Originally posted by BloodRain
Has he shown the capability to manipulate the nerves to play puppet with someone? Not the same as simply stopping their movement.
Not sure if that is true, but lets drop this and say he caused them be unable to control thier bodies by making them flail around randomly.
Originally posted by BloodRain
A good feat, but one that wont help that much in this fight. You know why he let them rest in front of him, be a lot easier to let them fall to death. :/
CIS! Sephiroth is a cocky SoB! I think it would help.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Manifest/materialized, not sure about this as a part of Seph became them. Making from them from nothing is necessarily implied.
Sephiroth is manifested in them, because they are alive which is proof of Sephiroths existance. That is what that means. I assume that was "not necessarily implied"? Clarify please.
Originally posted by BloodRain
created by the strength of the man’s willHe was not using his own powers to make them, his Will yes but the power came from the Lifestream. He found three appearences that were similar to his own. Basically he used the Lifestream to put give the memories a form again with himself mixed in. Impressive to make, not from his powers though.
I isolated the most important part which clearly states he used his own Will (And he also used his Negative Lifestream) to create them the only thing he got from the Lifestream were images to create them from.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Aerith has the potential to make her own remnants using the Lifestream. If shes not near his power and she is able to create them, it shows that its not that hard of a feat. For those of you that ive in the Lifestream)
It never stated she had the potential, she could try but that doesn't mean she would succeed.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Yay for new computer 👆
Took me a while to build it, but it is freakin awesome!
Originally posted by XanatosForever
Kills everything? Would think the context would be pretty obvious. 😬
I see so if God, Theodore Logan and chuck norris were standing near it they would die? no....
I highly doubt it kills"everything", I assume its just an explosion although if you want to be so direct and all it does is "kill" everything then Kain is already dead and it does nothing to him? 😉
Originally posted by Burning thought
I see so if God, Theodore Logan and chuck norris were standing near it they would die? no....I highly doubt it kills"everything", I assume its just an explosion although if you want to be so direct and all it does is "kill" everything then Kain is already dead and it does nothing to him? 😉
Technically, Kain is a living dead.
Originally posted by Burning thought
For this to relate to m2 at all it would take an incredible amount of assumption, we would have to assume M2 knew of these particulour pokemon, THEN we had to assume he attempted to learn their power, then we have to assume if his level of ability is any use....too many assumptions, if we stack enough assumptions (or facts imo) Kain would be nigh omnipotent. It doesnt work that way.once again, assumptions. What we know is TK is physical, theres no reason why Allakazam couldnt have teleported unless ofc Allakazam needs to make a gesture or movement and he was too restricted to do so.....
An instant action is determined still by time, if M2 really can instantly without any movement or concentration teleport then perhaps it will be instant but then again, while trapped in time, him fading in or out of teleportion may be slowed to a degree that Kain could slash him still. Claiming something is unbeatable is a no limit fallacy, you have to show feats for what barrier has actually absorbed/reflected. By its physical logic in the fact its just a field around M2 (a bubble?) its not protecting his inner body, if the shield is not being hit then its useless like in the case of mind control, Kains Tk and some spells. He concentrates to use his powers in that opening vid, his eyes glow, psychic energy glows around him and he lets it loose. Show me him instantly witohut any charge crushing someone like you think he will do against kain please.
Ive not seen M2 open his shield but I know Kain could have faded into teleport before he can do much more than perhaps grab him with TK, if that. If he does or attempts to attack Kain, Kain can go in and out of Tk on a whim without trouble, M2 still has to concentrate/find kain and propel his attacks. Less special awareness than M2? whats this based on? ive not seen any extra awareness from M2 personally....and if Kain teleports from the beginning then M2 will not know where he is, if M2 teleports then hes in more trouble because he could end up being at an angle where he still cannot see Kain, in which case the first one to see the other is based on luck. By then however Kain could have put up his time powers, repel shield and mind controlled/killed Samus.
And in that second, Kain could be solid again...or have teleported. mist form is perfect for escpaing TK and if he decides to concentrate on a new attack to effect mist, it would be too late.
Becoming mist and teleporting, if m2 crushes him then he just turns to mist and reforms, M2 has no way of actually annhilating mist/atomising it afaik...
You assume I assume too much, thats a bad assumption. First he knows them like a pkmn scientists knows them, as he made a clone machine 2.0 he knows of all of the pkmn. Last ones not really much of an assumption. So it does relate to M2. No pkmn needs a gesture to teleport, when Zam flinched its obvious anything he had in his arsenal was null to the effect of M2s TK.
