Originally posted by Burning thought
🙄 unconcious how exactly? Kain had to have the means of his very excistence torn out of him to be knocked out for what had to be at most a few minutes....not that anyone here can do this.How are you sure this mistake could not occur? M2 still as I siad has no mental defences, simple fact it seems. So he is easily going to be mind controlled and his fair game for Kain to use on the battlefield, it will quickl become 4 vs Samus.... How can you not seen how M2 would die from shock/probing of his own blood flooding his system or if were not going to think outside the box, pouring out of his nose/mouth or trying to escape through his body towards Kain? he cant.....and if he tried to go into his own body which is a very big assumption if he can even do it, he would kill himself because his Tk is even stronger than Kains.
m2 cannot Tk "hold" Kain because Kain can teleport/mist form, thus breaking the hold. Because first TK in Lok seems to work differently, its not coming from Kain in a beam or wave that can be pushed back, Kains powers appear on the body of his opponent and he throws them around, if M2 wants to forcefully push the TK from his own body (if he can) then he will end up tearing himself in half from the inside if you claim his Tk is so strong. Kains gains air from teleportation and levitating.
1. Him being fast is pointless, Kain as I said slows time with hs powers, M2 would be slowed down by I think it was about 60% or more. And teleportation> speed combined with time slow.
2. So his teleporting is not better then...okThe purpose of Kains power was to manipulate blood, the fact he called it to himself with Tk was all he did in-game, but outside of the box and gmaeplay restrictions all he would do differenly is move his hand up or down (heart/brain) instead of towards himself.
Barrer protects from physical attacks, Kain uses very few of them tbh, only his sword which is perhapos the least dangerous of his powers. M2 speed and psychic powers are useless, psychic because Kain is fast enough to escape through mist or teleport and speed because of time abilities and Kains own teleport.
Unconscious was just a 'meh, ill turn this line around' for the hell of it. ;p
Now where where we... I dont think anyone is going to try persuade M2 follow them, no relevance. For just being a psychic pkmn he has the ability for mental defence as he does mental attack, and hes the top of the line on psychics. And Kains trying to control a mind as complex and powerful as M2s? Not gonna happpen. Still havnt seen him doing these blood feats, never the less one move out of this is like you say, teleport out of it. Even crushing him with a TK force would work. Yes, his TK is vastly stronger then Kains but he doesnt have to use a huge surge to use it fight him off.
In fact he 'can' hold Kain as the mist is a substance much like clouds, going back to the hurricane feat. Teleport wont work if hes already been caught, as other pkmn such as (again) Alakazam could of done the same. Only way for that to work is to teleport 'before' he's held, would still have to be out of M2s range which is extremely large. You're right M2 would tear himself in two to fight off Kains... If he did it on M2 before he met Giovani and had no control of what de does. Strong yes but its all about control over it which M2 has. Levitate like M2 does or is it more like hovering?
At 40% he's at the average pkmn speed, at least he wont be drastically slow(mental abilities speed is still above average). A barrier he puts up would stay up for the duration of the slow-down, teleporting being an instant thing can take him out of the 20m range. I assume he cant keep it up forever. I referenced that i didnt say the words faster teleporting, nothing more. Teleporting is teleporting, only thing to compare is speed of activation, range and if its able to take passengers.
The barrier variation 'Safeguard'; ''A large barrier forms around it, repelling all attacks from it.'' ''A force field appears, preventing anything from getting through.'' <- Self explanatory; mental assaults and blood manipulation will have to go through this. Kinda like a barrier to protect the pkmns health.
A hand movement to move M2s blood < A glance that can crush Kain. All it would take is a focused attack on Kain, as you said his TK is not as strong as M2s he has no way to defend himself.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Unconscious was just a 'meh, ill turn this line around' for the hell of it. ;pNow where where we... I dont think anyone is going to try persuade M2 follow them, no relevance. For just being a psychic pkmn he has the ability for mental defence as he does mental attack, and hes the top of the line on psychics. And Kains trying to control a mind as complex and powerful as M2s? Not gonna happpen. Still havnt seen him doing these blood feats, never the less one move out of this is like you say, teleport out of it. Even crushing him with a TK force would work. Yes, his TK is vastly stronger then Kains but he doesnt have to use a huge surge to use it fight him off.
