Superman Vs Wonderwoman

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
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Source: Justice Society of America. Kingdom Come Special #1, Volume 1
Writer: Alex Ross
Penciller: Alex Ross
Date: January 2009
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Justice_Society_of_America_Kingdom_Come_Special_Superman_Vol_1_1

So, what is that supposed to prove? That Kryptonite gas can burn KC Superman's eyes?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Durability/Against%20Weaknesses/IC%207/

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Justice Society of America. Kingdom Come Special #1, Volume 1
Writer: Alex Ross
Penciller: Alex Ross
Date: January 2009
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Justice_Society_of_America_Kingdom_Come_Special_Superman_Vol_1_1

Wow Blue, really?

Pardon me if I say this bluntly, but this is an argument of ignorance.

Are you trying to show that KC Superman is stronger because he did not got affected with new earth kryptonite?

Or are You trying to say new earth Superman is weaker because he gets affected by the cloud of kryptonite that should affect new earth Superman but not KC Superman?

Actually kryptonite shouldn't even work on alternate reality kryptonian. Now my initial question remains unanswered, why is this thread still open? Its clear that bluewaterrider is just a troll who isn't even funny.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually kryptonite shouldn't even work on alternate reality kryptonian. Now my initial question remains unanswered, why is this thread still open? Its clear that bluewaterrider is just a troll who isn't even funny.

Don't ask silly questions, maybe.

And calling people trolls is actually something that's frowned upon, just so you know.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Wow Blue, really?

Pardon me if I say this bluntly, but this is an argument of ignorance.

Are you trying to show that KC Superman is stronger because he did not got affected with new earth kryptonite?

Or are You trying to say new earth Superman is weaker because he gets affected by the cloud of kryptonite that should affect new earth Superman but not KC Superman?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually kryptonite shouldn't even work on alternate reality kryptonian. Now my initial question remains unanswered, why is this thread still open? Its clear that bluewaterrider is just a troll who isn't even funny.

Yeah guys, the Kryptonite not effecting other dimensional Kryptonians part slipped my mind. Which makes his argument even WORSE because KC Superman's eyes still burned despite he shouldn't have been effected by it.

So, Blue first shows he knows little about Superman by saying, "The fact that the Kryptonite didn't stop him dead in his tracks proves he was Sun-Amped" not knowing that Superman's survived far, far worse Kryptonite exposure than that little piece Diana had during SACRIFICE, then he shows he doesn't know it doesn't effect Kryptonians from other universes. 🙁 😮 But I can't believe I didn't catch that one. Maybe it's 'cuz I'm wondering what the Hell Blue's scans were supposed to prove when he's arguing KC Superman is more powerful than New Earth Superman, 'cuz his scans showed nothing New Earth hasn't been exposed to just as badly, or worse.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Now my initial question remains unanswered, why is this thread still open?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't ask silly questions, maybe.

I think the better question is, why is Blue still arguing despite bringing nothing to the table but strawmen and theories and reasoning based entirely on wishful thinking, despite his only half-way legitimate argument was proven to be based on leaving-out extenuating circumstances, and evidence has been presented proving him wrong? Maybe he's hoping he can keep delaying this and distract us from all the examples that disprove his claim and he can find ONE example that might actually be evidence to his case and go, "Case closed, I'm right."

Or, he's just a masochist of a debater?

More likely, Delta, I'm doing exactly what I SAID I would be doing, not only here on page 29, relevant section quoted for all to see, but also what I outlined I would be doing much earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

You seem to think it invalid to prove a point by pointing out that all the arguments against said point are crap. That's not so. In fact, it's one of the standards used in schools and colleges and universities.

Even has formal names:

1. Proof by contradiction.
2. Proof by contrapositive.
3. Reductio ad absurdum.

No dancing here. No dodging. That's the reality.
I've said EXACTLY what I intended to cover in this thread, and said so repeatedly, and gone about doing precisely that.

