Now, here is where the switch is ABOUT to take place.
It hasn't happened yet; it's ABOUT to.
"Bad" Kara is taking her "twin" into this construction site to stun her opponent long enough to make the switch and raise enough dust to hide the switch from Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman.
Note again: "Bad" Kara has LONG hair while "Good" Kara has SHORT hair, which you can easily see in this image and all the previous ones.
Scan 11 of 14.
Note now "good" SHORT-HAIRED Kara's response.
She was surprised in the previous scan at being struck.
Now she realizes what happened.
And, indeed, we see "bad" LONG-haired Kara in the regular Supergirl outfit. With a mischievous smirk on her face.
Which should have been a hint she's lying, and a tip-off to re-examine for evidence of that.
It was for me.
It obviously wasn't for you.
Scan 13 of 14.
It's worth pointing out on this one too, that, Superman's statement, taken as it is, is wrong.
There IS a way to tell the two half-Karas apart.
IF you've actually been observent.
Hah, but, in-story, you would have to be somebody observant like a, a DETECTIVE hero or something to have noticed that.
Too bad that, with Wonder Woman, Superman, and BATMAN present, there's no one in this story that fits the bill, right?
"Bad" girl, whom Superman punched, STILL mouthing off after the speech of ...
Hmm. Kara's cousin.
Superman drew blood from the girl's mouth, same as just about every other opponent she encountered, and she STILL doesn't believe him?
What's wrong with that girl?
Daddy issues?
Teenage rebellion.
Maybe just a stage.
Probably needs a haircut ...
Scan 14 of 14.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
To follow the kind of logic put forth by Delta about the Supergirl #5 artwork, which Delta has actually NOT examined with any true thorough-ness ...No, on this score, Delta, the BS is definitely yours.
You haven't actually looked at Supergirl 5 with any thoroughness.I can PROVE you haven't, by the statements you made several posts ago.
From page 38:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Delta1938[B]
I should also note that the very first punch Superman hits regular suit Kara (I don't think they actually swapped costumes, but it's not 100% clear) after the heat vision attack drew blood.
[QUOTE]In actuality, there is almost nothing so clear as the costume switching.
Rarely have I EVER seen a case where artwork was so consistent on one point. But ... only clear when you actually give the artwork a thorough examination.You've got to be observant about what you read and look at.
Which you are not.Delta, "Good" Kara is depicted with short hair.
"Bad" Kara is depicted with long hair.
This'll probably be about the easiest thing in the world to show you.
In fact, after I'm done, I don't think you or anyone else will be able to UNsee it.
In fact, it's even consistent across the Supergirl 3 to 5 ARC, not just SG5.
Let's begin with SG3, in fact: [/B]
Nope, I stand by it's still unclear. Of course, this is a strawman you're using, especially trying to draw attention from my posts tearing-apart your reasoning for why you claim Wonder Woman from 2003-2011 is stronger than Superman from the same period. First-off, I should mention, you don't really have any place calling me unobservant. When Salsa brought-up the comparison earlier, you had tried to discredit it as Superman had attacked her a total of 4 times before his Kara was knocked down, and Wonder Woman only did one attack to knock her's down. First-off, Superman only attacked 2 times prior to the first. What you think was the third strike, had no sound effect indicating connection. Secondly, the Heat Vision attack was on the chest, not the face/head. So not an accurate argument there. But most importantly, you try to argue that Wonder Woman only needed one punch to knock her Kara down and Superman required 4 attacks. Well, you left-out the "minor"(MAJOR sarcasm here) detail that Superman attacked Diana's Kara before her final blow just as much as he did his before his final blow.
And, looking at those scans, it sure seems like his Kara had a lot more time to recover from his attacks than Diana's Kara did. And these factors are far, far more noticeable than hair length. So, either you're much more unobservant than me and only noticed it due to desperately combing through to make a strawman, or you're simply misleading and dishonest so you left that part out. Which is it, Blue?
As for the hair length thing it's self, if the writer intended to use that to differentiate or clarify which Kara was which, why would Superman say this when Diana asked if he had anything to figure-out who's who?
"No.....they're virtually identical." If it was really that easy to tell who's who, don't you think a very intelligent reporter with super senses could've figured it out?
A guy who can use his senses to view body language and the equivalent of a polygraph?
Someone who looks through everything to make sure he's not seeing an illusion, checks to see that it really is who she claims to be, and can tell she's being honest by smelling her tears?
Someone who noticed all this?
Yeah, I think if it were that easy to tell, and the writer intended it, Superman would've noticed.