In fact he 'can' hold Kain as the mist is a substance much like clouds, going back to the hurricane feat. Teleport wont work if hes already been caught, as other pkmn such as (again) Alakazam could of done the same. Only way for that to work is to teleport 'before' he's held, would still have to be out of M2s range which is extremely large. You're right M2 would tear himself in two to fight off Kains... If he did it on M2 before he met Giovani and had no control of what de does. Strong yes but its all about control over it which M2 has. Levitate like M2 does or is it more like hovering?
At 40% he's at the average pkmn speed, at least he wont be drastically slow(mental abilities speed is still above average). A barrier he puts up would stay up for the duration of the slow-down, teleporting being an instant thing can take him out of the 20m range. I assume he cant keep it up forever. I referenced that i didnt say the words faster teleporting, nothing more. Teleporting is teleporting, only thing to compare is speed of activation, range and if its able to take passengers.
The barrier variation 'Safeguard'; ''A large barrier forms around it, repelling all attacks from it.'' ''A force field appears, preventing anything from getting through.'' <- Self explanatory; mental assaults and blood manipulation will have to go through this. Kinda like a barrier to protect the pkmns health.
A hand movement to move M2s blood < A glance that can crush Kain. All it would take is a focused attack on Kain, as you said his TK is not as strong as M2s he has no way to defend himself.
I support this message.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Unconscious was just a 'meh, ill turn this line around' for the hell of it. ;pNow where where we... I dont think anyone is going to try persuade M2 follow them, no relevance. For just being a psychic pkmn he has the ability for mental defence as he does mental attack, and hes the top of the line on psychics. And Kains trying to control a mind as complex and powerful as M2s? Not gonna happpen. Still havnt seen him doing these blood feats, never the less one move out of this is like you say, teleport out of it. Even crushing him with a TK force would work. Yes, his TK is vastly stronger then Kains but he doesnt have to use a huge surge to use it fight him off.
In fact he 'can' hold Kain as the mist is a substance much like clouds, going back to the hurricane feat. Teleport wont work if hes already been caught, as other pkmn such as (again) Alakazam could of done the same. Only way for that to work is to teleport 'before' he's held, would still have to be out of M2s range which is extremely large. You're right M2 would tear himself in two to fight off Kains... If he did it on M2 before he met Giovani and had no control of what de does. Strong yes but its all about control over it which M2 has. Levitate like M2 does or is it more like hovering?
At 40% he's at the average pkmn speed, at least he wont be drastically slow(mental abilities speed is still above average). A barrier he puts up would stay up for the duration of the slow-down, teleporting being an instant thing can take him out of the 20m range. I assume he cant keep it up forever. I referenced that i didnt say the words faster teleporting, nothing more. Teleporting is teleporting, only thing to compare is speed of activation, range and if its able to take passengers.
The barrier variation 'Safeguard'; ''A large barrier forms around it, repelling all attacks from it.'' ''A force field appears, preventing anything from getting through.'' <- Self explanatory; mental assaults and blood manipulation will have to go through this. Kinda like a barrier to protect the pkmns health.
A hand movement to move M2s blood < A glance that can crush Kain. All it would take is a focused attack on Kain, as you said his TK is not as strong as M2s he has no way to defend himself.
m2 mind is not complex, prove its any more difficult to MC him than a normal human being? as I said hes no real defence nor has he had to defend so he would not have any experiance in trying to defend himself. He wouldnt even know Kains doing it, Kain would suddenly have him under control in just a few seconds and he ould never have had a chance to protect himself.
Assuming Allakazam could have done the same is poor, if they did not do it, could have just been plot induced stupidity. TK is telekeinetic bonds on a physical level, Kain teleporting would remove his physical self for the time it takes him to appear agian which means the TK would be holding nothing and break. hovering, Kain would have to teleport higher to keep himself in the air. If he did not teleport, he would slowly float to the ground.
His own movements would be slow enough for Kain to teleport to continue his assault before M2 can counter attack, as he still has to gesture/conentrate for his powers, which ofc would take a lot of time under the effects of the time stasis. The TK barrier would be helpess against a spell or a TK force that originates from Kain or inside M2 shield, like blood manip.
No, false, the barrier is a barrier around his body, blood mainpulation would happen from inside this barrier, since its from inside M2. Its like holding up a shield only to have the attack go off inside you or behind your protection.
But as I said, this glance takes some chargingi, M2 when he first awoke glowed for about 3/4 seconds before his TK started doing anything. And as I said, Kain would prob teleport as his first move to an area not in M2 direct view so that he has some time to activate his own Tk, which ofc would be the end of M2 as his blood sprays from his body. Also what are you assuming M2 will do first? activate his shield? attack Kain with TK?
