FF8 Party v.s. Ganondorf

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It froze the Volcano in WW, but they are the same item in both games.

Same item but not the same power. Light Arrows in LttP kill Ganon but they only stun him in OoT. The Master Sword has light infusion which can defeat Twili and in LttP, it can throw weak magic blasts and gets upgrades through tempering and a Great Fairy.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Military soldiers can't revive themselves or be practically invincible. Darknuts aren't always living armor.

Stalfos don't revive themselves when their bones are destroyed and none of them are invincible. Darknuts being living or non-living doesn't matter as they're foes encased in medieval armor and use medieval weapons.

That's nice, but doesn't help them here.

It does since they have faced much worse than Ganondorf.

Why does this matter again? Ganon can do it across dimensions, anyway. Not comparable.

He never possesses anybody across dimensions. Agahnim was just an alterego that Ganon used to deceive the king and brainwash the knights of Hyrule.

Any of them pull off a genocide?

All three of them are capable of making genocide especially Rinoa who awakened as a sorceress and has Adel's power.

"Throughout the game Sorceresses are seen utilizing telekinesis, teleportation, telepathy, mind control, mental possession, control over the elements, the installation life into inanimate objects, projection of kinetic barriers, the capacity to phase through solid matter, and enhanced strength and endurance. Sorceresses also demonstrate the ability to alter their physical appearance to some extent."

Gameplay weakpoint. Light Arrows can be used, as well. Besides, both are Legendary Weapons.

No it's not. There's no way OoT Link could even use the Master Sword without beating Ganon using the Megaton Hammer/Biggoron Sword. In TP, Ganon gets hurt by arrows and wolf attacks.

Evidence, man. You're in a cycle. "Ganondorf's weaker because he's weaker" is highly counterproductive.

Adel couldn't be beaten even though GFs were discovered and the power that can be drawn from them. She had to be sealed and when the FF8 party faced her, she was weakened from being in frozen state for a long time.

If you go by cutscenes, yes it can. Every time, Ganondorf is taken out in 3 hits or less.

There are not cutscenes of Link killing anything in one hit. It only shows finishing blows.

But not in Wind Waker, so why does this matter?

The arrows and Master Sword aren't that powerful in the beginning of the Zelda timeline.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I doubt that highly, since those soldiers get taken out by students with swords. If a mercenary in training can take them down, an undead tank with giant axe can.

Those students are already full-fledged mercenaries. Link in OoT had no sword training before his adventure started and took out Lizalfos.

And Link fights giant lazer shooting spiders,[

FF8 has BGH251F2, which is a robot that does the same thing.

Powerful fusing sorceresses,

At the start of Time Compression, the FF8 party had to face 11 sorceresses. The first six could do everything Twinrova did and they're the weakest in that fight.

giant undead demons,

So did the FF8 party. It's called Gargantua

Massive suits of walking armor with giant axes...

The FF8 party fought bigger suits of walking armor - the Iron Giant. And it can increase it's defenses with Mighty Guard.

Right, because Selphie, Quistis, and Rinoa have the "power of the gods" as the Triforce has been described. But again. Zelda is like a football player and they are like soccer players. They are both powerful in different areas. Sadly, Zelda's area of expertise is the only one that would really come in handy against Ganon.

Zelda is defenseless without the Light Arrows. Even with the Triforce of Wisdom, OoT Zelda couldn't stop a pair of Stalfos and TP Zelda couldn't beat a group of Twili.

Yup, that's exactly why not one of those things kill him. In fact, they don't do much more than cause him to flinch or get mildly irritated. None of them are ever used to deliver the finishing blow, as none of them can.

Using the Megaton Hammer/Biggoron Sword brought Ganon to his knees and deactivated his fire wall.

Castlevania... so why is it important in a discussion on FF8 and LoZ?

Just stating that there are weapons above the Master Sword and Light Arrows and that it would hurt Ganon.

What makes you say they are weak? And we've been over LoZ and LttP before as well.

The Light Arrows only stunned in OoT but did kill in LoZ and LttP.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're arguing from gameplay mechanixs, again. Failure,. In canon we know they can freeze volcanoes.