This ''may be slowed so Kain can slash'' kinda ends this as the 'may' would take scientific/mathematics of both their fiction worlds. Whats unbeatable? The move barrier usually appears as a sphere around M2, thats barrier though.(Eg; in this world some moves defend from physical and some defend from 'special' attacks. Inner would be the latter) Why do you insist of trying to show M2s weakness by stating what he did in his weakest form? At that time the blue burst was released energy, with later control it becomes important. One time he held/ used TK without any blue energy? Holding the Rhyhorn, no excess energy around him.
Hold up if M2 TKs Kain he could... TK on a whim? Even if he cant aim his hands towards M2? Pkmn are like sentient animals, all pkmn have better then normal awareness. Oh and the question i was proposing to you was that if M2 teleported instead of Kain. Not if they do it at the same time.
Mist is still a Tkable matter for a being able to make hurricanes. Why attack the mist (though very possible) why he can just continue Tking it, wouldnt even need to change his grip on Kain when he changes.
Scattering the mist, fire, changing temperature are examples of 'defeating' mist. Kains will just need a little more TK on it. Weak M2 disintegrates metal, strong M2...
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Not sure if that is true, but lets drop this and say he caused them be unable to control thier bodies by making them flail around randomly.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
CIS! Sephiroth is a cocky SoB! I think it would help.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Sephiroth is manifested in them, because they are alive which is proof of Sephiroths existance. That is what that means. I assume that was "not necessarily implied"? Clarify please.
I isolated the most important part which clearly states he used his own Will (And he also used his Negative Lifestream) to create them the only thing he got from the Lifestream were images to create them from.
It never stated she had the potential, she could try but that doesn't mean she would succeed.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Took me a while to build it, but it is freakin awesome!
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Technically, Kain is a living dead.
Even thats debatable, hes excisting and moving around by most standards but he is not "alive", his body should physicall be dead, as should the magic that originally animated him but despite all these factors he exists. Amy herrings (creator of LOk) excuse was that its just because its the nature of the Scion of balance.
Originally posted by BloodRain
You assume I assume too much, thats a bad assumption. First he knows them like a pkmn scientists knows them, as he made a clone machine 2.0 he knows of all of the pkmn. Last ones not really much of an assumption. So it does relate to M2. No pkmn needs a gesture to teleport, when Zam flinched its obvious anything he had in his arsenal was null to the effect of M2s TK.This ''may be slowed so Kain can slash'' kinda ends this as the 'may' would take scientific/mathematics of both their fiction worlds. Whats unbeatable? The move barrier usually appears as a sphere around M2, thats barrier though.(Eg; in this world some moves defend from physical and some defend from 'special' attacks. Inner would be the latter) Why do you insist of trying to show M2s weakness by stating what he did in his weakest form? At that time the blue burst was released energy, with later control it becomes important. One time he held/ used TK without any blue energy? Holding the Rhyhorn, no excess energy around him.
Hold up if M2 TKs Kain he could... TK on a whim? Even if he cant aim his hands towards M2? Pkmn are like sentient animals, all pkmn have better then normal awareness. Oh and the question i was proposing to you was that if M2 teleported instead of Kain. Not if they do it at the same time.
Mist is still a Tkable matter for a being able to make hurricanes. Why attack the mist (though very possible) why he can just continue Tking it, wouldnt even need to change his grip on Kain when he changes.
Scattering the mist, fire, changing temperature are examples of 'defeating' mist. Kains will just need a little more TK on it. Weak M2 disintegrates metal, strong M2...
TK held him steady, it TK does not unless you have evidence that M2s somehow does negate all the opponents powers or at least their psychic ones?
not really, its just based on chance. I cannot determine how quickly a teleport would happen under the effect of a time reduction, everything from phasing out to M2 thinking of activating it would be reduced in speed but it has to be considered. Ok so I need feats to see him without having any concentration/blue energy and lifting something, can you find this lifting of Ryhorn?
That depends if M2 has shown such control, has he actually held someone in Tk so they cannot move their body at all? Kain could technically teleport to escape Tk if someone Kain is captured, if they both used TK at the same time, M2 would die from blood manip and Kain would just be held for a second before M2 died. All pokemon have better than normal awareness but vampires enhanced in every way and evolved on top of that do not? not likely, I think its even stated in the early blood omens but I dont know if I could find the vid for it. Can you find evidence to suggest this improved sentience and prove it has helped him? If M2 teleported without Kain doing so then I am not sure, Kains main form of movement on a battlefield would be teleport, he has no other mode of transport apart from maybe mist that he would use. Running/walking would be too slow.
It is, but you would have to change tactics, so as soon as Kain mists, M2 would have to target mist particles, then ofc he would reform as kain an instant later. Once again, change of tactics. This could give Kain time to teleport, either way its an ability Kain could use to make sure M2 is vulernable for his other team mates OR just cant harm him. Because the mist becomes Kain, its no longer mist.