Kain turning into mist would mean M2 would have to direct his attack on mist which ofc would not kill Kain unless m2 has the ability to atomize mist particles, he would also have to go from a brunt physical blast which was meant to kill Kain physically to a weather controlling movement, all these things take time and Kain can teleport/mist form etc just as quickly as it takes M2 to realise this and attempt to change tactics. This is while Sephiroth is prob tossing him around with TK too, unlike Kain, Sephiroth has shown to be able to TK several entities at once.
Let us consider that Alakazam's brain is so large and advanced that it's IQ measures 5000. It is also so well-practiced in the use of TK, that it uses TK casually to manipulate it's own body. In addition, it remembers everything it has ever experienced from birth.
MewTwo has defeated two Alakazams, if I recall correctly, in psychic battles. He has also erased the memory of an Alakazam.
Kain has no defense against any of this, neither does Kratos or Sephiroth. /thread
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Non-canon brawlcrap detected!The Hyper Beam (from Super Metroid) and Phazon Beam is better anyway IMO.
^^; Not played many Metroid games... and Zero laser just sounds better x]
Originally posted by Burning thought
For one a certain gym leader can mess with normal people with her psychic powers, cept for her father because his powers resisted hers. Normal people<The dad<<<x99 M2. Plain to see that it is complex, plus him being so much smarter then Kain helps out. To your 'never experienced', he spent the whole time with his MC puppet learning all about pkmn which means he knows of any of the pkmns mind control. Not far-fetched to say he learnt how to protect himself from it.
Could of been PIS, could of been M2s obvious towering TK overrides Alakazams weaker powers including teleporting. Could of been a few things but the latter make alot more sense :/ linked to this is your claim of Kain still being able to escape. If ^Zam was held by TK, by your theory he should of been able to use his psychic attacks/defences. Alas it did not happen.
Teleporting is an instant action, an example is playing(for example only) SSBmelee at 25% speed, Mewtwo(or any persons dodge) can still instantly activate it. No gesture needed. No it is in fact true and is undebatable as that is their designated effect, M2 can learn around 5 other barrier type moves should his TK or normal barrier not work. For the love of... M2 when he first woke up? ❌ You mean when he used his powers for the first time, before was able to control his power? And what simple move took 3/4 seconds? The blue energy around him was unconcentrated loosed energy. You make it sound like he charges like DBZ.
Lets see he looked at the floor/wall and straight away it cracks and implodes, and made a shield that was strong enough to 'disintegrate' those 40ish metal arms. Any of those can be used on Kain with successful results. (Remember those two moves where before he could properly use his power, unlike the M2 here)
How long do you think it takes to put up a shield or use TK? Grab before he moves- Barrier the sec he moves- Teleport when Kain does- So much he can do. Let me throw this at you; If M2 did what you said Kain would for his first move,(teleport behind Kain and TK him) is there anything he can do to prevent it? He has less spacial awareness then M2 and cannot produce a shield either... Now what? You've made good way to catch Kain by this reverse.
Ok if I had M2s powers and I saw Kain turn into mist, it would take a second to realise 'I should grab the mist' and TK it. Now lets I have the average IQ of around 100(not my IQ btw lol) ^Zam has an IQ of 5000 and M2 is smarter then that... Himself in this situation would know whats happening when it happens. Mist is useless =[
(Oh and saying M2 takes 3/4 seconds to use his powers then saying ''Kain can teleport/mist form etc just as quickly as it takes M2 to realise this and attempt to change tactics.'' would mean that Kain takes 3/4 seconds to act. Not saying anything just pointing it out ^^)
Is becoming mist the only way out of being crushed?
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let us consider that Alakazam's brain is so large and advanced that it's IQ measures 5000. It is also so well-practiced in the use of TK, that it uses TK casually to manipulate it's own body. In addition, it remembers everything it has ever experienced from birth.MewTwo has defeated two Alakazams, if I recall correctly, in psychic battles. He has also erased the memory of an Alakazam.
Kain has no defense against any of this, neither does Kratos or Sephiroth. /thread
Kain is immune to mind control far more advanced than M2 has shown and this is the weakest Kain, Kain is not like 10k years old, has the powers of said vampire and has evolved over the years...from a very obscure memory I seem to remember that kids defeated an Allakazams mind games, or someones mind games who was a psychic but i cannot remember.
