FF8 Party v.s. Ganondorf

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, no, not worthless. I wouldn't say that.
Just look at Blade Beam from Cloud, that Limit Break seemed exaggerated for you? Be honest. Remember that he can throw a energy through his blade. Tell me, he could have used that in Final Fantasy VII's plot? He used it to block Loz's attack in Advent Children.

How do we know he can throw energy through his blade?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I completely agree with you here. But tell me, what are things the characters couldn't do in the original game? Name me some.

A better question would be what COULD they do in the original game? Almost everything was redone. They couldn't run straight up walls, they couldn't leap 6 stories into the air, they couldn't do battle on falling building pieces...

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well, you call it Dragon Ball Z? Why? The developers didn't make any references to Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Z fights are in a higher level. Advent Children is like Matrix, in my opinion. I hope you agree.
Advent Children fights are more inaccurate than the Dissidia ones.

They are about the same, really.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Limitations of an early PSX game.

I've heard that argument before and it doesn't hold up. particularly in FFIX they had multiple opportunities to have Zidane do Dissidia stuff and they didn't. Not because they simply couldn't, but because they didn't want to.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What the heck are you talking about? Save thousands of lives? When? They've never used their GF's for small problems...... so yeah.

Trabia Garden. They shot missiles at it, but the team decided to ignore them because they didn't have enough time before the missiles fired at Balamb. Oh wait, except Zell can make it to Trabia garden in under 2 seconds, now why didn't they think of that?

Originally posted by Nephthys
None of which are being discussed, please stick to Final Fantasy 8, which is actually relevent.

No, it's very relevant. It shows that battle animations aren't actually related to the plot at all. They are often times exaggerated, and do not actually represent the characters abilities. Especially when they contradict the plot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that we do. Zell and the rest of the party are specifically stated to be enhanced humans.

I never said they weren't. I simply said we don't see them being enhanced to the point you argue. It isn't stated just HOW enhanced they are. Only that GFs up their abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm talking about the battle animations, y'know, [b]when they actually happen on-screen. [/B]

And I'm saying battle animations aren't accurate representations of characters abilities. We see this with Super Nova, We KNOW this is the case.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is why we can actually see how much it augments him [b]IN BATTLES. And I don't know what you're talking about with the 'BIG problems'. Elaborate please. [/B]

I already gave you one. Trabia garden. In fact, I can't remember if there were any more, but ANY time sensitive mission or mini game is a contradiction to that battle animation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Firstly, Supernova is in a completely different game. Secondly, its the only one I know of thats 'illusionary'. Thirdly, I'm pretty sure that it was actually officially stated to be as such, which none of Zells moves are. Fourthly, Supernova makes no logical sense, even in the stylised, illogical world of gaming, which is why its considered illusionary/impossible. The same cannot be said for Zells moves, none of which are impossible, merely perplexing.

Not true. The fact that it is from a different game is irrelevant. I'm talking about battle animations in general. Zell's animation doesn't make logical sense, MOST battle animations don't, I provided you with a list of them. The simple fact of the matter is that that battle animation does not sync up with the plot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It really is not. Its just stupid of the developers to have made him so overpowered and not to have considered that.

They probably didn't make him overpowered, that's the point. People do things in battle animations they can't actually do ALL THE TIME.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Different game, different rules.

Not true. Again, I'm talking about battle animations in general.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Cloud does it once. Why doesn't he do it in other fights? It was enough to one-shot freakin' Sephiroth, canonally the most powerful being in th euniverse. I'm sure it would have come in handy against the dragon, or against those gay bikers he was fighting. But he doesn't. Becuase of the Plot. Becuase that would have been boring. Becuase plot holes exist and becuase even if a character doesn't spam something every 5 seconds, if he's shown he can do something, then he can still bloody do it.

But Zell didn't show he can do it! He did it in a battle animation, the worst sort of "evidence" for a characters abilities you could ever think of. It's FAR more likely that Zell simply isn't suppose to be able to run light speed, and he does so in a battle animation because it's a battle animation and it happens CONSTANTLY, rather than, he can do it, and he just doesn't for absolutely no good reason.

Originally posted by Nephthys
His charging slice is a limit brake of his. The one that scars blondie (forgot his name) that is.

That didn't look like anything special, it just looked like a running slash to me.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vincent Valentine can. All characters can in Dissidia, where they all have the same powers as from the game.

Dissidia is hardly accurate.

Originally posted by TacDavey
How do we know he can throw energy through his blade?

Are you joking? He did it in Advent Children to destroy Loz's attack, remember...? So he can. Now, where in Final Fantasy VII he could have used that attack? I mean in the plot.