In OoT, Ice Arrows only made ice platforms and Fire Arrows were only capable of breaking certain objects. They don't have the same power as in WW.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Ganon TKs them and breaks their spines.

Ganon is getting killed by Rinoa alone.

Ganondorf lives and happily ever after in the same sentence? lol

Ay, can Ganon TK more then one at a time? (can't recall)

Originally posted by BloodRain
Ganondorf lives and happily ever after in the same sentence? lol

Ay, can Ganon TK more then one at a time? (can't recall)

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
FF8 has BGH251F2, which is a robot that does the same thing

That's not X-ATM092?

I forgot that the FF8 party can draw magic from their foes.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
That's not X-ATM092?

I used the other robot since it had a laser cannon.

Ah, I see. But this one have a laser attack too.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Ah, I see. But this one have a laser attack too.

I could've sworn it shot explosives.

Ganon getting killed by Rinoa?

😆 😆 😆

serious Sin, that's the best joke I every heard. I mean a guy who can turn a world into darkness and TK's Castles, will get defeated by a powerless witch who relies on Deus ex machina to defeat someone who can stop the life out of her.

Seriously Rinoa gets her stuff wrecked.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Ganon getting killed by Rinoa?

😆 😆 😆

serious Sin, that's the best joke I every heard. I mean a guy who can turn a world into darkness and TK's Castles, will get defeated by a powerless witch who relies on Deus ex machina to defeat someone who can stop the life out of her.

Seriously Rinoa gets her stuff wrecked.

Ganon turned a world to darkness with the full Triforce. Ganon never TK'd a castle. His castle floated with magic and when he was defeated as Ganondorf, he tried to collapse his castle on Link as a desperate attempt to stop him.

And yes, he's getting beat by a girl who can sprout wings and toss magic like a psychotic wizard.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Ganon turned a world to darkness with the full Triforce. Ganon never TK'd a castle. His castle floated with magic and when he was defeated as Ganondorf, he tried to collapse his castle on Link as a desperate attempt to stop him.

And yes, he's getting beat by a girl who can sprout wings and toss magic like a psychotic wizard.

None of that magic is going to hurt, sadly. [SPOILERS AGAIN] Midna was using an ancient dark power that was greatly feared and extremely powerful and it didn't even scratch him. [SPOILERS END]

Rinoa's spells aren't going to do crap. Her friggin dog is stronger than she is.

As for Ganon being lower in power from Adel, there is simply nothing to suggest this. You say, well, GF's couldn't stop her. But your are presupposing that GFs COULD stop Ganon. Where is your evidence? What makes you think that if Ganon was placed in Adel's shoes, he wouldn't be able to do the same or better? You CAN'T provide evidence for that, thus you can't make the claim the Adel is above Ganon. You just can't.

Then you say that Ganon was sealed by the sages, and the FF8 party is stronger than the sages, thus they are stronger than Ganon. But again, that's just not true. The sages aren't warriors. They don't fight, otherwise Zelda should have joined the fray. That doesn't mean they aren't powerful. I could be a wicked powerful white mage and know nothing but healing spells.

The sages aren't stronger than Ganon, they simply possess the ability to counter some of his magic and seal him away when they all work together. None of the FF8 party can do that. None.

They are different.

Then you said that the Megaton Hammer and Arrows hurt him, thus he is weak, which again, isn't true. They did not possess the power to defeat Ganon. They were a quick fix to by some time to get the Master Sword back and that was it. That doesn't mean Ganon feels no pain. If he pricks himself on a thorn, he probably still goes "ow" but those weapons aren't enough to do any lethal damage. Only stun him temporarily.

Also, Ultimicia's Time Compression isn't anything that can be used in a verses, since it requires her to use a machine in order to pull it off. On top of that, it takes quite some preparation to perform, so it's a useless ability in a fight.

You also made the claim that there existed weapons stronger than the Master Sword in other games, but since none of the FF8 party have them, in the end it's all irrelevant.