Originally posted by BloodRain
For one a certain gym leader can mess with normal people with her psychic powers, cept for her father because his powers resisted hers. Normal people<The dad<<<x99 M2. Plain to see that it is complex, plus him being so much smarter then Kain helps out. To your 'never experienced', he spent the whole time with his MC puppet learning all about pkmn which means he knows of any of the pkmns mind control. Not far-fetched to say he learnt how to protect himself from it.Could of been PIS, could of been M2s obvious towering TK overrides Alakazams weaker powers including teleporting. Could of been a few things but the latter make alot more sense :/ linked to this is your claim of Kain still being able to escape. If ^Zam was held by TK, by your theory he should of been able to use his psychic attacks/defences. Alas it did not happen.
Teleporting is an instant action, an example is playing(for example only) SSBmelee at 25% speed, Mewtwo(or any persons dodge) can still instantly activate it. No gesture needed. No it is in fact true and is undebatable as that is their designated effect, M2 can learn around 5 other barrier type moves should his TK or normal barrier not work. For the love of... M2 when he first woke up? ❌ You mean when he used his powers for the first time, before was able to control his power? And what simple move took 3/4 seconds? The blue energy around him was unconcentrated loosed energy. You make it sound like he charges like DBZ.
Lets see he looked at the floor/wall and straight away it cracks and implodes, and made a shield that was strong enough to 'disintegrate' those 40ish metal arms. Any of those can be used on Kain with successful results. (Remember those two moves where before he could properly use his power, unlike the M2 here)How long do you think it takes to put up a shield or use TK? Grab before he moves- Barrier the sec he moves- Teleport when Kain does- So much he can do. Let me throw this at you; If M2 did what you said Kain would for his first move,(teleport behind Kain and TK him) is there anything he can do to prevent it? He has less spacial awareness then M2 and cannot produce a shield either... Now what? You've made good way to catch Kain by this reverse.
Ok if I had M2s powers and I saw Kain turn into mist, it would take a second to realise 'I should grab the mist' and TK it. Now lets I have the average IQ of around 100(not my IQ btw lol) ^Zam has an IQ of 5000 and M2 is smarter then that... Himself in this situation would know whats happening when it happens. Mist is useless =[
(Oh and saying M2 takes 3/4 seconds to use his powers then saying ''Kain can teleport/mist form etc just as quickly as it takes M2 to realise this and attempt to change tactics.'' would mean that Kain takes 3/4 seconds to act. Not saying anything just pointing it out ^^)Is becoming mist the only way out of being crushed?
For this to relate to m2 at all it would take an incredible amount of assumption, we would have to assume M2 knew of these particulour pokemon, THEN we had to assume he attempted to learn their power, then we have to assume if his level of ability is any use....too many assumptions, if we stack enough assumptions (or facts imo) Kain would be nigh omnipotent. It doesnt work that way.
once again, assumptions. What we know is TK is physical, theres no reason why Allakazam couldnt have teleported unless ofc Allakazam needs to make a gesture or movement and he was too restricted to do so.....
An instant action is determined still by time, if M2 really can instantly without any movement or concentration teleport then perhaps it will be instant but then again, while trapped in time, him fading in or out of teleportion may be slowed to a degree that Kain could slash him still. Claiming something is unbeatable is a no limit fallacy, you have to show feats for what barrier has actually absorbed/reflected. By its physical logic in the fact its just a field around M2 (a bubble?) its not protecting his inner body, if the shield is not being hit then its useless like in the case of mind control, Kains Tk and some spells. He concentrates to use his powers in that opening vid, his eyes glow, psychic energy glows around him and he lets it loose. Show me him instantly witohut any charge crushing someone like you think he will do against kain please.
Ive not seen M2 open his shield but I know Kain could have faded into teleport before he can do much more than perhaps grab him with TK, if that. If he does or attempts to attack Kain, Kain can go in and out of Tk on a whim without trouble, M2 still has to concentrate/find kain and propel his attacks. Less special awareness than M2? whats this based on? ive not seen any extra awareness from M2 personally....and if Kain teleports from the beginning then M2 will not know where he is, if M2 teleports then hes in more trouble because he could end up being at an angle where he still cannot see Kain, in which case the first one to see the other is based on luck. By then however Kain could have put up his time powers, repel shield and mind controlled/killed Samus.
And in that second, Kain could be solid again...or have teleported. mist form is perfect for escpaing TK and if he decides to concentrate on a new attack to effect mist, it would be too late.
