FF8 Party v.s. Ganondorf

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, he couldn't fire Meteors through his Blade, even Advent Children says it to us, he can't. I think you should ask those questions to its creators... Hey, I can't really answer to that. He does. How? I don't know. When he learned it? I don't know. You see... My friend. The fact he can do it.

Alright then. He can shoot beams from his sword.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Umm... Yeah. But Yuffie wasn't there... I mean, she wasn't with Cloud in that Shinra building. Cloud can't run on the walls, that's pretty clear. About the mountain... That's not the same, Yuffie wouldn't run ALL a giant mountain to reach its top, that's illogical. Even if she does (which I don't think so) what about the others...?

No, Cloud ran up Bahamuts back, which was pretty much a straight up climb. He can do it.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What? They can't jump at all, then? Nobody can jump? Not all of them runs on the walls. When they sends people flying in Dissidia? You mean in the Gameplay or its intro? I wouldn't call the Warrior of Light and Garland sword fight in the intro from Dissidia inaccurate, why would I? I wouldn't call Terra or Zidane's feats in the intro inaccurate, I wouldn't call any of what they perfoms in that intro inaccurate, I wouldn't. None of those fights are near Advent Children ones, that movie is very overrated as all the Final Fantasy VII universe, even its creators admitted it wasn't 100% realistic. We can't say the same about all the games or remakes Square-Enix are making, i.e. Final Fantasy IV, III or even XIII that have the same CG technology they used in Advent Children. Hmmm... Most of the fans wouldn't agree with you in this.

No? Zidane latches on to Tidus's leg with his tail and throws himself halfway across the battle field. Nothing unrealistic about that? Squall and Sephiroth do a little dance in the air in their fight. And that's just the intro, let's not forget about the rest of the game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am quite sure that at least one or some of these charatcers have the merest amount of magic resistance to survive the twilight effect. What did it even affect? normal hylians? nothing powerful I would bet, nothing on the level of these FF8 heroes. Besides [b]Zant had to defeat Zeldas army and hold Zelda before he called the twilight effect. [/B]

I don't think anyone avoids the Twilight Effect. Everyone you meet is ghosted when that's in effect, except Zelda for obvious reasons. Link only avoided it because of Midna.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am quite sure that at least one or some of these charatcers have the merest amount of magic resistance to survive the twilight effect. What did it even affect? normal hylians? nothing powerful I would bet, nothing on the level of these FF8 heroes. Besides [b]Zant had to defeat Zeldas army and hold Zelda before he called the twilight effect. [/B]

These characters are all featless in magic resistance, though what really matters is soul resistance, it is a soul attack.

I have heard the use of twilight but never what its actually done. Can you even show it happening?

Prove its a soul attack? doesnt sound like its targeting the soul to me, if the soul is the only thing that remains it could just be a full body attack. And featless? I hear they have spells that can protect them against various things, I find it hard to belive that they dont have magic resistance among those spells.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have heard the use of twilight but never what its actually done. Can you even show it happening?

Prove its a soul attack? doesnt sound like its targeting the soul to me, if the soul is the only thing that remains it could just be a full body attack. And featless? I hear they have spells that can protect them against various things, I find it hard to belive that they dont have magic resistance among those spells.

Because it renders you into a bodiless, ignorant soul without doing a thing to the body. They have no feats, except Zell, who shook the car of a train with a punch.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I could, but do not care to.

Because it renders you into a bodiless, ignorant soul without doing a thing to the body. They have no feats, except Zell, who shook the car of a train with a punch.

By the sounds of it from Zeldapedia, it transforms you into a spirit, it doesnt take your soul. If all its done is turn normal entities and powerless beings then anyone who can call up a magic resistance spell should be able to counter it with ease assuming twilight works against these stronger entities anyway. Are the people whos bodies are changed into spirits still lieing there?

YouTube video

4:05

As I understood it, it's like superimposing one dimension over another. Ganondorf can act in both, but the FF cast can only act in one, and will be unable to do anything. When they're inside it, they become intangible except for the fact that Ganondorf can still hit them.