Originally posted by TacDavey
A better question would be what COULD they do in the original game? Almost everything was redone. They couldn't run straight up walls, they couldn't leap 6 stories into the air, they couldn't do battle on falling building pieces...

The ones that runs on the walls (If I am not mistaken) are Reno and Yuffie. I agree they never did that in the game. So I suppose that is very inaccurate. But... We have to see why Yuffie didn't. You can't say she didn't because she can't or she couldn't, we have to decide logically by looking at the plot why she didn't.

The Dissidia fights aren't like Advent Children.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Are you joking? He did it in Advent Children to destroy Loz's attack, remember...? So he can. Now, where in Final Fantasy VII he could have used that attack? I mean in the plot.

But again, AC isn't an accurate representation. But okay, let's say, for the sake of argument, that he can. What did this show again?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The ones that runs on the walls (If I am not mistaken) are Reno and Yuffie. I agree they never did that in the game. So I suppose that is very inaccurate. But... We have to see why Yuffie didn't. You can't say she didn't because she can't or she couldn't, we have to decide logically by looking at the plot why she didn't.

Well, she can't. There isn't any good reason she shouldn't have been doing what she was doing in AC in the game. And it wasn't just Yuffie. Cloud was bouncing off walls like spider-man, and he runs up Bahamuts back too, while dragging his sword through it.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The Dissidia fights aren't like Advent Children.

Yes they are, even the intro scene looks like AC, don't try denying this again. It's unmistakably like AC.

Originally posted by TacDavey
But again, AC isn't an accurate representation. But okay, let's say, for the sake of argument, that he can. What did this show again?

But Cloud performs that attack! Why you have difficulties in understanding this? It's like saying that the attack that finished Sephiroth (Omnislash Version 5) is inaccurate, therefore never happened, when we see it happened like the rest of the attacks they performs, it's canon, Tac. You have to answer to my question:

Where in Final Fantasy VII he could have used that attack? I mean in the plot.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Well, she can't. There isn't any good reason she shouldn't have been doing what she was doing in AC in the game. And it wasn't just Yuffie. Cloud was bouncing off walls like spider-man, and he runs up Bahamuts back too, while dragging his sword through it.

If we can't logically decide why she couldn't have performed that, then this point seems meaningless, you can't say she can't without any reason.

Dissidia is definitely not like Advent Children, its intro is indeed not like Advent Children. And yes, I'll keep denying it.

This thread is so far off track. 😐

Do you guys agree, or disagree, that Ganon stomps? If you disagree, I would like to help explain my opinion and hopefully convert you to it.

In my case I don't care because I don't know him.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But Cloud performs that attack! Why you have difficulties in understanding this? It's like saying that the attack that finished Sephiroth (Omnislash Version 5) is inaccurate, therefore never happened, when we see it happened like the rest of the attacks they performs, it's canon, Tac. You have to answer to my question:

Where in Final Fantasy VII he could have used that attack? I mean in the plot.

But GrieverSquall, we BOTH admit that AC is inaccurate, so yes, Cloud cannot fly through the air slashing like a mad man. We also see him running straight up Bahamuts back, but we know THAT is inaccurate as well. I thought we were in agreement here...

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
If we can't logically decide why she couldn't have performed that, then this point seems meaningless, you can't say she can't without any reason.

No, don't you see? That's the point. She SHOULD have been able to do what she did in AC, IF AC is an accurate representation. It wasn't, so she can't. She cannot run up walls, and she cannot backflip off of buildings and be perfectly okay. Not in the original FF7.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Dissidia is definitely not like Advent Children, its intro is indeed not like Advent Children. And yes, I'll keep denying it.

You do that, but no one else is fooled. If you can't see Dissidia is like AC then you are simply mistaken. Deny it all you want, the rest of us see it. It's clear as day.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This thread is so far off track. 😐

Do you guys agree, or disagree, that Ganon stomps? If you disagree, I would like to help explain my opinion and hopefully convert you to it.

Yes, I would say that Ganon would win in a fight with the FF8 team. They couldn't hurt him.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
In my case I don't care because I don't know him.

Ha ha ha. Then why did you even come to this thread?

Originally posted by TacDavey
But GrieverSquall, we BOTH admit that AC is inaccurate, so yes, Cloud cannot fly through the air slashing like a mad man. We also see him running straight up Bahamuts back, but we know THAT is inaccurate as well. I thought we were in agreement here...

Yes, I agree. Advent Children being inaccurate in the way they performs doesn't means Cloud didn't used Blade Beam which by the way it's one of his unique attacks.
I'm asking if he could have used Blade Beam in the plot. That's all.

