Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not sure Tidus is Shuyin's dream. I mean, what about Yuna and... uh... that other girl.... what's her face. Yuna isn't a dream.I still say Tidus would win, though. Vaan fighting off rats shows very little. If I recall, they were the weakest enemy in the game. They were just big rats. Those sin needle insects that Tidus fought off in the beginning of the game where more threatening than big rats. And again, we don't know what Vaan can do, because he can't really do anything. The fact that he starts with a sword means nothing. In the end, his true skills are completely left up to the player. He's pretty much a blank slate.
The rats are weak yes. But as Vaan again states himself its just practice for whats in the desert. Now lets deduce this logically. For Vaan to claim its good practice for the desert implies that he knows/seen whats in the desert personally. For Vaan to be training long enough to gain a nickname(ratsbane) for practising in the sewer implies that he's fought for some time and he's been out in the desert a lot since the rat practice is for the desert. So Vaan had experience with the monsters in the desert(wolves, cactoids, Those weird giant bird people thingy I mentioned before) before the game starts. That already puts him at a higher level than Tidus imo.
And even without him kinda confirming he's practiced a bit, he owns a weapon and he and Penelo know there way around the desert, so a few fiends is probably nothing new to them
But enough with that, we're comparing how strong they are in the beginning where they are at thier weakest. We should be comparing the things they take out through there whole adventure, not just how experienced they were in the beginning
Sorry for a double post but about Yuna and Lenne, they just look alike. there is nothing to that. My take on this is, Tidus is most likely based off of Shuyin. Tidus' dream Zanarkand is a peaceful version of what Zanarkand used to be. its basically a rewritten version of something the same or very similar. Shuyin lived a life as a blitzball star and was in love with Lenne. The war happened, and Lenne was lost to him.
The war and all the sad things that came along with it were things that were not carried over to the faith's dream obviously. So Tidus lived his life similar to Shuyin, but was not in love with anyone. Probably because Lenne involvement with the war made the faith not dream up a version of her. So Tidus was a single version of what Shuyin was. So I guess they could be called basically the same
Though that's my perspective, none of this is confirmed.
That's a good explanation to Shuyin's relation to Tidus. However the only thing that Shuyin did better than him was suck and die; I don't know how that would help against Vaan(wouldn't hurt him though)
Its hard to take into account anything that Vaan's taken in through his adventure. He(she) is generally ignored whenever he tries to do something even the slight bit useful like stopping the Sun Cryst from going nuclear or defending Ashe from Gabranth. Tidus had Auron to hold his and for the most part and he turned out to be a decent swordsman according to the game.
Lol that's why I never liked Vaan(in FFXII at least). The game never let him do ANYTHING. Anyway I'd bet by the end they are both skilled with their swords. No doubt about that. Lets list what we know about the two by the end
Vaan: officially fights with swords. That's what he starts off with, swords are his main weapons in RW and TA2(both canon)and I believe that's also his weapon in the international version of FFXII. Vaan is kinda strong. He (with help) can take on seeqs unarmed and can knock Vayne over a railing and clean over a flight of stairs after Gabranth failed to do so even when he charged his blade with mist. Story wise Vaan CAN use magic and quickening. Fran explains how magic and mist work in the story early on. Though the only people who actually show this in the story is basch, Fran and Gabranth, it is still at least known that he could. Whether his magic/quickenings are strong outside of gameplay is unknown
Also his hunts are canon. His encounter with that bounty hunter in revenant wings confirms it. And bansat in TA2 helpped confirm this more. He can also hang off the back of a speeding off airship with one hand while holding Penelo in the other *note that last part was from RW beginning and i only counted it cause its was within hours/minutes after FFXII's ending*
Tidus: Is naturally gifted and is a quick learner. Is physically strong as he can send an opponent blitzer flying with a speedy tackle. Extremely athletic. Able to flip over railings while hundreds of feet in the air and while smiling (i think). He can basically fly out of water, swim as fast as fish and can jump pretty damn high. Is a blitzball player so naturally he can endure a lot of pain. He could learn/use magic I believe. In FFX world it seems like any one can learn magic, or at least that's what I gathered from dialog from Lulu. We don't know how powerful his spells are or could be
also for added measure, details on their enemies. Can't really judge these guys strength if we don't know what their strongest foes can do
*spoilers*
