Originally posted by TacDavey
If Holy hurts the FF8 party, than Light Arrows do. The point is, Holy is never shown to be anything powerful. Ever. Whereas the light arrows are canonly some of the strongest light weapons in the LoZ universe. Holy is just a spell, like any other, except it's element is light.
Actually, Holy is one of the strongest Spells in the game. If you say so... Then If arrows can hurt that guy, then also Magic based on Light. What makes you think that some arrows with light are more powerful than Magic based in light? Also, if Ganon is weak to those arrows, then why Zell would be weak to the same arrows? Canonically those arrows hurts that guy, but we can't say that canonically would destroy everything else. If you use the Zelda rules, then it doesn't affect other Universes. Canonically that guy is weak, Zell canonically is not.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Sin was saying that Adel is more powerful than Ganon, and offering no evidence other than "no one could stop her for a while."
Aren't you doing the same? You said that no one can stop Ganon, except the sword and some arrows.
Originally posted by TacDavey
That's not true, nor is it really relevant. The sword isn't what Ganon is using, it's simply showing how strong he is, by showing that he needs the strongest holy weapon the LoZ world has to offer in order to beat him.
And what does Ganon can use? What weapon he uses? Sword? Spear? I could say the same, Odin had Zantentsuken who kills everything in Final Fantasy VIII, still the party defeated him, that shows the party is powerful. I don't have idea who is Ganon, but I can see you are underrating Final Fantasy VIII, badly.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Drawing conclusions from given information and making stuff up are two very different things. The scene in question gives sufficient infomation for an informed conclusion. We are using what happened, your argument is based on what could have happened.Yes. It is quite clearly seen that Ganon's body disintegrated before his flaming body appeared. After the explosion, Ganondorf is back without a scrath on him. What can the party do when destroying Ganondorf's body won't put him down?
Then please stop. It looks too much like trolling.
[quote=Sin Volvagia]
And you don't know what happened in the castle. Ganondorf may not have been in the explosion.
This is a guess at best. "May not" does not invalidate the feat, nor make a proper argument. Prove that Ganondorf was not in the castle. All evidence points to the fact that Maidna struck Ganondorf and the castle exploded, and a simple "may not" will not change that.
The rest of the post is ad infinitum and completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Please, if you wish to make a claim, back it up with feats and evidence. Until this is done, the thread will continue to stagnate with the constant "no u" flying around. TacDavey, if you could stop as well, that'd be great.
The simple fact here is that Ganondorf has more feats and evidence backing him up than the FF8 party does. Ganondorf will win if this lack of argument for FF continues. [/QUOTE]
Not in this case where your simply assuming Ganon was apprently struck by something that we did not see him get hit by, in a flaming head form no less. Therefore no real feat.
Nothing hit him from what the vid shows and a flaming head wouldnt get a "scratch" and may not even be harmed assuming Midna did hit it. The party has a vast number of spells, constantly putting him down over and over would be pretty much incapacition anyway.
Its not against the rules.
You talk about guesses and yet your guessing he was still in the castle, your guessing Midna did strike, your guessing where the explosion came from in the first place, guess guess guess, like a lot of LoZ "feats".
Simple fact is Ganondorf is quite ambigious and has only a few chances to survive. Possession and possibly twilight assuming holy does not just get rid of him 🙂
Originally posted by TacDavey
Ganon's magic does more damage than Omega Weapon. Ganon is above both Adel and Ultimicia. Silver Arrows tickle Ganon.
durlaugh and you complained when I apprently played "dumb". Even with my limited FF knowledge Ganon gets crushed by Omega weapon and more importantly the silver arrows kill Ganon when hes got the most powerful object in LoZ.
Makes me wonder if any of the FF team can get their hands on some silver or own some.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
What retaliation? I didn't see any. The only attack we see is hers.
There was retaliation; it just wasn't seen. How do you think Ganondorf got those Twilight shards?
So... Totally featless? Gotcha.
Rinoa becomes immune to silence, berserk, and confusion. Also, her magic does 5x more damage. With Meteor, she's uber.
Got any feats outside vague intentions and a pile of speculation and assumption?
Go play FF8 if you don't believe me.
I see no evidence, again. GJ.
Carbuncle's Ruby Light causes Reflect.
Alexander shoots holy beams that cause massive explosions.
Eden is the strongest GF and uses one of the most damaging moves in the game (only surpassed by some Limit Breaks)
Odin slices through foes, killing them instantly.
Gilgamesh can do the same as Odin but also has Excalibur which is a holy sword.
All of them featless, unlike the light arrows/master sword, and none of them smite evil, unlike the light arrows/master sword.
Alexander is far more powerful than the Light Arrows and Master Sword.
No evidence...
Omega Weapon is the strongest enemy in FF8 behind Ultimecia (if we're not counting gameplay). Even Scan refers to it as strongest monster. It has a death spell, a light attack which is pretty much instant kill (does 9999 damage), Terra Break which is a devastating 16-hit attack, and Megiddo Flame which is capable of defeating the whole FF8 party (or at least leave them critically injured as it does 9998 damage). It also uses Meteor, Ultima, and Gravija.
As for Ultimecia, you're an idiot if you think Ganondorf has any chance against her.
The master sword is a direct failsafe to the entire triforce, as stated directly in aLttP, good job.
The Master Sword has never been shown to be uber. The closest it has ever been to that was in LttP when it was powered up by a deformed Great Fairy. Ganon was sealed away by a group of old sages with the help of Hyrulian knights who buyed them time. And this is Ganon with the full Triforce; ya know, the triangle thing you Zelda fanboys keep wanking about.