Show me where I've violated anything I've said in this thread.
I'd be interested to see if anyone could justly make that claim, for I think I've been fairly consistent; nearly everything you've seen in this thread is something I expressly stated I would do.
I'm genuinely interested to see if there's any sort of contradiction on my part of the type already seen in others on here, including yourself.

I think part of the problem is that people are not used to having real discussion here. If you want to see if your ideas are sound, do you take them to other people who think exactly like YOU do?
I'm thinking, if you want to give honest examination to a thing, you take it to an audience who is AGAINST your position and see what they have to offer. That, too, by the way, is consistent with the way schools, colleges, and universities conduct business. Might be a whole lot different here. I don't know. If so, however, I would point out that this is NOT a typical versus thread on a KMC versus board. It is a discussion thread on a discussion forum. Different rules here and I don't think I'm violating any of them from what I've read, nor do I get the sense of urgency you seem to have over a thread that is now in ... what? Its 25th month? I've only been here for about 2. Less than 1/10th of its time. And I daresay I've brought more accurate information relevant to this thread and what the original poster actually ASKED people in his opening posts that any other person participating, including Salsa and P.R.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
More likely, Delta, I'm doing exactly what I SAID I would be doing, not only here on page 29, relevant section quoted for all to see, but also what I outlined I would be doing much earlier in this thread.

In other words, you'll keep saying it's a fact that Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman from the 2003-2011 time period, despite you have no REAL evidence.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Wow Blue, really?

Pardon me if I say this bluntly, but this is an argument of ignorance.

Are you trying to show that KC Superman is stronger because he did not got affected with new earth kryptonite?

Or are You trying to say new earth Superman is weaker because he gets affected by the cloud of kryptonite that should affect new earth Superman but not KC Superman?

Salsa,

I don't mind your post here in the least. You are attacking my argument WITHOUT directly attacking me, the way it should be.

I find nothing wrong with that whatsoever, and thank you for showing me that respect.

Originally posted by biensalsa

Are you trying to show that KC Superman is stronger because he did not got affected with new earth kryptonite?

Or are You trying to say new earth Superman is weaker because he gets affected by the cloud of kryptonite that should affect new earth Superman but not KC Superman?

With the premise you're specifically alluding to, here, please answer now:

1) Does Alex Ross writer of this story agree with your conclusion?
2) If you still think your premise is right, and what Alex Ross himself is following, then why is Kingdom Come Superman affected by "New Earth" kryptonite gas at all, as Delta himself points out?

Also, Delta, in your very scan itself, Superman TELLS us that Eradicator CHANGED the Kryptonite gas from Kryptonite to something ELSE.

Notice now, in this isolate, what you missed reading in your own posting.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
With the premise you're specifically alluding to, here, please answer now:

1) Does [B]Alex Ross writer of this story agree with your conclusion?
2) If you still think your premise is right, and what Alex Ross himself is following, then why is Kingdom Come Superman affected by "New Earth" kryptonite gas at all, as Delta himself points out? [/B]

Know it's not to me, but this would be a mistake or sheer ignorance on Ross' part. Kryptonite only effecting Kryptonians native to it's universe was established by Byrne.

PA: "...you...it...they...don't EFFECT you...??" SUPERMAN: "Apparently not, sir. And my MICROSCOPIC VISION reveals WHY! Although these rocks contain all the same ELEMENTS as Kryptonite...the RADIATION they produce is completely DIFFERENT from the stuff I know."

SUPERBOY PRIME: "Oh. I see where you've brought me now. To the place this KRYPTON exploded. But this Kryptonite isn't FROM my universe. It won't hurt ME. All you're going to do is kill THIS Superman. I mean, did you THINK these ROCKS would STOP me? HAHAHAHAHA Did you REALLY?"

Note that there's both Kal-El AND Kal-L there, but he only said, "--kill THIS Superman" not "kill yourselves."

