes mist, which still doesnt explain how he attaches it while being mist. ^only fairly logical, so if his head was gone hed be stuck. (Weather system?)
To a point that a high angry move would pierce Kain. Ant that was the third game right, by the fight at the 'heart of darkness' scene they're alot more even then before.
[Cant stop thinking Nightcrawler when i see Raziel >_<😉