Vayne Solidor. absorbs manufacted nethicite increasing his phyiscal powers and magical abilities. manufacted nethicite has the ability to absorb magical energy and disrupt others magical attacks directed at you. He later merges with an occuria(a god of Ivalice) and parts of Bahamut which has absorbed mist from the sun cryst (basically deifacted nethicite). one shard of deifacted nethicite can destroy a whole kingdom(nabudis) so the Bahamut is really something as its mist comes directly from the cryst. Venat is one of the gods. We don't know much about the power he gives Vayne except that Occurian can make people even more stronger, Occurians are known to be far greater than the espers they made, and they are capable to seal off an entire race and thier god(happens before FFXII but is discovered in the sequel). Is destroyed by Vaan and 5 others
Sin/braska final aeon: Sin a giant killing machine. Destroys anything in its way or big settlements. Sin can easily stop some of the strongest machina with an energy wave and completely destroy people with it as well. And well, that cutscene where it pretty much just blast through like the ocean and the mountains. Very powerful. Braska final aeon can apparently beat Sin. Cause in order to become the next sin you must beat sin with the final summon right(correct if wrong.) so he is super strong. is beat by Tidus and 6 others
Now with all that and coupled in with my last post I still think Vaan can win barely. While obvious Tidus is far more agile, I think Vaan is just stronger and better with and without a blade.
Sorry for another big post lolz
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Gameplay doesn't matter, story-line wise does.
Indeed, and look at the two enemies. Over sized rats, or little sin spawn insects that shoot needles or whatever. I'd take the sin spawn. Rats just aren't menacing at all.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Edit: Oh, and these monsters:Aren't nothing, less if you are fighting along with Auron. Vaan taking monsters bigger than these by himself shows more feats.
What did Vaan take by himself? Rats? Those things are far more dangerous than rats.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Indeed, and look at the two enemies. Over sized rats, or little sin spawn insects that shoot needles or whatever. I'd take the sin spawn. Rats just aren't menacing at all.What did Vaan take by himself? Rats? Those things are far more dangerous than rats.
Sinscales you mean. Those are just some insects that can be annihilated by a single slash, hell, I could take them down. Tidus didn't take them by himself either, he was with Auron. Vaan not only can take giant rats by himself without breaking a sweat, he can wander in the desert no problem and kills Wolves, Cactoids (who also uses needles attacks), etc. Just check the whole argument supporting Vaan instead of replying to my post if you still 'think' Tidus would win based in that he killed bugs with Auron.
Vaan wins.
Why do people keep mentioning rats when its already been proven that story wise those are not the first things he fights and its been proven its things in the desert as well? Seriously stop with the rats. The sinspawn were Tidus' first battle ever, the rats in the beginning of the game is what Vaan used to practice against cause he already knew/been through what was in the desert
Sinspawn>rats obviously. But Vaan BEFORE the game even starts already has experience with the desert monsters which are far worst than the sinspawn. STOP WITH THE RATS ALREADY. It is already known that Vaan had some kind of experience with the desert before the game.
That's like saying Squall's first fight ever was against Ifrit since its the first fight in the game even though its known he fights against Seifer a lot
Yeah I know. Though at the same time it should be known that even with Auron's help, it should be known that Tidus still can contribute to a fight. He was a new fighter, but a quick learner. And I doubt Auron would just take care of everything for him
Also here is a monster near the giza plains.
Tell me those sin things are worst. Granted though this time around he has Penelo's help. The two are no strangers to this area though obviously(especially Penelo apparently) as Vaan himself knows all about the place without being told
At the beginning of the game Vaan is obviously far better than Tidus. I should remind people though this is a debate on the whole game though and not just the beginning
Originally posted by heartlesshero17
Yeah I know. Though at the same time it should be known that even with Auron's help, it should be known that Tidus still can contribute to a fight. He was a new fighter, but a quick learner. And I doubt Auron would just take care of everything for him
I suppose Auron won't let Tidus die knowing very well he never carried a sword before in his life. That's all.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
So you know of people in real life that jump as high as Tidus, send people flying from a stadium to the bleachers with an elbow, and breathe underwater for long periods of time?
Again with the same...
Tidus is super-human compared to us, under Final Fantasy standards he's just a normal human. Just as normal humans capable of using Magic, normal people can do that in the Final Fantasy Universe.