Becoming mist and teleporting, if m2 crushes him then he just turns to mist and reforms, M2 has no way of actually annhilating mist/atomising it afaik...
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain is immune to mind control far more advanced than M2 has shown and this is the weakest Kain, Kain is not like 10k years old, has the powers of said vampire and has evolved over the years...from a very obscure memory I seem to remember that kids defeated an Allakazams mind games, or someones mind games who was a psychic but i cannot remember.
Kain isn't immune to anything. Right now you're suggesting some fool who controlled some peasants has more powerful psychic abilities than something able to best the most powerful mind in Pokemon.
He's never shown any resistance to anything as powerful as MewTwo, and even if MewTwo couldn't just erase Kain's memory or turn him into a puppet, Kain still has no way he can win.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Kain isn't immune to anything. Right now you're suggesting some fool who controlled some peasants has more powerful psychic abilities than something able to best the most powerful mind in Pokemon.He's never shown any resistance to anything as powerful as MewTwo, and even if MewTwo couldn't just erase Kain's memory or turn him into a puppet, Kain still has no way he can win.
Peasants( small army of soldiers, knights war priests etc) are far more than nothing that Kazam and M2 have. And besting the most powerful mind in pokemon is nothing if its just in a physical bout or mind wipe, that kazam has no resistance, no ability to protect itself from mental control unlike Kain 🙂
M2 has zero feats of MC so no, Kain has the mentla resistance here. mind wiping<<mind controlling x the amount of soldiers Marcus could control. Kain is also far more intelligent and more evolved than his younger form now as well so he would be more than enough to laugh at any attempt of M2 entering his mind, the little thing would die of shock to look into Kains mind 😆
kain can win through a vast number of ways, blood control, sword slashes, mind control, magic, time powers etc M2 has to work very hard and rely on luck if he can even hope to stop Kain alone....thats forgetting Sephiroth could also mess him about and toss M2 around with his own Tk. M2 cant be everywhere and use every power at once...
I am curious where is the quote that claims M2 has a mind as fast as a Super computer, ive been researching M2 over the last hour and cannot find it. Ive also obserbed that it seems during the Mew vs M2 fight, every attack M2 barrier is hit by deactivates it making me wonder if its actually in canon a shield that protects only for a short duration or for one strike only. Or perhaps it needs to take certain amount of damage to be reduced....
Hes too slow, has less distance than the others. Hes a physical character facing fast opponents with powerful long range weapons. Both of them prob have ways of nullifying his attacks or making him even slower/them faster so in the end he will likely do very little unless some team work allows Sephiroth or Kain to Tk launch Kratos at enemies or some such lol....
Originally posted by Burning thought
Peasants( small army of soldiers, knights war priests etc) are far more than nothing that Kazam and M2 have. And besting the most powerful mind in pokemon is nothing if its just in a physical bout or mind wipe, that kazam has no resistance, no ability to protect itself from mental control unlike Kain 🙂M2 has zero feats of MC so no, Kain has the mentla resistance here. mind wiping<<mind controlling x the amount of soldiers Marcus could control. Kain is also far more intelligent and more evolved than his younger form now as well so he would be more than enough to laugh at any attempt of M2 entering his mind, the little thing would die of shock to look into Kains mind 😆
kain can win through a vast number of ways, blood control, sword slashes, mind control, magic, time powers etc M2 has to work very hard and rely on luck if he can even hope to stop Kain alone....thats forgetting Sephiroth could also mess him about and toss M2 around with his own Tk. M2 cant be everywhere and use every power at once...
Okay, here's what I'd like you to do: redirect your eyesight to my previous post. Now, begin by looking at the word "Kain." Continue by moving your eyes to the right and looking at every word you look over on the way, comprehending what each word means in succession. When you get to a point where the words stop and there is nothing but blank space, DON'T PANIC. Simply move back over to the word on the far left, in this case it is "Kain" and look slightly lower. This is the next line of my post, look over this line too.
Please continue in this fashion until you have reached the point of the post where moving to the next line results in more blank space. This point is better known to some as the end of the post.
I'm not showing you the evidence again. You've seen it all more times than is needed for a small rodent to recognize it as better feats than anything Kain has.
It's a shame though. The only time I've ever asked you to do anything for me and you can't do it.
I recommend finishing elementary school. There you will develop the skills you need to continue your education and become a functioning member of society.