You cant defeat mist, scattering it= useless, it would just mean Kain could surprise M2 with even more ease since M2 would have no idea where all the mist is at the time. Fire? when has M2 made fire, and this would simply create more vapour as you woud make the particles heat up so Kain would have evn more mist/vapour to hide in.....you can only help Kain by doing this.
Also so far were debating Kain vs Team 2, this is fair enough but this is not the case.....Kain has Sephiroth on his team, thats two Tkers, you can go into depth about how M2 could perhaps fight off a few of Kains abilities by concentrating on him and attempting to defend himself but Sephiroth can also Tk, toss entities about etc if M2 is concentrating on kain, he is not on Sephiroth who could toss M2 about, in which case Kain can then attack.
Kratos is useless unfortunaltey.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Even thats debatable, hes excisting and moving around by most standards but he is not "alive", his body should physicall be dead, as should the magic that originally animated him but despite all these factors he exists. Amy herrings (creator of LOk) excuse was that its just because its the nature of the Scion of balance
He still fall into the living dead category
I guess that depends on what constitutes as living...is thinking and talking enough? I always call the "living dead" entities who walk the world of the living through sorcery or a higher power. or the typical vampire in Nosgoth like Raziel and his brothers....
Would you call a wraith in the underworld the living dead? technically theres nothing about it living....can you not be "dead" in a fiction yet simply have the gift of sentience?
Anything that has died at any point and is reanimated although not properly living but not still in death, is technically living dead.
If we move on to what I consider living dead, basically anything whose body is dead but still functioning. Ghosts are not living dead, since they have no body. Kain would be living dead, because he has a body and you said his body is dead. Because he is walking, I find him living dead because he should normally be dead.
Originally posted by Burning thought
As off now youtube took down the movie so I dont think I can get that clip. But that, Ash's punch, Charizards flames and Gyrados' beam, the TK used here showed no excess blue energy. Check vids if you want and you'll come across some.
First trainer held. Didnt flail, move or anything. ''and evolved on top of that do not?'' O.o thats a question? Him being the top pkmn, and pkmn in episodes have been helped by this.
Kain would turn into mist where he stands, which also happens to be the area that M2 is TKing. If this can even be called a change of tactic then its only -grab vamp, grab vampy mist, grab vamp.- the change is hardy even there. Has Kain shown the ability to control his mist if it gets separated? That would require him to split his concious in two (if in half) to move the separate parts. Two natural things that get rid of mist are; increase in heat and more moisture as it need a certain balance of heat and cool air to be sustained. (<- which he has the moves to do) Technically being on this ice planet with excess moisture in the air, mist would either be vaporise or perhaps for Kains sake just becomes heavy and thick (Way easier to TK) with the moisture. Buuut that's a whole different story ^^; And just so you know all psychic pkmn can easily TK anything that's in their power, no tactic change needed.
For the hell of it can you show proof of Kains blood manipulation and time feats?
xD Actually for the whole time we've been debating you brought up assistance from Seph and Kratos more then ive said Samus gets involved, technically making what you said Team 1 vs M2. And ive already been discussing Sephs TK feats which by them self are good against a normal person, but not compared to M2. Imo M2 doesnt really have much to worry about with Kain besides him trying to worm himself into M2 so taking 2 on 1 is feasible. Aww poor Kratos.
Mewtwo: Alot smarter, faster, stronger(especially in TK), better flight, way better range, several barriers etc. -Power, speed, defence, range.- 4 major things.
Which are several things Kain wont be able to get past. To take a page out of Kains book mixed with M2s first moves; A concentrated TK attack to Kains brain/heart. And before you say ''Hasn't done this, show proof'' i'll do it now; weak version of M2 makes the lab machines implode from the inside out. Add that move to what the more controlled/powerful M2 can do.
Still waiting for actual proof that the storm created by MewTwo was able to destroy the planet, and that Alakazams are as powerful as you guys are saying.
Because the only 'evidence' presented to me until now, is a statement from a Pokemon-Wikipedia. 🙄
Maybe I should go to the Final-Fantasy-Wikipedia now, edit it with a statement that Sephiroth is omnipotent and omniscient, and present the statement as 'evidence' of his power. 💃
MewTwo is an overrated joke.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Tons of pkmn TKd, none able to attack. If they could they would.As off now youtube took down the movie so I dont think I can get that clip. But that, Ash's punch, Charizards flames and Gyrados' beam, the TK used here showed no excess blue energy. Check vids if you want and you'll come across some.