Originally posted by TacDavey
She cannot run up walls, and she cannot backflip off of buildings and be perfectly okay. Not in the original FF7.

I'm not saying she can. I need to know why she couldn't have done it in Final Fantasy VII or where she could have it done it. I don't know if you're getting my point. Maybe I am not very good at explaining it. For example, you proved that Zell's attack running around the world is basically impossible.

Originally posted by TacDavey
You do that, but no one else is fooled. If you can't see Dissidia is like AC then you are simply mistaken. Deny it all you want, the rest of us see it. It's clear as day.

It doesn't mean I'm fooled whatsoever. I don't care if you say the rest of us, with that you won't change how they performs in Advent Children and what is stated for Advent Children. Dissidia could be similar but isn't made in that Matrix style at all. The the only inaccurate thing I see from Dissidia is Cecil going from his Dark armor to his Paladin armor, I think that needs a GOOD explanation, but nothing related to Advent Children. Besides, I still doubt if Dissidia is canon, but It's not definitely like Advent Children in animation. If my doubt about Dissidia helps you, I am glad.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Ha ha ha. Then why did you even come to this thread?

To discuss about the animations and stuff since you came with the topic. I can leave if you guys wants... No problem.

I disagree that Ganon stomps! Also, GS don't quit, you've got him on the ropes, even if you do undermine my argument! You douche! (jk)

I disagree that Ganon stomps!

Hang on I've got it here somewhere.... There we go:

Originally said by ME

Well Squall for one can create a giant beam attack that extends into space, other energy attacks and use various Limit breaks that kick ass AC Cloud style. Also in Dissidia he was going toe to toe with Sephiroth, beat Kuja and the Warrior of Light and beat a time-stopping Ultimecia twice. In fact I believe the second time she was Time Compressing, which would mean he beat TC Ultimecia solo.

Zell can create fissures in the ground with punches, showing how unbelievably freakin' stong he is and run around the planet in about 4 seconds.

Selphie can cast The End, which one-shots anything in the game except undead and a few of the bosses.

Rinoa has her dog Angelo, which is about as strong as Zell for some reason, can grant the team temporary invincibility and can, according to wiki, 'knock enemies into space and attack them 8 times, doing heavy physical damage to one enemy'. She can also activate her Angel wing state in which all her attack's become 5x as powerful and she turns into a magic-based beserker.

Irvine has a series of gun-based attacks including gert ****-off lazers and defence ignoring bullets etc.

Quistis can use a bunch of Blue magic, as indicated here- http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/...Fantasy_VIII%29

Between all of that happening simultaneously, I think Ganon goes down.

Now Ganon's hardcoar, but I don't think hes hardcore enough to fight 6 superhuman badass' and live.

Well Squall for one can create a giant beam attack that extends into space, other energy attacks and use various Limit breaks that kick ass AC Cloud style.

Also in Dissidia

Zell can create fissures in the ground with punches, showing how unbelievably freakin' stong he is and run around the planet in about 4 seconds.

Selphie can cast The End, which one-shots anything in the game except undead and a few of the bosses.

Rinoa has her dog Angelo, which is about as strong as Zell for some reason, can grant the team temporary invincibility and can, according to wiki, 'knock enemies into space and attack them 8 times, doing heavy physical damage to one enemy'. She can also activate her Angel wing state in which all her attack's become 5x as powerful and she turns into a magic-based beserker.

Irvine has a series of gun-based attacks including gert ****-off lazers and defence ignoring bullets etc.

Now Ganon's hardcoar, but I don't think hes hardcore enough to fight 6 superhuman badass' and live.

My opinion:

Ganon merges the battlefield with the twilight realm, rendering himself imperceptible, traps them each in a magic prison, makes it eternal night, causes a permanent storm because he can, and punches them one at a time.

No one except Zell and Rinoa have any superhuman feats, Zell is shown to be above human in strength/striking power, Rinoa is a powerful sorceress, by FFVIII standards that is "super."

I forgot about the Twilight ability. -__-

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
I forgot about the Twilight ability. -__-

Originally posted by Nephthys
I disagree that Ganon stomps! Also, GS don't quit, you've got him on the ropes, even if you do undermine my argument! You douche! (jk)

Sorry, lol. 😄

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yes, I agree. Advent Children being inaccurate in the way they performs doesn't means Cloud didn't used Blade Beam which by the way it's one of his unique attacks.
I'm asking if he could have used Blade Beam in the plot. That's all.