So its not soul taking ,its just like BFR, teleporting them into another dimension. It just so happens that in the twilight realm, their spiritual rather than physical. I cant see how this could help Ganon, it would just give them spiritual body rather than physical. Also it says "without light they became as spirits", surely someone on this team can summon some form of light.

Also when did Ganon attack/hit someone in the twilight realm? can you show me this plz?

Originally posted by Burning thought
So its not soul taking ,its just like BFR, teleporting them into another dimension. It just so happens that in the twilight realm, their spiritual rather than physical. I cant see how this could help Ganon, it would just give them spiritual body rather than physical. Also it says "without light they became as spirits", surely someone on this team can summon some form of light.

Also when did Ganon attack/hit someone in the twilight realm? can you show me this plz?

Ganon can act freely in the Twilight Realm. He can do everything he normally can, including hitting you.

It's not a magic attack, so magic spells don't counter it. It's simply another realm. Unless you have Midna or the light spirits on your side, you're pretty screwed.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Ganon can act freely in the Twilight Realm. He can do everything he normally can, including hitting you.

It's not a magic attack, so magic spells don't counter it. It's simply another realm. Unless you have Midna or the light spirits on your side, you're pretty screwed.

I would like to see him do this in a video please.

The vid says "without light" they were transformed. Therefore if someone here can create light, twilight should be no problem.

Ganon literally merged two seperate dimensions. Shining a flashlight at it won't seperate them.

Maybe not a flashlight but a more multidirectional light like an orb of light, or some enchanted spell that creates light around it. And no, it wont "seperate" the dimensions, only give light to the party so their not affected by the spirtual transformation assuming it works on anything but lowly powerless entities like normal people.

The power of friendship sadly doesn't work on Twilight, no one in the FF8 party can resist it. Overlapping two dimensions isn't something you can cure with just light. The light spirits had to be awakened to fully dispel the twilight and seperate the dimensions. You can't just hang out around a lantern and create a bubble of non-twilight. 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
Maybe not a flashlight but a more multidirectional light like an orb of light, or some enchanted spell that creates light around it. And no, it wont "seperate" the dimensions, only give light to the party so their not affected by the spirtual transformation assuming it works on anything but lowly powerless entities like normal people.

ScreamPaste is right. There are still lanterns and everything hanging around. By "light" they mean Holy power like that of the Goddesses, Zelda, or the Light Spirits.

And we know Ganon can act freely in the Twilight World because it's stated in the game, I believe. It would be a pretty foolish plan to cover the world in Twilight were he himself was powerless. That makes no sense. He was banished to the Twilight world through the mirror, just as Link went through it. Link also had full control of his abilities in the Twilight World.

Originally posted by TacDavey
And we know Ganon can act freely in the Twilight World because it's stated in the game, I believe. It would be a pretty foolish plan to cover the world in Twilight were he himself was powerless. That makes no sense. He was banished to the Twilight world through the mirror, just as Link went through it. Link also had full control of his abilities in the Twilight World.

I would still like to actually see this evidence for what Ganondorf can actually do while in the twilight realm. So far the maximum strength of entity that this power has worked on is an ordinairy man. All those with magical artifacts like a triforce piece seem to be unharmed.

Trabia Garden. They shot missiles at it, but the team decided to ignore them because they didn't have enough time before the missiles fired at Balamb. Oh wait, except Zell can make it to Trabia garden in under 2 seconds, now why didn't they think of that?

I don't think you realise how big a planet is. If Zell is off in his directions by a single degree he's going to miss it completely, particularily becuase he hasn't shown he can change direction at that speed and they have no idea where they are and have no map, so unless you think he should be running around the entire globe looking for teh Garden, maybe he it just wasn't feasible. And what if he hits someone at that speed? Or if he runs through a village? Or maybe the creators just didn't think of that. Maybe the whole party didn't. And what would he have done when he got there? Besides, I'm pretty sure Trabia gets hit only about 10 seconds after they were fired, which is why Selphie asks if 'that was a miss'. Zell didn't have time to do jack.