First trainer held. Didnt flail, move or anything. ''and evolved on top of that do not?'' O.o thats a question? Him being the top pkmn, and pkmn in episodes have been helped by this.Kain would turn into mist where he stands, which also happens to be the area that M2 is TKing. If this can even be called a change of tactic then its only -grab vamp, grab vampy mist, grab vamp.- the change is hardy even there. Has Kain shown the ability to control his mist if it gets separated? That would require him to split his concious in two (if in half) to move the separate parts. Two natural things that get rid of mist are; increase in heat and more moisture as it need a certain balance of heat and cool air to be sustained. (<- which he has the moves to do) Technically being on this ice planet with excess moisture in the air, mist would either be vaporise or perhaps for Kains sake just becomes heavy and thick (Way easier to TK) with the moisture. Buuut that's a whole different story ^^; And just so you know all psychic pkmn can easily TK anything that's in their power, no tactic change needed.
For the hell of it can you show proof of Kains blood manipulation and time feats?xD Actually for the whole time we've been debating you brought up assistance from Seph and Kratos more then ive said Samus gets involved, technically making what you said Team 1 vs M2. And ive already been discussing Sephs TK feats which by them self are good against a normal person, but not compared to M2. Imo M2 doesnt really have much to worry about with Kain besides him trying to worm himself into M2 so taking 2 on 1 is feasible. Aww poor Kratos.
Mewtwo: Alot smarter, faster, stronger(especially in TK), better flight, way better range, several barriers etc. -Power, speed, defence, range.- 4 major things.
Which are several things Kain wont be able to get past. To take a page out of Kains book mixed with M2s first moves; A concentrated TK attack to Kains brain/heart. And before you say ''Hasn't done this, show proof'' i'll do it now; weak version of M2 makes the lab machines implode from the inside out. Add that move to what the more controlled/powerful M2 can do.
Or its PIS, and what attack exactly? as I have said, Tk as a move is telekinetic physical force, if a Pokemon has an ability they could use without moving their bodies around e.g. a fire breath from charizard then technically if their facing the right way they should have been able to. So either its PIS or theres something else stopping them attacking.
Ill have more of a look tomorrow, I am getting tired. Can you show me this first trainer who was held?
Not exactly, mist would float through a TK designed to hold kains phyiscal form, just like Kains physical form would not be held by a TK meant for molecules. The change is great as I said, M2 is Tking a large mass (kains body) which then becomes small piecies, in that moment M2 has to then use his TK again to grab the molecules, which apprently took gestures when concerning the huge hurricane and weather control.
Seperation of mist should not make any difference, as your trying to sort of claim Kains conciousness is at a certain point, this is not claimed. Kain transforms into this mist form, if its seperated then all of these particles of mist are still Kain even if they are not together, the only disavantage this could have is that it would take longer for Kain to get all the particles together to reform himself but considerin this form is extremely quick to get into and out of, as well as move then its not likely to be a problem. What moves, ive not seen m2 use such forces? and he would have to keep this up for a duration on the mist, mist does not suddenly disapear, it slowly evapourates and expands before this, Kain wold reform to escape such a fate. Taking M2 by surprise and killing him.
blood manip:
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Time manip at 6:32-6:48:
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He also has a spell that freezes opponents fully in time so they cannot move, but i cannot show a vid of this as I dont think one exists, I can only show you proof of its excistence nad what it actually does from the games text.
Thats prob because Samus is fairly useless, Kain and M2 would be teleporting all over the place, Samus could be nullfied through Tk by Sephiroth or Kain anyway. Fact is, Kain does not need his other team mates, they have weaknesses that make them not required but they also have powers that can help Kain out to nullfiy M2 who is easiest the main theat on his team.
m2 smarter? how so? higher IQ makes it more likely he can learn faster, Kains had actual experiance, thousands of years of experiance nad has changed his fate and those of others across a game of time, any poorly "timed" action during the time stream could have ruined everything or destroyed him. faster? ill give him that but its irrelvent, he will be slowed by time powers and teleportation negates speed. As for stronger in Tk sure when it comes to physical power and big feats but for the more useful control that can kill m2 such as Kains Tk, Kain is the victor here. Range is irrelvent what with teleportation. M2 lacks greatly in the special power range, Kain cna elimiante M2 easily with blood powers, soul disruption and mind control, M2 has nothing to completly destroy Kain tbh, he would have to work his ass off just to contain Kains mist forms and transformations but he cannot actually stop Kain completly.
Kain can get past anything M2 can throw at him through mist form or teleportation. Theoretically even the repel shield could help somewhat in protecting Kain. Combine that with time powers and cheap tricks such as blood manip and mind control and Kain will be unstoppable....also Kains physical form is irrelvent in this fight. For M2 to get rid of Kain compeltly he has to atomize him, this is impossible for M2 by the way of feats as well as if we think outside the box based on logical information that we know about him.
Originally posted by SHM
Still waiting for actual proof that the storm created by MewTwo was able to destroy the planet
Overrated or not, he can do it if he wanted.
Originally posted by SHM
and that Alakazams are as powerful as you guys are saying.