Also, Link had the master sword in LoZ, Zelda.com is on my side.
Not a good source. For one, it could've been an error. Two, the site never mentions the Magical Sword being retconned. Three, the Magical Sword still appears in rereleases of LoZ. Don't say that they wouldn't change the text of the game; in the GBA, Collector's Edition, and Virtual console, they corrected Ganon's name (originally Gannon).
Reflect, unlike Ganon, is featless. Island busting > Reflect.
Ganon never showed any island busting in any fight he's been in with Link. That's probably because it takes time for him to do so. The FF8 party is not gonna wait for him to do something.
Light arrows are the most powerful of the magic arrows, which puts them on a very high scale, above featless magic.
I can say the Light Arrows are featless too. All they can do is instantly kill weak enemies and stun Ganondorf.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Not all of them didn't. That puts the soldiers on level with SeeD. Which means SeeD really isn't all that special. neither are GFs.
Then the Galbadian army is uber 😆
Nope. Ganon wins because he is more powerful and those GFs can't hold a candle to him.
Nope, GFs win.
Ganon snacks on Holy like he snacks on cereal. Ganon smokes Alexander. Limit Breaks feel like breaking wind on him.
Holy is painful to Ganon. Ganon won't survive Alexander or Limit Breaks. A couple of slashes from the Magical Sword and a single Silver Arrow made Ganon explode.
Ganon's magic does more damage than Omega Weapon. Ganon is above both Adel and Ultimicia. Silver Arrows tickle Ganon.
Oh really?
OoT Ganondorf & Ganon
YouTube videoYouTube video
Twilight Princess Ganondorf & Ganon + Puppet Zelda
YouTube videoYouTube video
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Wind Waker Ganondorf
YouTube video
Link to the Past Ganon
YouTube video
Legend of Zelda Ganon
YouTube video
Four Swords Ganon (Ganon at his best)
YouTube video
Oracle of Ages Ganon
YouTube video
Continued from my last post:
Adel (it's worth noting that during this fight, she is weakened from being sealed for so long)
YouTube video
Omega Weapon
YouTube video
Ultimecia
YouTube video
YouTube video
Not in this case where your simply assuming Ganon was apprently struck by something that we did not see him get hit by, in a flaming head form no less. Therefore no real feat.
Then why don't we try this again?
Start at 5:49.
Fact 1- Ganondorf is in flaming head form.
Fact 2- Midna is in Fused Shadow form.
Fact 3- Midna makes an attack, causing a flash of light.
Fact 4- Hyrule Castle explodes.
Fact 5- Ganondorf reappears in humanoid/Gerudo form, completely unharmed and with a horse. He is holding the Fused Shadows.
Fact 6- Ganondorf crushes the Fused Shadows
Logical conclusion: Ganondorf blocked, tanked, or countered the attack, taking the Fused Shadows and destroying Hyrule Castle in the process.
Illogical conclusion: Ganondorf took the Fused Shadows before Midna could attack and teleported out before Midna destroyed the castle, despite her not having the Fused Shadows.
The first conclusion is supported by context and evidence, the second is not. Had Ganondorf not been in the castle, he would not have been able to take the Fused Shadows. Further, it would have to done before Midna's attack, when the cutscene clearly shows the attack starting. Ganondorf simply could not have gotten the Fused Shadows without blocking, countering, or tanking the attack.
Nothing hit him from what the vid shows and a flaming head wouldnt get a "scratch" and may not even be harmed assuming Midna did hit it. The party has a vast number of spells, constantly putting him down over and over would be pretty much incapacition anyway.
You're playing dumb again. Don't be so literal. If Midna could not hit Ganondorf, how do you suggest the party do so? Midna's attack has already been shown to be able to break a magical barrier created by Ganondorf. She wouldn't attack if she didn't think she could hit him.
Now you'll have to prove those "vast number" of spells could put Ganondorf down in the first place. Feats will be needed.
Its not against the rules.
Trolling is, and I'm sure blurring the line is frowned upon. Regardless, this is off topic, irrelevant, and I don't really care. I would just suggest refraining from things that others may view as trolling.
You talk about guesses and yet your guessing he was still in the castle, your guessing Midna did strike, your guessing where the explosion came from in the first place, guess guess guess, like a lot of LoZ "feats".
I did not guess. I logically concluded that Ganondorf must have been in the castle based on the given evidence and context of the scenes before and after the event in question. Plus, Midna did indeed strike, as it was quite clearly seen that she began an attack. Ganondorf did not take the Fused Shadows before that attack began, so he must have done it during or after. The only way this would be possible is if he was still in the castle, and responded to the attack in some way. Be it blocked, countered, or tanked, Ganondorf was still in the castle when the explosion occurred.
Simple fact is Ganondorf is quite ambigious and has only a few chances to survive. Possession and possibly twilight assuming holy does not just get rid of him 🙂
Can you support this conclusion? Holy still has little in the way of feats, while the Light Arrows disintegrate things. The best it could manage is a momentary stun, if that.
durlaugh and you complained when I apprently played "dumb". Even with my limited FF knowledge Ganon gets crushed by Omega weapon and more importantly the silver arrows kill Ganon when hes got the most powerful object in LoZ.
Limited knowledge?
I don't care about the Omega weapon. Give me a good reason the FF party manages to defeat Ganondorf.
Makes me wonder if any of the FF team can get their hands on some silver or own some.
We've gone over this before. The Silver Arrows are a highly powerful bow upgrade that can destroy most enemies in a single shot. Ganon is completely unaffected by them unless the Master Sword is used to stun him and make him vulnerable. How do you suggest the party get their hands on something like this, or even learn of it?