No, it's very relevant. It shows that battle animations aren't actually related to the plot at all. They are often times exaggerated, and do not actually represent the characters abilities. Especially when they contradict the plot.

Only sometimes are they unrelated to the plot, look at FF-13/12, where everything happens in real-time yet still in turn-based battle animations. Do they not represent the characters abilities? The human, swing a sword abilities which are totally realistic? Some systems are more 'exaggerated' than others, they are not the same thing.

I never said they weren't. I simply said we don't see them being enhanced to the point you argue. It isn't stated just HOW enhanced they are. Only that GFs up their abilities.

Which is why we can see how enhanced they are by looking at the gameplay. You are trying to say that their abilities are not humanly possible, when it is made clear that they are beyond human capabilities. Problem solved.

And I'm saying battle animations aren't accurate representations of characters abilities. We see this with Super Nova, We KNOW this is the case.

Completely different thing.

I already gave you one. Trabia garden. In fact, I can't remember if there were any more, but ANY time sensitive mission or mini game is a contradiction to that battle animation.

That would be because there aren't anymore. Just one instance of possible stupidity on the writers part which I've already explained away.

Not true. The fact that it is from a different game is irrelevant. I'm talking about battle animations in general. Zell's animation doesn't make logical sense, MOST battle animations don't, I provided you with a list of them. The simple fact of the matter is that the battle animation does not sync up with the plot.

Zells limit brake actually DOESN'T make sense for anything other than if he ran around the world. What the hell else would he do by super-speeding off the screen then coming in from the other side? Baking cookies? And you'll notice that I explained away your entire list.

They probably didn't make him overpowered, that's the point. People do things in battle animations they can't actually do ALL THE TIME.

There is absolutely no possible way for you to prove that characters can't do their battle animations at will. By stint of actually having proof, my argument automatically wins.

But Zell didn't show he can do it!

He did so on-screen. You learn the move out of battle. What more do you want?!

He did it in a battle animation, the worst sort of "evidence" for a characters abilities you could ever think of.

It is still evidence! Which is more than your position has. And informed abilities are the worst sort of evidence btw, becuase they could be lying or wrong. You can't be wrong visually! You can only lie visually through illusion, and there is nothing remotely suggesting its an illusion except faulty supposition and a few instances of plot fail.

Dissidia is hardly accurate.

Dissidia has been canonally stated to have been treated like a main title and the characters were said to have their own, unaltered abilities. Just becuase its 'like-AC' doesn't make it unreal and neither does something being unrealistic mean its unreal either. What happens on the scrren is fact unless stated otherwise.

Dissidia has been canonally stated to have been treated like a main title

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That's justa battle animation and is pretty featless. 😐 Also, Ganon > AC Cloud.

Noncanon.

The planet thing's been dealt with, battle animation for the lulz. Zell doesn't sound strong enough to hurt Ganon. See the Midna example. Coincidentally, Ganon with a punch can destroy a large section of his castle's central tower.

1. A crapshoot.
2. Featless. It's not even said what The End does.
3. Ganon is certainly > boss level.

Magerage sounds neato, but can she compete with Ganon's own magic in this state?

How do these bullets work? Do they have feats? What do they work on?

I think he's plenty hardcoar enough.

My opinion:

Ganon merges the battlefield with the twilight realm, rendering himself imperceptible, traps them each in a magic prison, makes it eternal night, causes a permanent storm because he can, and punches them one at a time.

Giant space lazers don't need feats, they're awesome by default. Though seriously, its sheer size would make the overall energy utilised enormass (I fail spelling).

😒

Dissidia is canon.

Planet thing is relevent until proven otherwise, which it has not been. And we did visit the Midna thing, remember? Its a non-feat. Without getting into the physics in great detail, I think creating a fissure in the ground is above braking a floor/whatever.