Oh, and Holy wouldn't do anything. I see no reason whatsoever to consider it more powerful than the Light Arrows.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Same item but not the same power. Light Arrows in LttP kill Ganon but they only stun him in OoT. The Master Sword has light infusion which can defeat Twili and in LttP, it can throw weak magic blasts and gets upgrades through tempering and a Great Fairy.

Why are you using only Ocarina of Time? The items could do this in a game they were featured in, so it is still a valid feat.

Stalfos don't revive themselves when their bones are destroyed and none of them are invincible. Darknuts being living or non-living doesn't matter as they're foes encased in medieval armor and use medieval weapons.

Soldiers don't revive themselves when their bones are destroyed. Darknut armor is something close to invincible, needing to be removed or struck from behind. It being medieval doesn't mean anything. FF uses swords, too, y'know.

It does since they have faced much worse than Ganondorf.

I doubt this. Please provide evidence in the future.

He never possesses anybody across dimensions. Agahnim was just an alterego that Ganon used to deceive the king and brainwash the knights of Hyrule.

Which he used across dimensions. It wasn't his body, it was done across a dimension. Details.

Regardless, this opens up the possibility of Ganondorf attacking the party from another dimension, as he is obviously capable of it.

All three of them are capable of making genocide especially Rinoa who awakened as a sorceress and has Adel's power.

"Throughout the game Sorceresses are seen utilizing telekinesis, teleportation, telepathy, mind control, mental possession, control over the elements, the installation life into inanimate objects, projection of kinetic barriers, the capacity to phase through solid matter, and enhanced strength and endurance. Sorceresses also demonstrate the ability to alter their physical appearance to some extent."

Amazing. You just listed most of Ganondorf's abilities. Most, but not quite all. I know this was about Zelda, but...really. Not that impressive in this situation.

No it's not. There's no way OoT Link could even use the Master Sword without beating Ganon using the Megaton Hammer/Biggoron Sword. In TP, Ganon gets hurt by arrows and wolf attacks.

It is entirely possible to retrieve the Master sword without using either of those weapons. Link still has the Light Arrows during this part, and can use them. Further, those arrows do not harm him (and he just ignores them after a few shots), and Wolf Link is an empowered being.

Adel couldn't be beaten even though GFs were discovered and the power that can be drawn from them. She had to be sealed and when the FF8 party faced her, she was weakened from being in frozen state for a long time.

Irrelevant. Not stronger than Ganondorf.

There are not cutscenes of Link killing anything in one hit. It only shows finishing blows.

Which nonetheless kill/seal Ganondorf in 3 hits or less.

The arrows and Master Sword aren't that powerful in the beginning of the Zelda timeline.

Why does this matter, again? They are more powerful and are still valid.

Those students are already full-fledged mercenaries. Link in OoT had no sword training before his adventure started and took out Lizalfos.

Chosen One, Prophecy, and PIS.

Zelda is defenseless without the Light Arrows. Even with the Triforce of Wisdom, OoT Zelda couldn't stop a pair of Stalfos and TP Zelda couldn't beat a group of Twili.

Couldn't? Anyway, Zant was there for the Twilight group. Yet, Zelda passively defeated a group of monsters in Minish Cap.

Using the Megaton Hammer/Biggoron Sword brought Ganon to his knees and deactivated his fire wall.

Light Arrows.

The Light Arrows only stunned in OoT but did kill in LoZ and LttP.

The MS and LA switched roles. He had to be stunned by the Master Sword before the Arrows would even scratch his skin. In OoT, they seemed to cause him some great pain.

In OoT, Ice Arrows only made ice platforms and Fire Arrows were only capable of breaking certain objects. They don't have the same power as in WW.

I still have difficulty seeing your point about this.

Ganon is getting killed by Rinoa alone.

You still have yet to adequately explain why. Until then, no.

Ganon turned a world to darkness with the full Triforce. Ganon never TK'd a castle. His castle floated with magic and when he was defeated as Ganondorf, he tried to collapse his castle on Link as a desperate attempt to stop him.

