Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You could be one of the participants from that M.I.T. study.No matter what the situation, no matter how much you're told, no matter how much you've known and personally experienced interacting with me, you consistently choose to ascribe it to character while giving yourself a pass.
I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt here, Blue. You are a hypocrite. Plain and simple. You take a fight or contest of strength and try to argue it as a showing of superiority, but then nitpick and strawman your way through to try and discredit and disprove showings that prove otherwise. You take the scans that Salsa and I present and cherry pick them to make your argument. Of course you can "prove" your point if you show what you want out of context. And when you can't nitpick and strawman? You simply ignore it. And just about every time you get called out for leaving-out context, you either brush it off like it's nothing or ignore it entirely. I've come to believe you're INTENTIONALLY dishonest. Like when I pointed-out you've claimed the JLA found Superman to be stronger than normal in MOT #13, yet it is NOT in the issue, and you never owned-up to it. You accused me of being unobservant because I didn't see the hair length difference between Supergirl and Dark Kara, yet made the claim that Wonder Woman just needed one punch to take-down her Kara and Superman required 4 attacks, missing that Superman only punched her twice, and oh yeah, Superman also attacked Diana's Kara just as many times before the final blow as he did his. Not to mention his Kara had more recovery time than Diana's. And so many other examples.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
In point of fact, I have no problem in saying the JLA table is durable.
Not even more durable than stone, if you want it that way.
Then why did you go directly to changing the subject so drastically? I feel I'd find several other examples of you doing just this if I were to dig through the past pages here. No, I think the thing is, you got caught with your pants down, but in a way you couldn't just brush it off since I've been making a bigger emphasis not only on you doing shit like this, but specifying examples. Numerous examples. It would be consistent with your posting history of strawmanning.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
[B]Why not go ALL the way, in fact, just for argument's sake? Why not simply say the JLA table is made of the most durable substance in the known DCU?Could even inertron hope to match it?
Perhaps it is a writer's plot point that it was able to be broken at all, but the writer needed a way for Superman to be released from it?
The reason I wouldn't go all the way is because this is CLEARLY a strawman you're trying to pull. It's abundantly clear that Superman being phased into the JLA's table is NOT a comparable example to Kara having rocks bonded in her skin. The only reason it's similar is due to the method used.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Falsely saying all that, however, would ignore the bare fact that, however durable it is or isn't, the table phasing attack debilitates Superman, it WAS the only time I could recall Superman suffering a phasing attack last night while writing my post, and Kara overcame the phasing attack, intentional or not, of Gakidou in Supergirl 13, who had been contracted to kill her.
Well, doesn't really matter if it's the only example you can think of, since they're not comparable. If you were punched in the face and were fine by Johnson, and I were hurt badly by my head being slammed into concrete by Carwin, it would not be comparable because they're both UFC fighters. Only an idiot would argue you were tougher than me based on that. But I'm not calling you an idiot, just desperate and biased.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Kara also fared much better against Sakki than her cousin.
MUCH better.
To the point where Gakidou teleported them out of there.Whereas Superman apparently had to be SAVED by a third party when HE went against Sakki many years earlier.
And all three stories were written by the same author, Joe Kelly.
Which is utterly irrelevant considering Kara's emotions were clearly the deciding factor in her fight with Sakki. Before her emotions effected him in a negative way, he was knocking her around Hollywood. In fact, she actually did MUCH WORSE before that happened. Superman's speedblitz actually had some kind of effect, all that happened in the Kara fight before the emotion-turning point was she got knocked around everywhere. And don't even dare bring-up the phasing attack. For you to emphasis that but leave-out that her emotions were the reason she was able to win proves you're the hypocrite I pointed you out to be.
And on the emotions thing, you painted yourself into a corner. Either her love had overcome her anger/hate and weakened him, or if it was too much to control it makes this comparison utterly worthless. Her having extreme rage means nothing about her power. If anything, it's like when Drax, after getting powered down(to my knowledge) suddenly one-shot kills Thanos, ripping his heart out. Drax did it because he had a specific power TO kill Thanos(since that's why Drax was made in the first place).
Oh, and this?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
And all three stories were written by the same author, Joe Kelly.
Just one more example that you're a hypocrite. You make a big deal about stories being done by the same author when it suits you case, but ignore when I've brought that up(which honestly, is largely in response to YOU making such a big deal out of it). Just like you made a big deal arguing that BIRTHRIGHT being retconned was irrelevant because it was the official Superman origin story at the time of a particular example being argued, but then dismiss Superman being severely effected by Kryptonite when comparing his performance against Luthor in Apokolips armor compared to Kara's as a retcon had it so she was slowly dying of Kryptonite poisoning, arguing she was more effected than he was. Can you say "hypocrite?" Here, I'll help you, "Hip-OH-Crit." And if you're offended? Oh well, your fault for me pointing it out numerous times in more subtle or sugar coated ways, and now being done with tolerating it.
And I'm at a point where I won't care if Pr closes the thread. The fact is, you have presented NOTHING to back your claim that Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman from 2003-2011. You nitpick and strawman the examples myself and others(mostly Salsa, but Abhi has too) showing that Superman is stronger from that time period. You keep going on and on about stuff from the Golden Age and Silver Age that has nothing to do with 2003-2011 and give the impression that it matters today. And you constantly change the subject keeping it off-topic to avoid giving the examples that have been asked and even demanded of you. As well as ignoring the only half-way decent argument was debunked as you leaving-out extenuating circumstances.
For way too long I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you MIGHT have something that I was unaware of. But after all this time of no examples, and your numerous excuses of you're strapped for time, but showing us you have plenty of time to nitpick and strawman the evidence against your claim, has convinced me that you're just talking out of your ass. That this is nothing but wishful thinking on your part, and you have no evidence.
I am more than satisfied that I've proven you wrong on your claim. I just can't let you go unopposed. If you want to show Wonder Woman through-out the eras, fine, but do it AFTER you make your case that she's stronger than him from 2003-2011. You haven't provided one single example of that.
Myself and others, on the other hand, have provided evidence. You said three of the reasons you believe she's stronger are feats, direct showings of strength against each other, and comparative performances against others.
You've shown no feats. And the best I can think of for Wonder Woman in that time period is moving Earth(barely) in JLA #75. She had help from Superman and J'Onn, and Superman wasn't at full strength. Superman has at LEAST 4 feats I can think of off the top of my head that surpass this after JLA #75. By a LOT, actually. And another that's a maybe.
You claim direct showings against each other. What are there for Wonder Woman? Superman on the other hand blatantly showed he was stronger than her twice in the FOR TOMORROW fight, twice in the SACRIFICE storyline, once in INFINITE CRISIS #1, and this is just what I'm aware of from the 2003-2011 period you claim Superman was powered down in.
You claim comparative performances, but have shown none. Superman on the other hand looked better than her against Mongul, Supergirl, Titus, Omacs and the Doomsday animates, all that I'm aware of from 2003-2011.
And the only response you have to the strength showings and comparative fights(don't think you've even attempted feats) is nitpicking and strawmanning.
At this point, if your next post isn't to make your case for Wonder Woman>Superman in strength based on actual examples relevant to that time period, and not nitpicking, strawmanning, wishful thinking and hypocrisy, I'm going to take that as concession that you have nothing. If you need time to make your case, so be it and tell us. But don't continue posting after until you've put it together. Based on your history, I figure it'll be going off-topic again to distract us and hope we forget you were supposed to make your case.