The End defeats everything regardless of defence, reflect, magic or otherwise. It only doesn't work on bosses to create an artificial difficulty. And it doing so is pure gameplay mechanic anyway.

Well, given that Rinoa has base Ultimecia's total magical energy, I guess the magerage would be 5x base Ultimecia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW9vCNWGKo0 Heres all his shots, imo, they're probably not going to do much, though some are nifty.

My opinion:

Angelo makes everyone invincible to attacks, magic and, key, status effects. They are unchanged by the change in location and the team beat Ganon into submission.

Treated like one, as in they worked hard on it, and endeavoured to give it the same quality of the main series, but it's not canon.

I wasn't refering to its canonicity (of which it is), but to its physics and the capabilities of the cast. I think at least.

Okay, a couple of things without going through a huge list of replies.

Nephthys:

You continually assert that all the problems that Zell's limit break brings up is just the developers being stupid. Is this really your defense? Maybe Super Nova was just the developers being stupid. Maybe they were retarded enough to think the sun and galaxy could be destroyed and everything still be okay at the end.

It is FAR more logical to assume that the developers AREN'T idiots, and that they simply did what they did with Super Nova. They didn't care. They don't care about animation something realistic, they just want it looking cool.

You are faced with plot instances that down right contradict the battle animation, and you hold on with feeble defenses such as, maybe he would hit a person, or maybe he would hit a village, or maybe he would get the trajectory off. ALL of which can be said about the battle animation in the first place. In-fact, it's pretty well impossible for him to NOT hit one of those things when he does that attack. Unless, of course, he has the ability to change direction and dodge them, which completely destroys your "unable to aim well" argument.

Face facts. The battle animation simply doesn't fit. But you claim, "that's just a really big brain fart from the developers." No, I think not. I think they did what they do with a lot of battle animations. They exaggerated.

Look at Squall's Blasting Zone. It goes into space. Do you realize that it he ACTUALLY performed that attack, most of the world would be in ruins? That blade slice would cut through a large chunk of the earths surface.

They have fun with battle animations, they do it CONSTANTLY. This isn't something new and it isn't the developers being stupid.

Also, Dissidia isn't an accurate representation of the characters abilities. Squall cannot run up walls without breaking a sweat in FF8. It's made to be like AC, which was redone DBZ style to make it look cooler, but it's not realistic.

Originally posted by TacDavey
No, Cloud ran up Bahamuts back, which was pretty much a straight up climb. He can do it.

We're done about Yuffie, then? She can do it? I think yes, then.
Let's look at Cloud now.

I watched the scene again, I have the movie. First off, Cloud was threw and aided by his friends to be able to jump and reach Bahamut like that, at those heights, otherwise he couldn't have done it. Secondly, I have heard that he used a Limit Break there on Bahamut: 'Climhazzard'. But if this this is untrue, Cloud still was the remain enough strength to slash Bahamut, remember he was aided to be able to do it, otherwise he couldn't have even reached Bahamut.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Zidane latches on to Tidus's leg with his tail and throws himself halfway across the battle field. Nothing unrealistic about that?

Nothing unrealistic about Zidane. Tidus, however, was just running and evading Kuja's attacks, one of those attacks actually reaches Tidus sending him to fly by the impact (explosion). At least, that's what I can see. Why I would take that as unrealistic? That's what the creators thinks they can perform together.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Squall and Sephiroth do a little dance in the air in their fight. And that's just the intro, let's not forget about the rest of the game.

But they are super-humans and Squall is performing Renzokuken on Sephiroth, they lasted just a few seconds on air before falling. Plus, are you suggesting that the Final Fantasy characters can't defy Gravity? Yeah, the rest of the game. We see Squall drawing his Gunblade with Magic (like Sora drawing his Keyblade), I think THAT is unrealistic. Or Cecil's case, but we are talking about obvious exaggerations here. Hell, I am even admitting those for you, lol. But again we need to see logically.