I suppose he could. I'm not sure how far to take his limit breaks. I don't think I can find anyway of saying he can fire meteors out of his sword for example. In the end, I think it's too hard to really say. I mean, what is Blade Beam really? It's energy of some sort being shot out of his sword. How does he do that? Can he do it with anything else? Can he shoot energy at will?

I don't think the developers paid much attention to things like that, they just made an attack that looked cool. Another reason we have to be careful with battle animations.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I'm not saying she can. I need to know why she couldn't have done it in Final Fantasy VII or where she could have it done it. I don't know if you're getting my point. Maybe I am not very good at explaining it. For example, you proved that Zell's attack running around the world is basically impossible.

Well, anytime they needed to get to the top of something, for example. They climbed a mountain in one part. Or Cloud needed to get to the top of the Shinra building once, which would be a lot easier had he just run up it instead of fighting his way through the soldiers.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
It doesn't mean I'm fooled whatsoever. I don't care if you say the rest of us, with that you won't change how they performs in Advent Children and what is stated for Advent Children. Dissidia could be similar but isn't made in that Matrix style at all. The the only inaccurate thing I see from Dissidia is Cecil going from his Dark armor to his Paladin armor, I think that needs a GOOD explanation, but nothing related to Advent Children. Besides, I still doubt if Dissidia is canon, but It's not definitely like Advent Children in animation. If my doubt about Dissidia helps you, I am glad.

GrieverSquall, what do they do in AC that they can't in Dissidia? They run up walls, just like Dissidia. They jump way up in the air, like Dissidia. They send people flying with sword swings like in Dissidia. The battles are unmistakeably AC.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
To discuss about the animations and stuff since you came with the topic. I can leave if you guys wants... No problem.

No, I was simply wondering why you clicked on a topic concerning a character you didn't even know about. Did you know we had strayed off the original topic somehow?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kinda hax, isn't it?

Originally posted by TacDavey
I suppose he could. I'm not sure how far to take his limit breaks. I don't think I can find anyway of saying he can fire meteors out of his sword for example. In the end, I think it's too hard to really say. I mean, what is Blade Beam really? It's energy of some sort being shot out of his sword. How does he do that? Can he do it with anything else? Can he shoot energy at will?

Exactly, he couldn't fire Meteors through his Blade, even Advent Children says it to us, he can't. I think you should ask those questions to its creators... Hey, I can't really answer to that. He does. How? I don't know. When he learned it? I don't know. You see... My friend. The fact he can do it.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Well, anytime they needed to get to the top of something, for example. They climbed a mountain in one part. Or Cloud needed to get to the top of the Shinra building once, which would be a lot easier had he just run up it instead of fighting his way through the soldiers.

Umm... Yeah. But Yuffie wasn't there... I mean, she wasn't with Cloud in that Shinra building. Cloud can't run on the walls, that's pretty clear. About the mountain... That's not the same, Yuffie wouldn't run ALL a giant mountain to reach its top, that's illogical. Even if she does (which I don't think so) what about the others...?

Originally posted by TacDavey
GrieverSquall, what do they do in AC that they can't in Dissidia? They run up walls, just like Dissidia. They jump way up in the air, like Dissidia. They send people flying with sword swings like in Dissidia. The battles are unmistakeably AC.

What? They can't jump at all, then? Nobody can jump? Not all of them runs on the walls. When they sends people flying in Dissidia? You mean in the Gameplay or its intro? I wouldn't call the Warrior of Light and Garland sword fight in the intro from Dissidia inaccurate, why would I? I wouldn't call Terra or Zidane's feats in the intro inaccurate, I wouldn't call any of what they perfoms in that intro inaccurate, I wouldn't. None of those fights are near Advent Children ones, that movie is very overrated as all the Final Fantasy VII universe, even its creators admitted it wasn't 100% realistic. We can't say the same about all the games or remakes Square-Enix are making, i.e. Final Fantasy IV, III or even XIII that have the same CG technology they used in Advent Children. Hmmm... Most of the fans wouldn't agree with you in this.

Originally posted by TacDavey
No, I was simply wondering why you clicked on a topic concerning a character you didn't even know about. Did you know we had strayed off the original topic somehow?

No, I don't know anything about Nintendo characters.
Yes, my apologies... We can discuss this elsewhere if you want... But I don't know where.

I am quite sure that at least one or some of these charatcers have the merest amount of magic resistance to survive the twilight effect. What did it even affect? normal hylians? nothing powerful I would bet, nothing on the level of these FF8 heroes. Besides Zant had to defeat Zeldas army and hold Zelda before he called the twilight effect.