Also, during INFINITE CRISIS, Kal-L had been exposed to Batman's Kryptonite ring, and he said it only hurt because the ring represented the mistrust of that world, or something along those lines. In other words, it had no physical effect on him.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Also, Delta, in your very scan itself, Superman TELLS us that Eradicator CHANGED the Kryptonite gas from Kryptonite to something ELSE.

Notice now, in this isolate, what you missed reading in your own posting.

No, he didn't say that. He said when the Kryptonite passed-through HIM, meaning the Eradicator.

See here?

That beam is different from all the dust they're surrounded with.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
With the premise you're specifically alluding to, here, please answer now:

1) Does [B]Alex Ross writer of this story agree with your conclusion?
2) If you still think your premise is right, and what Alex Ross himself is following, then why is Kingdom Come Superman affected by "New Earth" kryptonite gas at all, as Delta himself points out? [/B]

Alex Ross is a huge Superman fan, to the point that his own son's name is Kal-El.

I would not be surprised if He is aware of how Kryptonite from another vibrational plane will not affect a Superman. and my best guess it will be just to point that this kryptonite is nothing but a small annoyance on his eyes

This is why I said it was an argument of ignorance, it would not be the first time, I have seen this argument.

This fact with the Kryptonites from another universes is not common knowledge to casual readers or non readers of Superman comics

Originally posted by biensalsa
Alex Ross is a huge Superman fan, to the point that his own son's name is Kal-El.

I would not be surprised if He is aware of how Kryptonite from another vibrational plane will not affect a Superman. and my best guess it will be just to point that this kryptonite is nothing but a small annoyance on his eyes

This is why I said it was an argument of ignorance, it would not be the first time, I have seen this argument.

This fact with the Kryptonites from another universes is not common knowledge to casual readers or non readers of Superman comics

Again, I have no problem with you saying any of that, Salsa.

And you're telling me of your own reading background and experience.

I'm doing the same thing.

I've read that special, for instance, which Delta apparently had not.

But Kingdom Come Superman is a very special case (no pun intended) even compared to many of the other alternates readers will encounter.

If I'm trusting Delta to be accurate, he is even more problematic for your argument here.

Let me illustrate. Delta says on the previous page, page 43 of this thread, that he knows of only one time "our" Superman and KC Superman had a significant fight.

And Delta kindly provided a link to the album in his Photobucket account that has this fight. I went there. Page looks like this ...

... and the URL for Delta's link is as follows:

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Miscellaneous/KC%20Superman/

I'll re-enable "automatically parse URLs" so that will work as a link again:

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Miscellaneous/KC%20Superman/

Notice now, though, the 4th scan, which looks like so ...

... and notice now more fully the explanation given by Senior Blue.

If Delta's wrong about this being KC Superman, his information is inaccurate -- as shown here and elsewhere in the thread.

That's not a slam, just a fact, and it's precisely BECAUSE people make mistakes and misinterpret things that it's worthwhile to discuss things and sort them out.

On the other hand, if Delta IS accurate, if this really IS KC Superman,

then either KC Superman himself is wrong in what he is saying
(in which case it is proof that characters in a comicbook can be mistaken in their assertion, even SUPERMAN characters)

or KC Superman is RIGHT in what he is saying, which is that he is really "our" Superman, just older, and transplanted back in time from the future.

Note the dialogue. I put yellow rounded rectangles around it to show, but, to be sure:

"You're wondering about the Boom Tube. You'll be AMAZED by the alliances you have yet to make.

The TIME TRAVEL part was trickier. THAT you'll have [to] find out on your own.

The BIG question, I'll make easy.

I'm you.

Years from now."

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Notice now, though, the 4th scan, which looks like so ...

For what I read, I got the idea this is not the same Superman as Kingdom come Superman.

This Superman is actually "For the man who has everything" Superman. That is supposed to be "Our" Superman.

This Superman is not married to Wonder Woman, he might seem similar, because of the uniform, but this is not Kingdom come Superman.

This is actually "our superman's future version of himself" not an earth 22 Superman