Superman Vs Wonderwoman

from page 38.

Originally posted by biensalsa

... Based on the fact that Superman's strength is breaking Kara's invulnerability, and Wonder Woman isn't ...

Probably Wonder Woman is even using a better technique.

Based on this particular showing (Supergirl v5 #5) it seems Superman is stronger than Wonder Woman, Do you agree?

Overlooked last week:

2) You're ignoring the fact that most knockout punches, whether in comics, real-life, the boxing ring, or pretty much anyplace any average person has experience with, are not lip-splitting ones.

Besides that particular point, I'd also like the explanation as to why Wonder Woman's was supposedly a "better technique".

What, did she "curtsy" before punching Kara?

Diana's certainly proven herself capable of breaking Supergirl's invulnerability elsewhere, and rather casually, and that when Supergirl had NOT been split up into 2 schizophrenic halves and treated to liberal portions of kryptonite and others' fists ...

Image 1 of 4.

Kara. Durabreak

Image 2 of 4.

Kara. Durabreak.

Image 3 of 4.

Image 4 of 4.

Wonderdickery.

Wonder Woman gives Kara a bloody nose, then heals her with the purple ray to make a point.

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Source: Supergirl #28, Volume 5
Writer: Kelley Puckett
Penciller: Drew Johnson & Ron Randall
Date: June 2008
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_28

Originally posted by Delta1938
It's referencing a definitely Pre-CRISIS story. Yet, he was dressed as KC Superman. So, this saying KC Superman is Pre-CRISIS Superman in the future?

Kingdom come Superman earth 22 has nothing to do with the Superman in that series, they are not the same character.

Earth 22 Superman is married to Wonder Woman

What ever happened to the man of tomorrow "earth 1" Superman is married to Lois Lane

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
While you guys are figuring that out, I've got some more stuff that needs posting for later discussion, so don't mind me ...

Kara versus Blackrock. Note that the events in this story take place after Supergirl #5. Lucia Blackrock's statement of Kara's superiority.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Kara versus Lucia Blackrock. Image 2.

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Source: Superman #223, Volume 2
Writer: Mark Verheiden
Pencillers: Ed Benes & Ivan Reis
Date: January 2006
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_2_223

Actually Supergirl 5 is from March 2006
Superman 223 is from Jan 2006

And this is from a different writer.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
While you guys are figuring that out, I've got some more stuff that needs posting for later discussion, so don't mind me ...

Kara versus Blackrock. Note that the events in this story take place after Supergirl #5. Lucia Blackrock's statement of Kara's superiority.

third party statements are rarely definitive proof, unless you want to use statements such as Wonder Woman stating Superman is the most powerful member of the Justice League, and she would know his power level better than the Blackrock, wouldn't she?

Originally posted by biensalsa
Actually Supergirl 5 is from March 2006
Superman 223 is from Jan 2006

And this is from a different writer.

The Supergirl title in 2005 through 2006 was plagued with serious delays in release schedule, Salsa.

You can still see some evidence of that here using Google's "Wayback" Machine. Unfortunately, all these years later the thread is no longer "open-able", but the mere fact that a fan would CREATE a thread like that should give you some idea of how bad it was.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060206050227/http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/forum.jspa?forumID=29209082

And rightly so.

2005 was the year Jeph Loeb's son, Sam, succumbed to a battle with cancer. You can read that much in any bio.

Regardless of the real-world reasons, though, the events in Supergirl #5 follow those in Superman v2 #223. In fact, as I pointed out earlier, Superman makes specific reference to Kara's Supergirl v2 #4 attack on the Justice League:

Here's the Wayback link again, this time as a plain URL
(I unchecked "Automatically parse URLs" to allow this.)

When the page loads up, note the 8th thread down.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060206050227/http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/forum.jspa?forumID=29209082

And here again is the scene where Superman specifically references Dark Kara's attack, this time with highlighting of his statement:

Originally posted by -Pr-
third party statements are rarely definitive proof, unless you want to use statements such as Wonder Woman stating Superman is the most powerful member of the Justice League, and she would know his power level better than the Blackrock, wouldn't she?

Three parts to your question, P.R.,
I'll give at least 3 answers.

Answer One.

"Superman is the most powerful member of the Justice League"?

I don't know when this was said, but, I do recall the Martian Manhunter, J'onn J'onnz, dying around this time. If he was, being the one other character writers gave most claim to that title, I have no significant problem with the statement. After him, Superman probably IS the most powerful single Justice League member.

If you want to amend that to "Superman is more powerful than Wonder Woman", still I have no significant problem with that statement, and, in fact, covered reasons why I thought that true at the beginning of my discussion with Salsa.

But power and pure physical strength are 2 different things.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Three parts to your question, P.R.,
I'll give at least 3 answers.

Answer One.

"Superman is the most powerful member of the Justice League"?

I don't know when this was said, but, I do recall the Martian Manhunter, J'onn J'onnz, dying around this time. If he was, being the one other character writers gave most claim to that title, I have no significant problem with the statement. After him, Superman probably IS the most powerful single Justice League member.

If you want to amend that to "Superman is more powerful than Wonder Woman", still I have no significant problem with that statement, and, in fact, covered reasons why I thought that true at the beginning of my discussion with Salsa.