Ganon turned the world to darkness by touching the Sacred Realm. The difference between TK and magic is nonexistent, now if he just holds them still with magic. He collapsed the castle with his last breath, and virtually no strength left.

And yes, he's getting beat by a girl who can sprout wings and toss magic like a psychotic wizard.

Prooooooooooof.

Amazing. You just listed most of Ganondorf's abilities. Most, but not quite all. I know this was about Zelda, but...really. Not that impressive in this situation.

Yeah, but she's got 5 more team-mates (and one haxxed dog) to help her out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, but she's got 5 more team-mates (and one haxxed dog) to help her out.

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Rinoa stomps Gannon while they help her out 😛

I don't even see why the idea of the FF8 party winning is being considered. They're largely featless, and many of the arguments in their favour are in fact fallacious. 😐

They have no attacks capable of bypassing Ganon's impressive durability, no way to avoid his TK, now way to survive his island busting power. Ganon wins.

They have no attacks capable of bypassing Ganon's impressive durability

What durability?

no way to avoid his TK

Angelo, or Rinoa holds him off with her own TK.

ow way to survive his island busting power.

You mean island freezing powers, iirc?

Originally posted by Nephthys
What durability?

Angelo, or Rinoa holds him off with her own TK.

You mean island freezing powers, iirc?

Is their TK capable of supporting a castle casually? No? Then no.

City freezing, island busting. Dude broke an island in Wind Waker. He's capable of city level destruction, and has shown it on many occasions.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What durability?

YouTube video

2:10

Angelo, or Rinoa holds him off with her own TK.

He could trap them in crystals or banish them to the Dark World. Plus, he's intangible.

You mean island freezing powers, iirc?

Both.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Greatfish_Isle

2:10

That was just his invincibility to anything that doesn't rhyme with Barster hoard. Which is disabled in the thread. He still gets a sword through his chest.

He could trap them in crystals or banish them to the Dark World. Plus, he's intangible.

Angelo makes them invincible to status effects or they brake the damn crystals and I don't know whether teh Dark World will do anything, does he go with them. They have methods (magic, mostly) of dealing with intangibilty.

Both.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Greatfish_Isle

Am I right in assuming that thsi was done off-screen and we have no clue of how long it took him? Heck, it could have just have been on his orders.

whoops, missed that, scream.

His durability that allows him to tank castle busting strikes unhurt, and in OoT shows him surviving 4 slashes to the face from the master sword in the hands of an incredibly strong Link.

No it doesn't, we've discussed this.

in OoT shows him surviving 4 slashes to the face from the master sword in the hands of an incredibly strong Link.

Perhaps this is toonforce, in the days before it was feasible to animate cuts and slashes. Either way could you show it to me or direct me to it?

Is their TK capable of supporting a castle casually? No? Then no.

Well, neither is his. 😬

Dude broke an island in Wind Waker.

On screen? Quantifiably?

That was just his invincibility to anything that doesn't rhyme with Barster hoard. Which is disabled in the thread. He still gets a sword through his chest.

End of OoT, four slashes from 4.5 gigajoule strength Link, holding the master sword, to his head. He survives.

Angelo makes them invincible to status effects or they brake the damn crystals and I don't know whether teh Dark World will do anything, does he go with them. They have methods (magic, mostly) of dealing with intangibilty.

Am I right in assuming that thsi was done off-screen and we have no clue of how long it took him?

The sword was already through his chest before he got the triforce of power.

End of OoT, four slashes from 4.5 gigajoule strength Link, holding the master sword, to his head. He survives

Neither of which quantifies his durability, merely his survivability.

No limit fallacy,

I know, but Angelo makes them immune to powerful and complex magic such as Apocalypse and Toad, so Ganon's gunna need a lot to punch his way through.

and I highly doubt they could escape the crystals

Becuase they have such great feats of durability?

Banishing to the gap between dimensions is basicly sealing them in an extra dimensional baggy where they may or may not die due to it being a void.

Which he only ever used once on a defeated subordinate and never again. Heck, he was off-screen at the time, it may not even have been him, he may have been using some item or object to accomplish it.

It was off screen, but it took him very little time at all.

And how do you know this?