Also, I should note that you've painted yourself in a corner. If you're going to try and argue I'm unobservant(while proving you're either worse than you're accusing me of, or intentionally misrepresenting what happened) and the consistency proves you right and me wrong, then you must concede that this is a legitimate example of Superman being stronger than Wonder Woman, in the 2003-2011 time period you claim he isn't. Both Karas were consistently bleeding when struck by everybody BUT Wonder Woman. And Superman caused both Kara's to bleed from his first strike to each. So there's no inconsistency, it's just everybody but Wonder Woman who fought a Kara was able to hit hard enough to draw blood.
But again, this is a strawman because you tried to discredit this example by using a strawman of Hercules causing Superman to bleed. An elbow strike, something that forces all the momentum into a harder, smaller surface than the momentum from a punch with the fist hitting, on a very vulnerable area(the nose) is not an equivalent example to Superman drawing blood. But if you knew anything about fighting aside from boxing, you'd know this(I mean twice you've appeared to think kickboxing matches were MMA fights, and thought a kneebar meant Frank Mir was stronger than Brock Lesnar). Which was also a strawman from the numerous examples I presented tearing-apart your "reasoning" for why you say Wonder Woman is stronger.
Also, another strawman was bringing-up Diana's characterization of why she merely attempted to restrain Titus instead of attacking. Even though it failed more than once, and she fairly quickly learned that Titus was a really really dangerous threat(the fact he took-out Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and Flash single-handedly should've tipped her off to that), because it doesn't change the fact that the one time she struck him by herself(well was the only one using PHYSICAL FORCE instead of energy attacks, which actually reinforces it as Superman looking stronger than Wonder Woman against an opponent) she had no effect, and pretty much every time Superman struck Titus it had an effect.
In otherwords, you've been giving unsubstantiated reasons why you think she's stronger, never once gave any evidence, have had your reasons proven wrong, and now you're strawmanning 'cuz you've been caught with your pants down.
I suppose I should clarify my last example of Superman's senses and powers of observation. The JLA were separated and were encountering different stuff, normally their "worst nightmares." Things weren't what they seemed though. The JLA WERE fighting opponents, but what they were SEEING were all hand-picked illusions(apparently created through technology?) to hide the fact that they were actually facing robots. Superman noticed the flickering, what was causing them to see what it wanted them to. Here's after that last scan.
Originally posted by Delta1938you don't really have any place calling me unobservant.
Except where you're unobservant.
Which is pretty often.
And significant because you often happen to be unobservant where an event would favor Superman at the expense of another character.
Supergirl 5 is just one such instance.
Earlier in this thread, on page 28, for instance, you posted the following concerning Aquaman in the grip of an Imperiex Probe:
[i]Originally posted by Delta1938]
😕 ... what are you talking about? Where did Aquaman break the hand? Are you talking about getting out of it's grip? I don't see anything indicating he actually broke the hand to get out. Nor do I see how he got out ...
Maybe you said something you did not mean above, but I sure would like you to explain the following. Here's the relevant "big picture" scan:
So, I'M the unobservant one, yet you think Aquaman actually shattered the hand? Looks like Superman's the one who broke Aquaman free.
And if you're trying to say Aquaman had the strength to shatter the hand itself, either you're wrong, or the hand was nowhere near as durable when cut-off from it's energy source. If you're talking about Aquaman simply broke the grip off him, what is that supposed to prove? It was cut-off from the Probe, thus it lost it's power source, it was no longer producing grip.
The following proves either you're wrong, or the Imperiex Probe's hand was merely much less durable when cut-off from it's power source.
Both Wonder Woman(using a most likely enchanted ax; otherwise it likely would've shattered on the Probe) AND Aquaman simultaneously strike it and don't cause any real damage. If they had even literally cracked it, it would've exploded it's energy source. But it doesn't, it fights back.
And that's nowhere near the lack of observation of missing that Superman attacked Diana's Kara before her final blow just as much as his before his final blow. You never answered that question. Did you miss that, or were you merely leaving it out to make your argument seem far far better than it actually was?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Arguments are based on facts.
Facts necessarily involve stable history.If you change the history, you change the facts, and scarcely any argument can be sustained after that point.
However, changing history is what a retcon IS.
You can't treat it as something minor.I'd be interested in your take on the following, for instance.
Hercules versus Superman versus Kingdom Come Superman.
Scan 1 of 3.
DC says that the Superman from 1986 - 2011 is essentially the same person. We know this because he references past events in his life. While some aspects were retconned, it was in essence still the same person.
it's why we have pre crisis, post crisis, and post flashpoint classifications.
what about hercules and superman?