But power and pure physical strength are 2 different things.

It was said by Wonder Woman after Superman had attacked Batman during Sacrifice.

J'onn was fine at the time.

And, not to be cheeky, but I'm still waiting on the proof that Diana is stronger, when even in a Rucka written issue (who is a massive Diana fanboy at the best of times), Superman was shown to have a strength advantage over her.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Wonder Woman ... would know his power level better than the Blackrock, wouldn't she?

I don't think that's so.

Certainly, were Lucia Blackrock just an average person making that statement, I would agree with you absolutely.

Diana has YEARS of personal experience with Clark, and has fought for, with, and against him. How then could she NOT know his power levels better than some stranger from Peru? (or whatever country Lucia's from)

The problem is that the Blackrock specifically gives Lucia the power to DRAW AND CONTROL ENERGY. Superman's power, in other words.

She tells us so.

And she demonstrates it.

Right here:

Originally posted by -Pr-

Wonder Woman ... would know his power level better than the Blackrock, wouldn't she?

I don't think that's so.

Certainly, were Lucia Blackrock just an average person making that statement, I would agree with you absolutely.

Diana has YEARS of personal experience with Clark, and has fought for, with, and against him. How then could she NOT know his power levels better than some stranger from Peru? (or whatever country Lucia's from)

The problem is that the Blackrock specifically gives Lucia the power to DRAW AND CONTROL ENERGY. Superman's power, in other words.

She tells us so.

And she demonstrates it.

Right here:

Scan 2 of 4.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Wonder Woman ... would know his power level better than the Blackrock, wouldn't she?

I don't think that's so.

Certainly, were Lucia Blackrock just an average person making that statement, I would agree with you absolutely.

Diana has YEARS of personal experience with Clark, and has fought for, with, and against him. How then could she NOT know his power levels better than some stranger from Peru? (or whatever country Lucia's from)

The problem is that the Blackrock specifically gives Lucia the power to DRAW AND CONTROL ENERGY. Superman's power, in other words.

She tells us so.

And she demonstrates it.

Right here:

Scan 3 of 4.

A constantly recharging Superman is supposed to be accurately gauged by a villain that has only fought him a handful of times?

Notice, however, that Lucia is NOT able to handle Kara's attack, though identical in appearance to Superman's.

Lucia expressly TOLD us that she had come to KILL Kara to make Superman suffer just before this, too, so it's not because the villain is being soft or playing with Supergirl.

A very, VERY strong suggestion, then that Supergirl really IS that much more powerful than her cousin -- and stronger.

Just as Lucia says.

Scan 4 of 4.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Superman #223, Volume 2
Writer: Mark Verheiden
Pencillers: Ed Benes & Ivan Reis
Date: January 2006
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_2_223

Originally posted by -Pr-
A constantly recharging Superman is supposed to be accurately gauged by a villain that has only fought him a handful of times?

I wouldn't equate Lucia to Marvel Comics' Erik Lensherr telling us he can detect the strength of magnetic fields if that's what you mean, but a villain whose power is to CONTROL the energy contained in others should, almost by definition, have FAR better than normal ability to gauge how much power is there TO be controlled.

For that matter, Supergirl's power constantly recharges itself, too.

And she's "standing" right there for Lucia to make the comparison.

Why WOULDN'T Lucia be able to get a fairly good gauge?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I wouldn't equate Lucia to Marvel Comics' Erik Lensherr telling us he can detect the strength of magnetic fields if that's what you mean, but a villain whose power is to CONTROL the energy contained in others should, almost by definition, have FAR better than normal ability to gauge how much power is there TO be controlled.

For that matter, Supergirl's power constantly recharges itself, too.

And she's "standing" right there for Lucia to make the comparison.

Why WOULDN'T Lucia be able to get a fairly good gauge?

Okay, so let's say Lucia is a good gauge.

What does that do to those times when Superman is shown as her superior, which are more numerous and generally more impressive?

What a character does generally has more weight than what a character says, imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Okay, so let's say Lucia is a good gauge.

What does that do to those times when Superman is shown as her superior, which are more numerous and generally more impressive?

What a character does generally has more weight than what a character says, imo.

You need to give me some specific instances, 2004-2008 please, where Superman is shown as Kara's superior.

I honestly can't think of any at the moment, unless you're talking about a fight they had with each other.

But answer honestly if "he does better in fights" IS your answer, P.R.

Superman has more than TEN YEARS of fight experience over Kara. Unless you think I'm saying she has a VAST strength advantage over him, which I'm not, what would you EXPECT to be the result of the typical fight?

Why do you not treat someone like, say, Ultraman, to that same standard?

(Or perhaps you do? How does Ultraman rank in your mind against Superman?)

Originally posted by -Pr-
third party statements are rarely definitive proof

By the way, Answer One was I have no real disagreement with "more powerful".

Answer Two, with Lucia, I just covered.
I'll probably give a parallel case Supergirl had under Joe Kelly to reinforce the point.

Answer three, "third party statements are rarely definitive proof",
I agree with.
Note that Superman's speech in Supergirl #5, however, is an example of such an unproven statement.